Debating Sony and Fuji for APS-C non-Nikon system

[RobOK]

I have been continuing to explore my camera needs, with the understanding that the cameras I have are great and I am grateful that I get to contemplate a new camera. I tend to think of four size classes of gear: iPhone, pocket camera (Sony RX-100), small/medium size - not pocketable (currently Sony NEX-7), and large (Nikon Df). To me, size is important as I am often on the run, or traveling, and having different options makes me more likely to take a camera.

My NEX-7 is showing its age both physically and occasional operation glitches so I have been looking to replace it. I have been trying out three options (with some ergonomic, not imaging notes):

• Sony A6500 - this is most similar to NEX-7 and thus feels comfortable. It is a dense camera, 453 g vs 400 g in the same body size and shape. Makes it feel solid, but heavy. Benefit of using my existing lenses, but those lenses are a mixed bag. Unfortunately, Sony dropped the much-loved dual control dials on top for a "mode" dial. Sigh.
• Fuji X-Pro2 - I wanted to love this one, everyone says it has "soul". It's a flat slab style (Rangefinder) that I found hard to hold (frankly, I sometimes feel the same about my Df). The hybrid view finder is innovative for sure, but I am not sure I would take to it over time. Close up shots have a strong parallax effect - the lines on the screen show you this, but it is still odd for me. ISO button has classic but awkward button within a button.
• Fuji X-T2 - I thought I would like this least due to the faux-SLR styling, but the model I am testing is Graphite Silver and looks really good. The buttons are where I want them and it feels comfortable. It reminds me much of the Df, it is almost a mini-Df with better top controls (for me). I am leaning towards this one. In terms of size, it is bigger than the NEX-7 but smaller than the Df. I would like it to be smaller yet, maybe like the Fuji X-E2 but that model has not been updated yet.

Anyway, I know there is a variety of opinions on camera size but thought I would throw out some of my current thoughts,

Cheers,
Rob.

[BW]

I have used a variety of cameras and I think that Df, Leica M and Fuji x-pro are all great if you want optical viewfinders (hybrid on the fuji) combined with a small package. That off course, depends on what lens you choose. The two first alternatives give you the "advantage" of a full frame sensor and ok battery life. That are all nice to carry around without straining your neck. There are many EVF-alternatives which is smaller, but I personally have never found something as good as the Df as a allround camera. There are grips available if you want something to hold on to, but then again, weight and size increases. Just my two cents.
I now see that you are after a APS-C system Then I would go for the D500. Its light and versatile, has a good grip, outstanding AF, good batterylife, and excellent ISO performance. Whats not to like

[PeterN]

I recently travelled with the D750 and the 24 1.8G, 35 1.8G and 58mm 1.4g lenses. I did not notice a considerable weight difference from my days with the X-T1. To me, the lenses (plus the rest) are determining factors rather than the camera. Before switching back to Nikon I did some weight comparisons and was ready to use 1.8 instead of 1.4 lenses. These lenses still have a slight or at least comparable DoF compared to the fuji 1.2 and 1.4 lenses,
Having said that, I am thinking about adding a Leica Q, sony Rx1r ii, or fuji x-t20 with 18-55 zoom when I want to travel with a small package.
In addition, the Fuji X-T2 is an attractive option for travel photographers. but the Df is as well.

[gryphon1911]

I have used a variety of cameras and I think that Df, Leica M and Fuji x-pro are all great if you want optical viewfinders (hybrid on the fuji) combined with a small package. That off course, depends on what lens you choose. The two first alternatives give you the "advantage" of a full frame sensor and ok battery life. That are all nice to carry around without straining your neck. There are many EVF-alternatives which is smaller, but I personally have never found something as good as the Df as a allround camera. There are grips available if you want something to hold on to, but then again, weight and size increases. Just my two cents.

RobOK,

I went through something similar a while back.  I put the Fuji/m43 head to head, and despite what some say - m43 is a very capable system and I shoot with it all the way up to ISO 6400.
The prime lenses and pro zooms are very good glass.

Coming from a Nikon background(I still shoot both systems, have a Df and love it), the Olympus made more sense from an ergonomics and system speed/performance stand point.
Just know that the m43 systems C-AF is very poor with cameras that do not have PDAF (only the EM1 series currently have that) or Panasonics DFD system.  If that is a need for you in your mirrorless kit, then your options in bodies are going to be a little more limited.

The Oly OMD EM5.2 and EM10.2 are very capable "SLR" styled bodies, while the Olympus PEN-F is a great rangefinder styled body and gives me the same "feels" that the Df does when in use.

Many of these images from an anime convention were taken with EM1 Mark1 and MarkII available light with what many would consider high ISO - between ISO 2000 and 6400.
http://www.visualohio.com/2017/01/ohayocon-2017.html

I've also expressed my thoughts in a more detailed level about my decision to go m43 over Fuji in this post:
http://bestlightphoto.blogspot.com/2014/03/fuji-x100s-fuji-x-t1-olympus-om-d-em-5.html

Here are some of my reviews of the Oly bodies as well that you might find interesting
EM1 Mark II
http://bestlightphoto.blogspot.com/2016/12/olympus-o-md-em-1-mark-ii-review-first.html
http://bestlightphoto.blogspot.com/2016/12/olympus-om-d-em-1-mark-ii-4k-video-and.html

EM5 Mark II
http://bestlightphoto.blogspot.com/2015/07/olympus-omd-em5-mark-ii-gear-review.html

Hope this might help you a bit...or it might possibly make your decision that much harder.  As others have said, whichever way you go, just make sure to handle the cameras with different lenses on them and see what you gel with and what makes the most sense for you.

