Debating Sony and Fuji for APS-C non-Nikon system

[RobOK]

I'm an enthusiast photographer, mostly travel, event, and portraits going on in my life. I started my enthusiasm with photography with Nikon D70, D300, and for the past four years full frame Nikon Df. All of which I have totally loved and I continue to use the Df. I use Manual mode to set Aperture and Shutter and mostly in Auto ISO, so manual settings with automatic exposure adjusted with Exp Comp.  The only time the Df lets me down is in very low light focusing situations (which is ironic as the sensor is great in that scenario). And sometimes the full frame kit is too much to carry and too "in your face" for my social situations.

In parallel, I have used a Sony NEX-7 as a smaller travel setup and have been mostly happy but the NEX-7 body is showing its age, both in capabilities and wear and tear.  Since I have some Sony E lens a natural progression from NEX-7 is the A6300 or new A6500. Two problems, I don't get as "excited" using the Sony and for me the experience of photography is a big part of it. Second, after the NEX-7, in the APS-C range Sony stopped having two control knobs forcing menu mode for one of the two main controls. (This is same for Nikon D5500 which my daughter has and I have available).

So now I am thinking Fuji as my smaller kit. I have been attracted to Fuji X-T2 for a while and I think some members here have posted favorably. The Fuji kit would be bigger than Sony and for this setup, travel size/weight/bulk is a key factor.

Here is a size comparison for cameras in the discussion: http://camerasize.com/compact/#691.445,679.359,580.111,495.331,ha,t

I'm not in any particular hurry, so I am considering different options. If I stopped with Sony I would sell and/or give away to family.

I realize a rambling post, I'm open to random thoughts in return. Any input from Fuji users as how "portable" of a kit it ends up being?  With either Sony or Fuji I would have a small camera bag, so from that sense they are close.

Thanks,
Rob.

[rosko]

Hi Rob !

I have got similar feelings as I own the Df (with a fair amount of ''F'' mount lenses) and I bought a sony NEX5 R few years ago as I needed a non vibrating shutter to take macro shots.

Finally, the interface is so complicated (too many menus) is a nightmare to find the settings you need (while I admit is a very good camera). I gave it to my partner and use it now occasionally (with old M42 lenses).

So, fuji came in mind. I thought about a X-pro 1 as the price went down after the launch of the new  X-pro 2.

In between, I saw the Olympus OMD range with one with the feature of possible focus staking. (OMD em5 markII)

The main difficulty, is the vast choice of cameras !

I am not yet decided...

[Bjørn Rørslett]

On a general note, the handling of the camera and the manner in which it interfaces with your shooting habits are decisive factors in the longer run. Thus, whatever you narrow your choices to, do yourself a big favour and try out the gear in a nearby shop.

[rosko]

Thus, whatever you narrow your choices to, do yourself a big favour and try out the gear in a nearby shop.

For sure ! That is what I'll firmly do.

BTW, a Nikon gear get together is a fantastic way to try different gear.

[RobOK]

On a general note, the handling of the camera and the manner in which it interfaces with your shooting habits are decisive factors in the longer run. Thus, whatever you narrow your choices to, do yourself a big favour and try out the gear in a nearby shop.

I agree completely which is why I am skeptical of the Sony and why i mentioned my shooting style. I like knobs!

[bjornthun]

The Sony A6x00 cameras only have one wheel on the top rear and one dial at the rear of the camera, which is too few, in my opinion. The full frame A7 series have a dial at the rear and a dedicated EV comp whell and a main and sub command dial, actotal of four, which gives a very satisfactory experience. The wheels and dials are programmable. The number of wheels available make the Sony A7 full frame series much better cameras than the A6x00 cameras. Thus, if you go for Sony, you should go full frame. I use Sony full frame A7 and A7 II, and I'm very happy with my choice. The presense of more wheels and buttons make all the difference to the APS-C cameras. The Sony APS-C bodies are not much smaller than the full frame A7 series of cameras, with the biggest difference being the film SLR like lump for the viewfinder.

There are several programmable buttons and some lenses have a focus hold button that can be programmed for other purposes. The Fn button gives access to a quick menu that is also customizable.

In general the Sony user interface is customizable and computer oriented. If you're old school, Fujifilm may be a better choice with its very analogue user interface, somewhat resembling a manual focus film SLR.

The downside to Fujifilm is the absense of IBIS, in body stabilization. The Sony A6500 as well as A7II, A7RII have got IBIS.

Native AF lenses
The selection of native lenses for full frame range from 16mm to 300mm, with 16-35mm (10mm rectilinear MF wide angle) to a 70-300mm telezoom at each end. If you require supertele lenses, you need to use adapted lenses. (Since you have Nikon, stay with Nikon for supertele lenses.) The lens selection for full frame is better than for APS-C, and the lens programme for full frame is much better thought out. Sony's lenses range from the 16-35/4 to the 70-300mm tele zoom and Sony, Zeiss and Samyang AF primes from 14/2.8 to 90/2.8 macro.

