Pocket Wizards and their Competitors.

[John G]

After reading with enthusiasm Bjorns thread about his learning to get his SB800 Speedlight to fully interface with a Non Nikon Body.
Congratulations to him for his pursuit and getting the outcome he wished for.
I have been looking into how to get the most of my SB800 Speedlights when used with a D800E.
I have no intention of using these on camera, but feel realistically that many opportunities will be staged using a Camouflage Hide as a position for the camera body. My wish to do work with my set up in the low winter light is my goal. With the addition of sheep on our land we are noticing a frequent visit from a variety of wild life, with Deer and Buzzard being very settled around the Sheep paddocks.
I can set up a hide in various positions, and feel I could get quite close to the Subjects, I would like to start at about 30 metres and work my way into a closer proximity using a Camouflage Mesh Screen as a cover. The Buzzards are sharp eyed and it will take time to overcome their aloofness. They let me get to about 75 metres when I have my binoculars in hand. I can also visit the hides on my local
Nature Reserves and set up a flash array outside. 
That is the general intention of usage.
I have seen the Nikon Creative Lighting and set up my system indoors and had it working to 12 metres. I have used it to about 5 outdoors.
I am not saying it failed beyond these distances, that is the approx distance I have used it at. There are a variety of reports that it is not consistent as a trigger and the effectiveness of the trigger, due to the signal being IR, will be effected by ambient light ?
I have investigated much of the presented support in Bjorns thread and have come to learn that a Radio Signal as a trigger is much more dependable and works over large distances.
Top of the range devices will work at 1000 metres. Lower Range devices will work at 200 metres.
I have been doing my usual market searches and assessing my purchase options for a Radio Trigger System and it would seem that the Pocket Wizard TT1 and TT5 in partnership are very well liked, the Phottix Ares/TTL are well liked at the more affordable for me pricing.
I would be willing to purchase a used System if the asking price is acceptable. 
Any offerings on how I can best support my off camera flash will be very well received.   

[David H. Hartman]

John,

First I think you'll need to decide on manual flash or TTL. If manual you'll need to decide on simple fire now or flash power control from the camera or only at the speedlight. Since you will be in a blind or hide I think the answer is pretty easy. you need control from the camera.

I'd look at Phottix Oden II. I'd see if the range is sufficient. I believe it will  be easier to use. It is compatible with you Nikon SB-800(s) and LumoPro LP180R(s) and offers TTL and manual control from the camera with these speedlights. It will "fire now" Phottix Strato II receivers. The LP180R(s) have Odin and Strato II receivers built in.

I don't own an Odin system but I'd like to. I own the Strato II system and an pleased with it. Besides triggering speedlight I'm very pleased with it for remote triggering my D800. I can't recommend the Strato II for use from a blind because it's fire now trigger system with no power control from the camera.

The Pocket Wizard TTL with manual control from the camera, as I read is a bit finicky about power up sequence with more features and a higher price. I gather it the best for a wedding photographer. It's well out of my price range.

For extreme range in a fire now, manual trigger system I'd like the Pocket Wizard Plus IV. The configuration is like the Strato II with 4 groups but more range, more channels and a repeater fiction. I don't think it's best for a blind as flash power can't be set from the camera.

There is photographer named Jerry P. H. at ...

https://www.flickr.com/groups/strobist/

...he knows the Pocket Wizard system very well. I'd give him  PM.

Best,

Dave Hartman

[John G]

Thank you David
.                        The Phottix Odin is a model I looked into late yesterday. It appears to do much of what I believe I will need.
Flash usage is a new investigation for me, so I hope to achieve the correct supporting control system from the start,
then progress in understanding and applying it to my photography.
All the links supplied in Bjorns thread have been very good.
What is nice to know is that there is another level of creativity that can be introduced to a very addictive  .
I will attempt to PM your suggested person tonight.

[PedroS]

Different approach, but much better in my opinion...

Profoto B1 or B2

(TTL, better color output, quicker recharge, higher power... less portable, bigger, heavier), but, again, better in the long run.

[John G]

The Profoto is new to me. It commands a very high purchase price. More than I could justify.
As a used item, it is still holding a high market value.
I have read up on it a little, it appears to be a very high end model.

[PedroS]

Indeed they are expensive, but give them a look, you'll be surprised.

[Ilkka Nissilä]

How do you manage the weight of the Profoto head in the field? I find the most annoying part to have to carry sand bags to keep the stand upright (on top of everything else), when I'm using battery powered studio flash outdoors. And even then sometimes there is damage if it is even slightly windy, but I use largeish modifiers with my flash.

[PedroS]

I use the B1s, that are really no feather weight at 3.2Kgs, but the light quality and power they deliver is really worth.
In the field depends of type of work. If fashion, portrait on location, sand bags are the rule (a pain to carry in fact), and I carry everything on an Eckla Beach rolly cart. Normally 3 bags for each tripod/stand. Outdoors I tend to use only zoom reflectors and beauty dishes (profoto OCF ones), as they provide the most real to mix light with the sun. So, no big modifiers, meaning no big wing catchers, but almost all the time, 1 assistant comes with me, so...
If alone only one B1, if I antecipate windy days, and with zoom heads. They provide a good light quality not being too much wind catchers.
Sometimes, when light boxes are needed, just use campying polles and spikes to hold everything where it should. Photo tripods, can be handy, instead of studio ones, as they provide a larger footprint.

