Author Topic: BIF - settings with D4s  (Read 14054 times)

Ilkka Nissilä

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Re: BIF - settings with D4s
« Reply #30 on: January 26, 2017, 18:24:37 »
Both dxomark and lenscore list the VR 200/2 II as a bit sharper than the VR 400/2.8. However lenscore do list the new FL 400/2.8 E as sharper than the VR 200/2 II. Practical issues such as focus, camera support etc may well have a greater impact than small (10%) differences in MTF or resolution measured in the lab. These tests do not, to my knowledge, compensate for field curvature by refocusing so any field curvature would reduce the test score.

John G

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Re: BIF - settings with D4s
« Reply #31 on: January 26, 2017, 18:54:33 »
Hi Frode
I have seen your images on my phone, will look at them on laptop later
You have great opportunities to capture great subjects.
Question everything, a satisfactory outcome will arrive.
I had been given a explanation, as to why a lack of contrast in the chosen frame will effect final subject sharpness.
When you put a single point AF on a subject and keep the subject in focus as the shutter is released, the camera is working only on information supplied from one focus point,so does mot have any confusion in how it processes the supplied capture.
In dynamic range AF the camera will track the subject using multiple focus points, what the photographer thinks is the in use focus point does not mean the camera is selecting that point.
The more there is a lack of contrast in the frame, the more the focus points will hunt, trying to find a focus, so a image can be captured that can appear soft, a image can be captured that is sharp, or the camera may retire itself from trying to AF. The more contrast between subject and backdrop the more the camera understands how to track the chosen subject.
As I have said I am working towards maximising my 400mm experience.
My explanation to you is the result of some other my own recent raised questions.
Another small thing that might be of interest to you, is using a tripod in a hide.
If the hide has a internal bench of about 800-900mm in height with the viewing hatches above the bench
A tripod can be set up with two of the legs spread to a V, left at their shortest adjustment.
The two legs can be rested on the bench with the feet resting on the wall.
The single remaining leg will have the foot on the floor. The leg can be height adjusted, until the mounting plate is horizontal. This makes a rigid support, and will usually project the objective lens slightly outside of the hide.
John Gallagher

Frode

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Re: BIF - settings with D4s
« Reply #32 on: January 26, 2017, 19:17:27 »
The 400mm 2.8 is super sharp,,, no need to compare it to other lenses or saying it's less sharp than a 200mm 2 - doesn't make sense,,, even MTF don't lie on that account, don't put the lens down.

The only way to show sharpness online is a 100% crop - Browsers up downscale uncontrollable.

Yes, I also believe that it`s "up there" with such lenses as 200 2, but I don`t get those results with it. Might be that I`ve got to send both D4s and the lens in for adjustment. Though, I still think it might be user error......like so often before  ::)

I`m not satisfied with the lens so far - I`m convinced it can perform better. Thankfully I`ve got this great society to help me :-).

I`ll try to add some 100% crops of the previously pictures within the weekend.

Oh yes, I`ll keep the lens, it`s mye "dream lens".

Frode

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Re: BIF - settings with D4s
« Reply #33 on: January 26, 2017, 19:19:57 »
The later versions of the Nikkor 400/2.8 are in terms of sharpness at least the equivalent of the 200/2 AFS. The latter, however, is not a flat-field lens like its longer sibling.

Thanks Bjørn!

That`s why I`m a bit frustrated, because I dont`t get i to perform like it obviously is capable of.

Frode

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Re: BIF - settings with D4s
« Reply #34 on: January 26, 2017, 19:24:13 »
BTW:
How much are you sharpening? The D4s has quite a strong AA filter in front of the sensor, so I found that the files needed quite a lot of sharpening for viewing on a screen,,,

You could also switch to a Fluid head :)

Hmm, interesting, Erik. Because this is something that I`ve been wondering about, but forgot to ask: do the D4s need more sharpening than, let`s say the D3s?

Samples above have got sharpening set to 3 (Standard profile) in Capture NX- D. Not extra sharpening for screen.

Frode

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Re: BIF - settings with D4s
« Reply #35 on: January 26, 2017, 19:31:28 »
Both dxomark and lenscore list the VR 200/2 II as a bit sharper than the VR 400/2.8. However lenscore do list the new FL 400/2.8 E as sharper than the VR 200/2 II. Practical issues such as focus, camera support etc may well have a greater impact than small (10%) differences in MTF or resolution measured in the lab. These tests do not, to my knowledge, compensate for field curvature by refocusing so any field curvature would reduce the test score.

