Author Topic: Taking apart the AF-S 105 1.4  (Read 9899 times)

rosko

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Re: Taking apart the AF-S 105 1.4
« Reply #15 on: December 07, 2016, 14:33:38 »
No wonder why these new lenses are so expensive... :)

So delicate, so fragile !

Planned obsolescence has now reached photographic gear.

What next ? Probably optical plastic instead glass. Or magnetic field, already used in microscopy.

I love my AI/AIS lenses even more... 8)

Francis Devrainne

Ilkka Nissilä

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Re: Taking apart the AF-S 105 1.4
« Reply #16 on: December 07, 2016, 14:42:23 »
What is fragile about these lenses? I don't see it.

Plastic gears are better than metal gears in at least one respect: metal gears make a louder sound when operating. A shared motor across lenses instead of a ring SWM which (as far as I know) is unique to each lens type makes some sense in lenses which are made in small numbers (such as most f/1.4 primes) to avoid the problem of parts running out. I have understood that the ring type SWM motors can stop functioning and not only is the motor expensive, it may be that there are no replacement motors left for some lens types. Many machine shops can make replacement gears from plastic (or metal). A ring type SWM is something that I doubt that many technicians could make without help from the original manufacturer. If Nikon is smart, they use the same motor in most of these non-ring-SWM lenses so that a large parts supply can be manufactured for the lens pool.

Personally I'm happy with the 105/1.4's optics, its handling, and focusing. If anything it is a little on the too sharp side for my taste, and I kind of miss the look of the 85/1.4D AF but I don't miss the less precise and more noisy AF of that lens (it was good as body driven AF lenses go, but not as good as AF-S lenses in precision). I felt that stopping down to f/1.8 was mandatory to have a reasonable chance of a high percentage of images in focus with the 85/1.4D. AF-S has improved my chances of getting correct focus wide open greatly (especially when making head shots of subjects who wear eyeglasses), although with some cameras (my old D800) there were issues such as distance dependent focus error (affecting lenses independently of drive solution).  Those problems are now in the past and I'm pleased with the way Nikon autofocus has been improved in the last few years. Fine tuning is still needed in many cases but at least I can live with one fine tuning setting for the whole life of the lens and camera combination, which is not something I could say when using the D800.

I suspect the f/1.4 AF-S nano coated gold ring lenses probably are more durable than some of the f/2.8 zooms which are very complex and fairly easily damaged, at least the 24-70 G was. The E version seems better built but I have not mishandled it (knocking wood) to find out.

Bjørn Rørslett

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Re: Taking apart the AF-S 105 1.4
« Reply #17 on: December 07, 2016, 16:20:58 »
...

What next ? Probably optical plastic instead glass.  ...


Moulded plastic elements have a long history in the making of Nikkors. They were initially used for aspherical elements in the inner parts of the optical assembly, where they would be protected from external damage. For example, the first 28-70/3.5-4.5.

Quote
I love my AI/AIS lenses even more... 8)

We can agree on that. The tactile feeling is something on its own.

Frank Fremerey

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Re: Taking apart the AF-S 105 1.4
« Reply #18 on: December 07, 2016, 19:34:05 »
If manufacturers started offering leasing, my finances would be in trouble! 😂

I would certainly have less equipment at any gioven point if it was not my own but a leased & changable. Currently I am to sell of some stuff on ebay, but meh, I am not in the mood for the fuzz, have bigger fish to fry.
You are out there. You and your camera. You can shoot or not shoot as you please. Discover the world, Your world. Show it to us. Or we might never see it.

Me: https://youpic.com/photographer/frankfremerey/

John Koerner

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Re: Taking apart the AF-S 105 1.4
« Reply #19 on: December 11, 2016, 05:49:26 »
The undeniable fact is that the 105/1.4 E is a stellar performer in optical terms. Whether it is built to last remains to be seen.

Agreed.

I think the author wrote the article more for self-flagellation ("look at me") purposes than to say anything truly useful.

