Author Topic: Interview to the designers of AF-S 105/1.4E  (Read 18681 times)

Akira

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Interview to the designers of AF-S 105/1.4E
« on: October 19, 2016, 04:21:33 »
Sometime ago, Digital Camera Watch published an interview to the Nikon designers of AF-S 105/1.4E in two parts:

http://dc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/news/interview/1017554.html

http://dc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/news/interview/1018916.html

I'm afraid it is too long to translate everything, so I extracted some interesting points.  If you have any further questions, please feel free to ask.

Hope this would be of any help.

--105/1.4E was intended as the lens that celebrates the 100th anniversary (in 2017) of the foundation of Nikon company, and originally designed as a 100mm lens.  For the coherency in the existing product line, however, it was redesigned as a 105mm one.

--Around the time 58/1.4G was designed, Nikon founded a special project team to analyze the optical characters of the historically renowned lenses of different makes using their original measuring machine called OPTIA.  The results of the measurements have been taken into considerations in the design of 105/14E

--Zenji Wakimoto, the legendary Nikon optics designer, decided that the steps of focal lengths should be decided according to more natural transition of the angle-of-view and propounded the 50, 36 (nominal 35), 24, 20mm step instead of Contax’ 50, 35, 25, 21mm step.  (At that time, neither made 28mm lenses.)  To extrapolate the steps into the longer range, they decided on 85 and 105mm focal lengths.

--The basic concept for the aberration correction of 105/1.4E is similar to that of 58/1.4G and is based on Nikon’s original 3D Hi-Fi concept.  However, 105/1.4E was designed to be a little sharper than 58/1.4G when it is set wide open and focus closer.

Nikon thinks that there is no absolute answer to the best balancing point of the aberration correction that satisfy all the users.  They will offer lenses with different balances of aberration corrections to choose from.

--The conventional lenses have been designed for the infinity (except for older Micro lenses or special purpose lenses).  The subject or the scene at infinity can be considered as 2-D object, so a lens can be designed for the flat subjects.  On the other hand, the closer subjects are mostly 3-D (except for the reproduction of documents), and 2-D design doesn’t work well.  That’s why they started to design the lenses based on the 3-D concept.

--The resulted optical design of 105/1.4E is the combination of the front converter plus the master lens of a modified Gaussian type which is rather similar to the current super-tele design concept.

--ED elements are employed to correct the chromatic aberration.  The ED elements are most effective in the lenses longer than 135mm.  So Nikon hasn’t used ED glasses even for the fast mid-tele lenses.  Also, the conventional mid-tele lenses are of Gaussian (or its derivative) type, and its convex lenses should be made of high-refractive-index glasses.  The refractive index of ED glasses is generally low, which makes it difficult to use in the Gaussian design.

--The aspherical element was not absolutely necessary thanks to its relatively narrower angle-of-view.

--The MTF chart of 105/1.4E tells that the mid-angle area is sharper than the central area, because the main focal point doesn’t always coincide with the center (portraiture, for example).

--That said, they don’t like their lenses to be judged only by the MTF chart.

--The cut out of the round bokeh will show up occasionally, which is inevitable in the combination of (D)SLR and f1.4 lenses.

--Ais 105/1.8 was difficult to convert to an AF lens because the total weight of the optics was too heavy to move them at enough speed.  The power efficiency of a supersonic motor is not really high.

--VR function was discarded at an earlier stage of its design process, because they decided that the lens would be too long, fat and heavy to use at reasonable comfort.
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longzoom

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Re: Interview to the designers of AF-S 105/1.4E
« Reply #1 on: October 19, 2016, 04:37:46 »
Thanks for sharing this info with us!  LZ

aerobat

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Re: Interview to the designers of AF-S 105/1.4E
« Reply #2 on: October 19, 2016, 05:45:17 »
Many thanks Akira for translating the very interesting information for us.
Rarely such detailed information is given out to the public.
Daniel Diggelmann

Tristin

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Re: Interview to the designers of AF-S 105/1.4E
« Reply #3 on: October 19, 2016, 05:47:26 »
Thank you Akira!
-Tristin

beryllium10

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Re: Interview to the designers of AF-S 105/1.4E
« Reply #4 on: October 19, 2016, 05:49:30 »
Akira - Thanks for translating the important points.  I'm glad to see that Nikon remains determined to design for more than MTF scores, which seem to generate so much internet fuss, hype and commentary.  It's also interesting to see that they deliberately optimised sharpness away from the central field of the 105 mm, for off-axis detail.  It sounds like a great deal of thought went into this lens!

Cheers,  John

Roland Vink

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Re: Interview to the designers of AF-S 105/1.4E
« Reply #5 on: October 19, 2016, 05:51:08 »
--105/1.4E was intended as the lens that celebrates the 100th anniversary (in 2017) of the foundation of Nikon company, and originally designed as a 100mm lens.  For the coherency in the existing product line, however, it was redesigned as a 105mm one.

--Zenji Wakimoto, the legendary Nikon optics designer, decided that the steps of focal lengths should be decided according to more natural transition of the angle-of-view and propounded the 50, 36 (nominal 35), 24, 20mm step instead of Contax’ 50, 35, 25, 21mm step.  (At that time, neither made 28mm lenses.)  To extrapolate the steps into the longer range, they decided on 85 and 105mm focal lengths.
Thank you Akira.