Thanks Ilkka!

I`m hoping (and think) it`s the "operator" and not the gear  :).

Frode

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Re: BIF - settings with D4s
« Reply #36 on: January 26, 2017, 19:49:10 »
Hi Frode
I have seen your images on my phone, will look at them on laptop later
You have great opportunities to capture great subjects.
Question everything, a satisfactory outcome will arrive.
I had been given a explanation, as to why a lack of contrast in the chosen frame will effect final subject sharpness.
When you put a single point AF on a subject and keep the subject in focus as the shutter is released, the camera is working only on information supplied from one focus point,so does mot have any confusion in how it processes the supplied capture.
In dynamic range AF the camera will track the subject using multiple focus points, what the photographer thinks is the in use focus point does not mean the camera is selecting that point.
The more there is a lack of contrast in the frame, the more the focus points will hunt, trying to find a focus, so a image can be captured that can appear soft, a image can be captured that is sharp, or the camera may retire itself from trying to AF. The more contrast between subject and backdrop the more the camera understands how to track the chosen subject.
As I have said I am working towards maximising my 400mm experience.
My explanation to you is the result of some other my own recent raised questions.
Another small thing that might be of interest to you, is using a tripod in a hide.
If the hide has a internal bench of about 800-900mm in height with the viewing hatches above the bench
A tripod can be set up with two of the legs spread to a V, left at their shortest adjustment.
The two legs can be rested on the bench with the feet resting on the wall.
The single remaining leg will have the foot on the floor. The leg can be height adjusted, until the mounting plate is horizontal. This makes a rigid support, and will usually project the objective lens slightly outside of the hide.

Thanks again, John!

It seems I`ve got to do some seriously testing regarding AF- settings/modes.

I`ll look into your suggestion regarding hide/tripod.

Appreciate your effort  :).


Erik Lund

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Re: BIF - settings with D4s
« Reply #37 on: January 26, 2017, 22:29:04 »
Both dxomark and lenscore list the VR 200/2 II as a bit sharper than the VR 400/2.8. However lenscore do list the new FL 400/2.8 E as sharper than the VR 200/2 II. ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

This is splitting hairs, I sure hope everybody understands this,,, There are so many variables that can go either way.
Erik Lund

Erik Lund

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Re: BIF - settings with D4s
« Reply #38 on: January 26, 2017, 22:37:02 »
,,,,,
Samples above have got sharpening set to 3 (Standard profile) in Capture NX- D. Not extra sharpening for screen.

You should really look into this since I think we have the reason for the softness you see. You need to actively use sharpening in PP for these to make them shine, search for sharpening in your preferred software on how to do it best, then go have a try, always look at 100% to see the effect fully.

I use Photoshop for sharpening, D3 or D4 doesn't matter so much; Sharpening is not a default setting! You have to work at it.

Also, did you read the dept of focus part?,,, it is much more narrow on the super sharp lenses that ordinary glass, the transition from sharp to unsharp is very abrupt!

Haze and or dust also come into play for these long distances

Erik Lund

Frode

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Re: BIF - settings with D4s
« Reply #39 on: January 27, 2017, 00:35:34 »
Same pictures, only 100% crop. Sharpened in adobe camera raw.

Frode

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Re: BIF - settings with D4s
« Reply #40 on: January 27, 2017, 00:36:06 »
2/3

Frode

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Re: BIF - settings with D4s
« Reply #41 on: January 27, 2017, 00:37:18 »
3/3

Frode

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Re: BIF - settings with D4s
« Reply #42 on: January 27, 2017, 00:38:33 »
Last one :-).

bobfriedman

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Re: BIF - settings with D4s
« Reply #43 on: January 27, 2017, 00:39:47 »
BIF settings: 1/3200s f/8 auto-iso, aperture priority, 9pt center AFC or 25pt center AFC for newer cams D5, etc.. handheld is preferable, center weighted average metering.

Robert L Friedman, Massachusetts, USA
www.pbase.com/bobfriedman

Erik Lund

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Re: BIF - settings with D4s
« Reply #44 on: January 27, 2017, 10:02:17 »
BIF settings: 1/3200s f/8 auto-iso, aperture priority, 9pt center AFC or 25pt center AFC for newer cams D5, etc.. handheld is preferable, center weighted average metering.

Well you have often demonstrated that these settings work!

And this would remove motion blur and enable adequate depth of field which seems to be what's missing, I'm sure there is even more to get from working even more with the RAW file in PP
Erik Lund