If he were a true expert in lens craftsmanship, he'd be making the best lenses in the world ... not unscrewing them, confirming that it's basically a well-made, solid lens ... but writing a semi-speculative "opinion" about it ... for no other purpose that to stir the pot and get hits on his page.

bobfriedman

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Re: Taking apart the AF-S 105 1.4
« Reply #20 on: December 11, 2016, 23:06:48 »
I think the author wrote the article more for self-flagellation ("look at me") purposes than to say anything truly useful.

what???... i found it quite interesting and educational.. i am glad he posted the link.
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Mongo

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Re: Taking apart the AF-S 105 1.4
« Reply #21 on: December 12, 2016, 05:50:10 »
Some who have this lens may well be happy with it at this time. However, that is not the issue.

Mongo is glad the article was written. It is informative in that it tells us things we might otherwise never have imagined to be the case with a product at this touted level. If nothing else, it got Nikon to correct some of its inaccurate marketing/publicity about the lens.

Mongo cannot entirely agree with Bjorn’s comment that marketers don’t have a clue about what they are marketing. Yes, they may have no clue but it should be their business to get enough of a clue to meaningfully and accurately write about the product they are promoting. In any event, even if they do not, there is no question in Mongo’s mind that it is the supreme obligation of Nikon to carefully vet and approve all written promotions about their products BEFORE they are published. Not to do so could be seen as incompetent or worse; as having reckless disregard for whether or not representations about its products are accurate and truthful.

One cannot help but gain the impression that Nikon keeps shooting itself in the foot and that it has long ago run out of feet.

After the numerous disappointments in new Nikon gear, Mongo will now not buy any in future until they are no longer considered “new” products and have been very tried and tested in the field by others over a lengthy period.

Recently had to have parts replaced on now 12 month old 200-500mm (will post separately). Sometimes even 12 months is not enough to test a product for weaknesses.

stenrasmussen

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Re: Taking apart the AF-S 105 1.4
« Reply #22 on: December 12, 2016, 09:16:11 »
Agreed.

I think the author wrote the article more for self-flagellation ("look at me") purposes than to say anything truly useful.

If he were a true expert in lens craftsmanship, he'd be making the best lenses in the world ... not unscrewing them, confirming that it's basically a well-made, solid lens ... but writing a semi-speculative "opinion" about it ... for no other purpose that to stir the pot and get hits on his page.

I don't see Roger to be the "look at me" type. He certainly knows the ins and outs of lenses (due to his Lens Rentals business) and he has the advantage to have access to both many brands and samples of each lens. He shares his findings and they are IMO very educational. 

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Re: Taking apart the AF-S 105 1.4
« Reply #23 on: December 12, 2016, 09:17:34 »
Agreed.

I think the author wrote the article more for self-flagellation ("look at me") purposes than to say anything truly useful.

If he were a true expert in lens craftsmanship, he'd be making the best lenses in the world ... not unscrewing them, confirming that it's basically a well-made, solid lens ... but writing a semi-speculative "opinion" about it ... for no other purpose that to stir the pot and get hits on his page.

Everybody that read the blog is aware that Roger is promoting his business. He is about the only reviewer/tester that takes the items apart and he does that because it's his business to do so.

He uncovers a lot of things by doing so and shares it for free.

I find his efforts highly valuable for the community and on a extremely high technical and thorough level.

Moderator comment: As a moderator I feel inclined to move your post out of this thread to our Back Storage but I will leave it here for all to see - Your negative outbursts against, in this case Roger, is out of conformity with our site guidelines.

Private comment: I would be embarrassed if we allow posts like this on our site
Erik Lund

Ilkka Nissilä

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Re: Taking apart the AF-S 105 1.4
« Reply #24 on: December 12, 2016, 11:29:07 »
Roger's testing is interesting especially because he often shows sample variability in the measured MTF.

I can also see the motivation for the take-apart pieces. He needs to understand the construction of lenses to be able to identify problems in rented gear and how best to rectify them. However, I don't think evaluating the durability of something just by looking at it and taking it apart is going to give the full story; only time can tell which solutions are durable and rugged over long periods of time. Thus I would not read too much into this.