[RobOK]

I recently travelled with the D750 and the 24 1.8G, 35 1.8G and 58mm 1.4g lenses. I did not notice a considerable weight difference from my days with the X-T1. To me, the lenses (plus the rest) are determining factors rather than the camera. Before switching back to Nikon I did some weight comparisons and was ready to use 1.8 instead of 1.4 lenses. These lenses still have a slight or at least comparable DoF compared to the fuji 1.2 and 1.4 lenses,
Having said that, I am thinking about adding a Leica Q, sony Rx1r ii, or fuji x-t20 with 18-55 zoom when I want to travel with a small package.
In addition, the Fuji X-T2 is an attractive option for travel photographers. but the Df is as well.

These are tough tradeoffs. I am not trying to pick a Df replacement, but rather a smaller alternate kit. The X-T2 plus a zoom gets to be pretty big and the Df with a prime can be pretty small, although the only prime I use frequently is the 58 1.4 which is not so small. Most often I have the 24-120 AF-S which makes the Df heavy. As you said the lens selection has a big impact on size/weight.  I don't have a 35mm for the Df, just 20 1.8 AF-S, 28 2.8 AF-D, 50 1.8 AF-S, 85 1.8 AF-S, and 105 2.8 AF-S and a 105 Ai-S.

I'll continue to evaluate...
Rob.

[RobOK]

I have been continuing to explore my camera needs, with the understanding that the cameras I have are great and I am grateful that I get to contemplate a new camera. I tend to think of four size classes of gear: iPhone, pocket camera (Sony RX-100), small/medium size - not pocketable (currently Sony NEX-7), and large (Nikon Df). To me, size is important as I am often on the run, or traveling, and having different options makes me more likely to take a camera.

My NEX-7 is showing its age both physically and occasional operation glitches so I have been looking to replace it. I have been trying out three options (with some ergonomic, not imaging notes):

• Sony A6500 - this is most similar to NEX-7 and thus feels comfortable. It is a dense camera, 453 g vs 400 g in the same body size and shape. Makes it feel solid, but heavy. Benefit of using my existing lenses, but those lenses are a mixed bag. Unfortunately, Sony dropped the much-loved dual control dials on top for a "mode" dial. Sigh.
• Fuji X-Pro2 - I wanted to love this one, everyone says it has "soul". It's a flat slab style (Rangefinder) that I found hard to hold (frankly, I sometimes feel the same about my Df). The hybrid view finder is innovative for sure, but I am not sure I would take to it over time. Close up shots have a strong parallax effect - the lines on the screen show you this, but it is still odd for me. ISO button has classic but awkward button within a button.
• Fuji X-T2 - I thought I would like this least due to the faux-SLR styling, but the model I am testing is Graphite Silver and looks really good. The buttons are where I want them and it feels comfortable. It reminds me much of the Df, it is almost a mini-Df with better top controls (for me). I am leaning towards this one. In terms of size, it is bigger than the NEX-7 but smaller than the Df. I would like it to be smaller yet, maybe like the Fuji X-E2 but that model has not been updated yet.

Anyway, I know there is a variety of opinions on camera size but thought I would throw out some of my current thoughts,

Cheers,
Rob.

I finished this chapter of the smaller camera replacement, i.e., bigger than pocket-size but smaller than full frame. I ended up with the Sony A6500 and not either of the Fuji. I can to this for several reasons:
* when I used the A6500 my muscle memory kicked in and it feels natural and comfortable (although only two primary control wheels vs. the NEX-7)
* I have lenses and really like the Sony/Zeiss 24-70 f/4
* at this point in time, i did not want a new "system" and did not want to buy a lot more lenses for Fuji
* the A6500 is super responsive and fast, I have a lot to learn about its focus system and other controls
* the Sony with lenses are smaller than Fuji and the lenses I would have gotten

I'm excited with the choice and it supports my goal of taking more artistic (vs. family and work events) shots this year, and posting same here whether from the Sony or the Df.

I am also working on a more complete set of primes to make my Df more portable and take it out more.

Maybe a Fuji X100F will be in my future, but for now no Fuji!

Cheers,
Rob.

[Jack Dahlgren]

I am also working on a more complete set of primes to make my Df more portable and take it out more.

Cheers,
Rob.

Rob,

If you have 20mm, 28mm, 50mm, 58mm, 85mm, 105mm primes, that is sufficient. Throw the 28 or the 50 on and go.

[RobOK]

Rob,

If you have 20mm, 28mm, 50mm, 58mm, 85mm, 105mm primes, that is sufficient. Throw the 28 or the 50 on and go.

Yes Jack, sometimes we have to just shoot more with the gear we have!  Thanks for the encouragement!