Pocket Wizards and their Competitors.

[PedroS]

I do not have any experience with those brands, but try to gather more knowledge on them, especially if they produce consistently the same color temp.

[David H. Hartman]

I came across a Phottix Odin capable of operating remotely a Canon 380EX flash.

I highly doubt that a Phottix Odin or Odin II for Nikon will control a Canon 380EX. The only system I've read about that will control various brands of speedlight is the Cactus V6 but I'm quite sure it's manual flash power from the camera but not TTL.

Dave

Again I own use the Phottix Strato II system but have only read about the others.

[John G]

I have seen the Odin trigger the Canon 380EX on the Northrupps Youtube page.
They are comparing four radio trigger systems.
I am not sure of the amount of control the Odin has on the Canon flash, but it was firing the flash quite successfully.
It might be worth a look at, as they have two systems on there that have not been mentioned in this thread.

[paul_k]

The Phottix Odin offers the same kind of functionality (with a, similar to a SU800 or AC5, Transmitter and Control Unit with separate groups and four different channels with A:B ratio, TTL/Manual, second curtain sync, zoom and other options governable right from it) when used with Canon (and Nikon) speedlights as the PW's TT1/TT5's do with Nikon's, and reportedly (no personal experience) are just as robust and reliable

As far as the latter is concerned, the PW's (again reportedly, but by many reliable sources) didn't work well with (some?) Canon speedlights, and even required special (AC5) socks to improve that (confirming the reports mentioned were correct)

Not a Canon user, so not a matter of personal interest, but of course I'm curious whether the Odin's work better then the PW TT1/TT5's in that regard

[John G]

The supporting radio triggers I have aquired for my 2 x SB800 Speedlights are a Pocket Wizard TT1 + 2X TT5 + AC3.
On another note, the understanding of flash photography, along with the many variations of set ups, is proving quite difficult to comprehend and holding onto information from tutorials is proving a trial.
I intend on capturing wildlife subjects whilst in a hide, using off camera flash in fading light, with flash units positioned to make the light on a pre determined focal point create a improved exposure. Can this really be so mind boggling 

[David H. Hartman]

Try contacting this guy...

https://www.flickr.com/photos/10118472@N05/

Try asking questions on the Strobist.com group at Flickr...

https://www.flickr.com/groups/strobist/

Jerry P. H. knows the Pocket Wizards very well.

I hope this helps,

Dave Hartman

[charlie]

Or just continue asking questions here.

When learning to use flash it will likely be easier to learn if you just focus on a single setup. One camera + one flash + ambient light, all adjustments made manually.

Once you understand that you are dealing with two separate exposures, the flash exposure and the ambient light exposure, it is simply a balancing act between the two to work out the effect/exposure you desire. Once you have that down move on to light placement, light source size, & introducing more lights.

The flash exposure is tied to your aperture, ambient light exposure is tied to your shutter setting, ISO settings will effect both. 

So you've stated what it is you want to do, what trouble are you having in getting there?
 

[John G]

Thank you David and Charlie
                                             David offered his advice before, but I completely forgot to follow up on it, many apologies for this.
                                             Charlie, I need to take a time out for myself and dedicate a time to learn how to interact with the menu and setting options 
                                             confidently, I can't recall much that was learnt when out in the field and away from a information source.
                                             The preferred tutorial at present is the Blue Crane Nikon Speedlight SB800.                                         
                                              The memory lapse was very evident at the Classic Car Show I attended on the Weekend. 
                                             To help with this I have been searching for a one to one tuition reasonably local to me.
                                              I intend on making the most of this new discipline, so expect to see some images soon in critique. The shared observations
                                              of other members has been a great motivator for me, encouraging changes to my basic techniques.   

[David H. Hartman]

Once you understand that you are dealing with two separate exposures, the flash exposure and the ambient light exposure, it is simply a balancing act between the two to work out the effect/exposure you desire. Once you have that down move on to light placement, light source size, & introducing more lights.

Once the shutter speeds get shorter than the T0.1 and T0.5 flash duration the shutter speed effects both. The Pocket Wizard system John bought allows going beyond point where shutter speed does not affect the flash exposure. With the SB-800 and most any similar speedlight a shutter speed of 1/250th causes shading of the top of the frame at full and half power as the flash duration is longer than 1/250th. At 1/4 power and less this doesn't happen because of the way IGBT circuits truncate the flash duration making the difference between T0.1 and T0.5 flash durations mute.

Anyway I'm suggesting Jerey P.H. mostly for his technical knowledge of the Pocket Wizards here though I'm fully certain his practical knowledge of flash is fully up to par.

Dave

[charlie]

Once the shutter speeds get shorter than the T0.1 and T0.5 flash duration the shutter speed effects both. The Pocket Wizard system John bought allows going beyond point where shutter speed does not affect the flash exposure. With the SB-800 and most any similar speedlight a shutter speed of 1/250th causes shading of the top of the frame at full and half power as the flash duration is longer than 1/250th. At 1/4 power and less this doesn't happen because of the way IGBT circuits truncate the flash duration making the difference between T0.1 and T0.5 flash durations mute.