It is embarressing that early information from Nikon suggested a ring SWM however, what matters is if the shots are in focus or not, and in this respect the 105/1.4 excels. Roger notes "The care taken to engineer a smooth, accurate focusing feel is very evident. " " Its focusing system is still excellent and accurate, no matter what kind of motor is driving it. " "Nikon lenses are just as reliable as anyone else’s."

Although it is not an AF speed demon, the in-focus rate with the D5 has been excellent.

If I have any complaint about the lens, it's that I would have preferred a bit more modest f/2 version for compactness and probably the swirly bokeh could have been avoided. However, the consistently high quality of the images makes my complaint not so severe. I do like the lens, although I think it's a bit excessive on the specifications. I do take advantage of the f/1.4 aperture and it lets me often shoot at ISO 2000 to 3200 instead of 4000 to 6400 or worse, in indoor available light (and outdoor night light) situations. Because it's so well corrected, and because of the high accuracy of the autofocus, the images can be cropped and they are still sharp enough so that I don't notice that I have in fact cropped the images, in the final results. Thus I may be able to use the 105/1.4 in place of a 70-200 when the light is so low that this is advantageous. However, for outdoor travel use I think a 105/2 would have been nicer.

When my 24-70/2.8 G (uneven stiffness of the zoom, a mark on front element, due to dropping) and 70-200/4 G (faulty VR system) needed repairs, the solution proposed in both cases was to replace the entire inside lens barrel including optics, focus motor etc. and insert it as one piece into the old lens's outer chassis. This has got to be really expensive for Nikon. I can understand that in a complex zoom lens, this may be the most practical solution, but I would really think they need to think about how to replace individual faulty components on the lens without replacing everything. But they must understand the economics of repair much better than I do.

Erik Lund

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Re: Taking apart the AF-S 105 1.4
« Reply #25 on: December 12, 2016, 11:38:38 »
The part with the Ring- Type SWM must have been 'lost in translation' or something like that at Nikon, at least I hope so,,, yes embarrassing indeed.
Erik Lund

Jacques

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Re: Taking apart the AF-S 105 1.4
« Reply #26 on: December 12, 2016, 15:09:00 »
I will probably be considered rightly as an ' ignoramus ' regarding the technical aspects of lens design and interior workings of a lens, I bought my 105 on the basis of focal length and aperture, the results I obtain I consider to be completely satisfactory. If I had read it had a xxx type of af motor as opposed to yyy type or it had x amount of lens elements in y amount of groups it would have had no effect on my purchase intention, I have always tried to put the equipment I am using at the back of my mind and to give my full attention to the subject matter in front of the camera.
A.Jacks

Roland Vink

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Re: Taking apart the AF-S 105 1.4
« Reply #27 on: December 12, 2016, 20:33:24 »
If I have any complaint about the lens, it's that I would have preferred a bit more modest f/2 version for compactness and probably the swirly bokeh could have been avoided
I read a lot of comments about the swirly bokeh, does it go away if the lens is stopped down to f/1.8 or  f/2 ? If so I don't see that as a problem.

Most likely a 105/1.8 would have swirly bokeh also and would need stopping down to f/2.5 to cure the effect...
I agree a more modest aperture would allow the lens to be considerably more compact.

pluton

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Re: Taking apart the AF-S 105 1.4
« Reply #28 on: December 12, 2016, 21:28:31 »
Everybody that read the blog is aware that Roger is promoting his business. He is about the only reviewer/tester that takes the items apart and he does that because it's his business to do so.
He is the only one who dismantles the equipment.  It was common for the photo magazine testers to dismantle the gear in the days of film cameras and non-electronic lenses, but none of the internet "reviewers" have the skill/knowledge/commitment to do so now.
Keith B., Santa Monica, CA, USA

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Re: Taking apart the AF-S 105 1.4
« Reply #29 on: December 12, 2016, 21:45:06 »
We actually have/are a few guys here that take our new lenses apart to see ans check underneath the skin,,, ;) I remember clearly the discussions when the first AFS 1.4G lenses came out,,,
Erik Lund