Native MF lenses
If you're into manual focus, Zeiss and Voigtländer offer some nice full frame option with electronic integration, Voigtländer 10/5.6, 12/5.6, 15/4.5 (all three are rectilinear WAs) and Zeiss 21/2.8, 35/2, 50/2, 85/2.4. Cosina has announced the Voigtländer 65mm f/2 Macro Apo Lanthar as well. The MF lenses come with old school mechanical aperture and focus rings, and EXIF as well as aperture settings are communicated, much like chipped Nikon MF lenses.

Adapted lenses
Canon EF and Sony A mount (DSLR) lenses can be adapted to Sony E mount with full AF, EXIF and exposure automation. Nikon lenses can be used with mechanical adapters. I advice against trying any smart adapters for Nikon lenses at this point, due to reports of these cheap  (Chinese) adapters destroying Sony cameras. Only Metabones IV T for Canon EF lenses and Sigma MC-11 for Canon mount lenses should be used, if a smart adapter is required. For Fujifilm there are no smart adapters.

[pluton]

If you like the control philosophy of the Df, then the Fuji XT cameras make a lot of sense.

[Erik Lund]

I would by far rate image quality and variety of available lenses much higher.

The Df is extremely capable of low light AF, don't see how you should be able to buy something better - I would advise to keep the Df and add some compact low light lenses.

Personally I shoot Leica M9 if I need to be discrete,,, not easy in my size btw, discrete,,, The Leica SL is another option,,, Yes I know they are expensive but you didn't mention price level but that is what I would consider if you want better focus in extreme low light than the Df.

[bjornthun]

Leica M9 is nice and the viewfinder works well. Focusing is precise as well, if well calibrated.

There are also quite a few used lens options for the Leica M mount and lenses from Voigtländer and Zeiss to choose from as well, so it doesn't have to be horribly expensive to start a fresh M system. A Leica 50/2 is for all practical purposes as small as it gets and it's full frame.

[RobOK]

Thanks for your thoughts Erik!

I would by far rate image quality and variety of available lenses much higher.

Agree, maybe some of my frustration is the Sony lenses for APS-C. Everyone raves about the Fuji glass and I am probably getting caught up in the internet buzz a bit about the Fuji.

The Df is extremely capable of low light AF, don't see how you should be able to buy something better - I would advise to keep the Df and add some compact low light lenses.

I was coming off of a social event that was granted in a pretty dark room, so probably since I think so much of the Df, my expectations were too high. I had two lenses, the 58mm f/1.4 and the 24-120 f/4.  It was a fast moving event and I have not looked back closely at my settings but I had a lot of focus hunting. I'm sure I'm not the best at this, but this is not the first time and I know others have had the Df hunt on focus.

My impression is the Leica is a bit beyond my financial range, but in fairness have not investigated... yet!

Any other Fuji shooters out there to chime in? (I have read the other couple threads)

Thanks all,
Rob.

[Erik Lund]

You just need to put on a 28-70mm 2.8 AFS or 24-70mm 2.8 AFS - You will be blown away by the AF speed! I promise.

[RobOK]

Hi Rob !

I have got similar feelings as I own the Df (with a fair amount of ''F'' mount lenses) and I bought a sony NEX5 R few years ago as I needed a non vibrating shutter to take macro shots.

Finally, the interface is so complicated (too many menus) is a nightmare to find the settings you need (while I admit is a very good camera). I gave it to my partner and use it now occasionally (with old M42 lenses).

So, fuji came in mind. I thought about a X-pro 1 as the price went down after the launch of the new  X-pro 2.

In between, I saw the Olympus OMD range with one with the feature of possible focus staking. (OMD em5 markII)

The main difficulty, is the vast choice of cameras !

I am not yet decided...

So what cameras are you looking at.... I would be curious to hear!

[bjornthun]

Thanks for your thoughts Erik!
Agree, maybe some of my frustration is the Sony lenses for APS-C. Everyone raves about the Fuji glass and I am probably getting caught up in the internet buzz a bit about the ...

My impression is the Leica is a bit beyond my financial range, but in fairness have not investigated... yet!

Thanks all,
Rob.

As I said anout Sony, if you go that route, you have to go full frame to get good lenses and a sensible selection of focal lengths.

[rosko]

So what cameras are you looking at.... I would be curious to hear!

I'll probably go for Fuji as they are attractive prices in the second hand market.

Olympus is tempting but as Pluton pointed out, Fuji is closer to Df and I am suspicious about the Olly'small sensor' size ( but it can be a figment of my imagination... ).

I any case I want to take my time to choose and handle some cams first.

[RobOK]

As I said anout Sony, if you go that route, you have to go full frame to get good lenses and a sensible selection of focal lengths.

The Sony FF is tempting, but then their lens sizes bring you back to full DSLR size (or at least up to Df size). Sony is just not showing the love for the E mount lenses (i think we agree).  If I was totally dropping DSLR, I would strongly consider Sony FF, but as a more nimble secondary/travel kit the Sony FE is too big and heavy (with lenses).