100mm lens for 100 years. Nice idea. If the lens had been 100mm, the entrance pupil would be reduced to 71mm, so the standard 77mm filter would have been used and the barrel would be smaller. 105mm would have been chosen to provide more equal spread of focal lengths between 85 and 135mm. This was the reason Nikon chose 10.5cm (105mm) for the original rangefinder Nikkor-P 10.5cm f/2.5 lens back in the 1950s.

If lenses had a genuine equal progression between focal lengths, we would see 25, 35, 50, 70, 100, 140, 200, 280, 400 ... (1.4x or sqrt(2) difference between each lens)

richardHaw

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Re: Interview to the designers of AF-S 105/1.4E
« Reply #6 on: October 19, 2016, 06:00:31 »
good job :o :o :o

Akira

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Re: Interview to the designers of AF-S 105/1.4E
« Reply #7 on: October 19, 2016, 06:53:55 »
LZ, Daniel, Tristin, John, Roland and Rick, thanks for kind words.  I'm glad you enjoy reading the summary.

John, an engineer also said that the MTF of the old 105/2.5 from the rangefinder era showed characteristics similar to that of 104/1.4E (a little higher in the middle-angle area than the center), which suggests that Mr. Wakimoto already had that design concept decades ago!

Roland, even if the lens would have been 100mm, it would required the front element of similar diameter in order to avoid vignetting, because of the wider (even slightly) angle-of-view.

Correction: both Nikon and Contax made 28mm lenses in the rangifinder era.
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richardHaw

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Re: Interview to the designers of AF-S 105/1.4E
« Reply #8 on: October 19, 2016, 07:46:51 »
surprised that wakimoto is still alive :o :o :o

John Geerts

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Re: Interview to the designers of AF-S 105/1.4E
« Reply #9 on: October 19, 2016, 08:46:21 »
Very interesting, Akira. Thanks for the translation !!

Erik Lund

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Re: Interview to the designers of AF-S 105/1.4E
« Reply #10 on: October 19, 2016, 08:47:13 »
Thank you so much for the detailed translation, makes perfect sense! Very interesting reading the back ground - IMHO the performance of the 105mm AFS 1.4 E is much closer to 58mm AFS 1.4 G in real life use on a DSLR than may people 'think' - the whole series of 1.4 lenses are perfectly matched by design.

Again, thank you for the translation ;)
Erik Lund

chambeshi

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Re: Interview to the designers of AF-S 105/1.4E
« Reply #11 on: October 19, 2016, 09:02:43 »
Most illuminating explanations. Thank so much for translating into this succinct synopsis  :-)

I'm glad to see that Nikon remains determined to design for more than MTF scores, which seem to generate so much internet fuss, hype and commentary.

Hear!! Hear!! Bravo

David H. Hartman

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Re: Interview to the designers of AF-S 105/1.4E
« Reply #12 on: October 19, 2016, 09:24:00 »
Akira,

Thank you for the translation. I tried the Google translation and made sense of some of it but much didn't make sense.

Best,

Dave Hartman

---

My take on optimizing sharpness to the mid area is giving up a little in the center for better performance near the edge. The eyes in a portrait won't be in the center a way. That is a point made in the interview. Read it a few times and it will stick. :)

I wonder if the 105/2.5 AIS & AI were designed that way. I remember lens reviews in Modern Photography where the 75-150/3.5 E was sharper in the center than the 105/2.5 AIS but the latter was sharper at the edge.
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Erik Lund

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Re: Interview to the designers of AF-S 105/1.4E
« Reply #13 on: October 19, 2016, 09:45:25 »
This has more to do with field curvature, depth of focus distribution, I would think.
Erik Lund

Roland Vink

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Re: Interview to the designers of AF-S 105/1.4E
« Reply #14 on: October 20, 2016, 00:14:50 »
Roland, even if the lens would have been 100mm, it would required the front element of similar diameter in order to avoid vignetting, because of the wider (even slightly) angle-of-view.

Correction: both Nikon and Contax made 28mm lenses in the rangifinder era.
In the rangefinder era, Nikon made 21, 25, 28, 35mm wide angle lenses. In the SLR era, changed 25 to 24 to provide better separation from 28, and consequently changed 21 to 20 to provide better separation from the new 24, so we now have 20, 24, 28, 35. Most manufacturers followed the same logic, except Zeiss which retains the older focal lengths.


As for the proposed 100/1.4 lens, it would have an entrance pupil = 71mm which is 6mm smaller than 77mm filter.
This is identical to the Canon 85/1.2, a faster lens with wider angle of view, so 100/1.4 with 77mm filter should be less difficult. Of course it is likely the 85/1.2 has very high mechanical vignetting.

Nikon have made a number lenses with similar focal length which have very tight margin between entrance pupil and filter:
Lens        Pupil  Filter
Auto 85/1.8  47     52
Noct 58/1.2  48     52
AIS 105/1.8  58     62
AIS 135/2.8  48     52