Anyway I'm suggesting Jerey P.H. mostly for his technical knowledge of the Pocket Wizards here though I'm fully certain his practical knowledge of flash is fully up to par.

Dave

Well it's no wonder he's confused with posts like that

You could go your whole life without knowing what t.5/t.1 and IGBT terminology means and still make great photographs. That said I think you just taught me how they achieve high speed sync these days, so thanks for that, always was curious. (I just looked up what t.5/t.1 & IGBT is )

Anyway, John's posts suggest that he is not at all familiar with using flash so it seems best to first learn the basics and not start with the ins and outs of a more advanced high speed sync triggering system, no?

[John G]

Charlie is correct, pure basics at present are required.
I will eventually become familiar with the more advanced set ups.

PW's have been delivered. I can now begin my journey into off camera flash, with a worthy set of tools.

[paul_k]

Here are a few examples of a recent catwalk shot with a D800 (+2.8/70-200 VR2, ISO 1600 f5,0, flash TTL, Matrix Mode), using two SB800's off camera, on a lightstand, with TT5's, with a TT5 on camera, no SU800 or AC3 Controller (I was being lazy)

Location was virtually dark, without any kind of stage lighting (just a few small ceiling mounted spotlights, like you find in a bar)
Nevertheless no AF Assist lights of any kind (on camera or speedlight) used, still the D800 stood its ground (well)

Pictures intentionally kept somewhat underexposed during the shoot (on camera EFC around -1 to -2/3 stops) shadows (in particular background, which other wise would be pitchblack, with consequently harsh black shadows) recovered in post (using just NX 2.4.6)

Color temperature similarly kept on the warm side in post (colored models, so trying to get the skintones 'correct'/resembling 'causasian' would obviously be completely off mark)

[John G]

Thank you Paul
I will have proper look on the computer later at our work.
When I get to grips with the SB 800 menu,
I will try your setting choices.
I have a 15metre hallway that I have been practicing in.
I can control the ambient light naturally, from mid darkness to black.
I then can illuminate the space as well.
So a good working distance although with a width restriction.

[Erik Lund]

Here are a few examples of a recent catwalk shot with a D800 (+2.8/70-200 VR2, ISO 1600 f5,0, flash TTL, Matrix Mode), using two SB800's off camera, on a lightstand, with TT5's, with a TT5 on camera, no SU800 or AC3 Controller (I was being lazy)

Location was virtually dark, without any kind of stage lighting (just a few small ceiling mounted spotlights, like you find in a bar)
Nevertheless no AF Assist lights of any kind (on camera or speedlight) used, still the D800 stood its ground (well)

Pictures intentionally kept somewhat underexposed during the shoot (on camera EFC around -1 to -2/3 stops) shadows (in particular background, which other wise would be pitchblack, with consequently harsh black shadows) recovered in post (using just NX 2.4.6)

Color temperature similarly kept on the warm side in post (colored models, so trying to get the skintones 'correct'/resembling 'causasian' would obviously be completely off mark)

I feel that he shadow is very much distracting in the first shot. I would keep the flash on camera and bounce it, soften it up and go higher in ISO like 3.200 and stop down to 2.8 the adjust the BG light with the shutter speed to desired levels

Why underexpose?

[paul_k]

I feel that he shadow is very much distracting in the first shot. I would keep the flash on camera and bounce it, soften it up and go higher in ISO like 3.200 and stop down to 2.8 the adjust the BG light with the shutter speed to desired levels

Why underexpose?

Bounce was not an option, the ceiling was painted black

Similarly the back ground was, apart from the spill light from the foyer, deprived of any type of serious lighting, so bumping up the ISO and opening the lens would not have mattered .

And of course 2.8 would mean loss of DoF, which considering the already considerable risk of unsharpness (fast moving subjects under for all practical purposes non existant light) was a risk I wasn't prepared for.


Also, using just one speedlight would not have given enough GN, and consequently range and recycle times, to cover the whole catwalk (around 35 to 40 feet long).

So consequently using at least two speeddlights was inevitable, the combined weight of which, together with the external PB960 battery pack, with a D800 and grip, and 2.8/70-200, are impossible to handhold/operate comfortably for a longer period/speedily during a shoot (even if the whole contraption was e.g. mounted on a monopod, which BTW is what I always, just as in this case, use when shooting catwalk with the 70-200)


Positioning the speedlight(s) flat out in front of the castwalk was of course impossible, as I was already was standing there

Due to the relatively small space between me and the front of the catwalk, there was no room to put there either, and placing them straight behind me would course would risk me be blocking them, or creating a big shadow covering the oncoming models.


Under exposure allowed to keep initially the contrast low, in particular after recovering the shadows in post, which I then could later augment according to my personal preference while making the definitive version of the picture in post