[Ilkka Nissilä]

I would think that a speedlight with 200mm illumination pattern would work well for wildlife. A studio flash is designed to spread the light evenly in every direction to fill large modifiers evenly (especially the indirect kind). An SB-5000 has the optics built in to produce a narrow cone of light. One can control it e.g. a D500 with radio. I am not saying a larger flash would not work; I just haven't read about wildlife application of them and what kind of modifier to use.

[PedroS]

I would think that a speedlight with 200mm illumination pattern would work well for wildlife. A studio flash is designed to spread the light evenly in every direction to fill large modifiers evenly (especially the indirect kind). An SB-5000 has the optics built in to produce a narrow cone of light. One can control it e.g. a D500 with radio. I am not saying a larger flash would not work; I just haven't read about wildlife application of them and what kind of modifier to use.

Towards wildlife there's a very interesting report on the profoto website/blog/B1.

The very well thought design of both the B1 and B2 are quite adapted to wildlife as the lamp is already recessed and has, becasuse of that, some sort of deflector already. Note that the hard modifiers like the zoom ones, and again because of the design, can be moved in or out, making the focus wider or narrow. I haven't yet use them (but I intend to) for wildlife, but either their OCF snoot or the zoom reflector should be ideal. The speed of them will let you freeze the movement with ease, and better than with a speedlight.
But I still have to prove that they can beat a speedlight with a beamer. My feeling is of course, but a price has to be paid... portability. In this case the B2 will be the better choice.

[David H. Hartman]

Can you buy "telephoto" reflectors?

A  Better Beamer is just a Fresnel lens with an adapter. A Fresnel lens can be fitted to a studio flash like a square acetate filter. There would be some trial and error or I'm sure one could calculate the focal length of Fresnel lens needed. Perhaps someone here knows how to calculate for a typical application and give us an example?

Dave

[PedroS]

Can you buy "telephoto" reflectors?

A  Better Beamer is just a Fresnel lens with an adapter. A Fresnel lens can be fitted to a studio flash like a square acetate filter. There would be some trial and error or I'm sure one could calculate the focal length of Fresnel lens needed. Perhaps someone here knows how to calculate for a typical application and give us an example?

Dave

Correct, and profoto offers fresnel lenses as well, no experience on them, thought.

[paul_k]

I'm an early adapter of the PW TT5 (I have several of them, didn't buy the TT1 because of the less convenient battery, the TT5 takes simple AA's) started buying my first units when they became available in 2009 (?)
Like them very much, despite the high price tag (although that has been next to constant since the introduction over here)
With regards to that price tag, at the time of their introduction there were no cheap, Chinese knock off, alternatives, so that simply was something that had to be taken accepted

Use them in TTL and Manual mode with the AC5 zone controller, and a SU800 (the original CLS infra red commander unit), so switching between Manual and TTL is, if desired, a piece of cake.
Ditto with setting the 'correct' power output (in Manual mode), and getting the exposure (in TTL mode) correct ( when shooting in TTL mode you can on top of the AC5/SU800 use the in camera flash exposure compensation function to fine tune that - I use the TT5's with SB800's on my D3 and D800's for event and catwalk - )

The reason that I use SB800's instead of Pro Foto's is similar to why I bought the TT5's, Pro Foto's simply weren't around yet at the moment I needed/started buying powerfull TTL flashlights (used Metz 60CT4 on my film camera's and older DSLR's)

That said, major considerations for me for not 'upgrading' also were/are the considerable difference in overall price, bulk/weight, and reliability of the TTL metering.

A 2 heads Profoto B1 location kit will set me back Eur 3569 in the Netherlands, on top of which I will also need to purchase an Air Remote unit for an additional Eur 349
At the moment I have, bought over the course of something like 8 years, 6 SB800's for about Eur 1200, 6 TT5 for about Eur 1100, an AC5 for Eur 65 and two 2 Godox 960 powerpacks and (4) cables for about Eur 360, so in total still quite a bit less, and since purchased of a longer period, much less strenuous on my finances.
And of course a single B1 weighs in at about 3 kg

The Nikon TTL is next to flawless as far as my experiences are concerned, with plenty of fast and easy fixes/options for further fine tuning just in case.
While the compared to a B1 lower output per speed light is not a real world problem for me (even my 500 Ws Bowens studio units I never use at full power).
And if I do need more power, I just add another SB800 (I at occasion have shot very badly lit catwalks shows with 4 SB800's/TT5's and additional PB960's mounted on a lightstand, enabling me to still shoot in TTL mode despite despite the 100 feet long catwalk)

Also just one SB00 can be taken along as just a small 'extra' in a small camera bag together with a camera and a lens, eg when taking a camera along 'just in case' or to a intimate family event like a birthday (not everone wants to be the party pooping 'uncle with the big camera, lens and flashlight') and of course if things do break down, I have plenty room for just picking another/spare unit (flash and/or remote)

Don't use the SB800's with fresnel adapters like the Better Beamer, so can't commend on that
But that said, he 'spread' of the light of a SB800 can also be aimed to a smaller area (just disable the 'zoom' function of the flash, and manually fix that at 105mm), and I also always have a couple of Flashbenders in my bag when I take a 'full' f;ash set up with me.

The 'start up' procedure for a speedlight/TT5 set is pretty simple/basic (just top to bottom, first the speedlight - that is/should be mounted in the hotshoe on the TT5, then the remote, et voila, you're done)

I have read very positive reports on the Phottix Odin units, basically do the same as well as the TT5's (definitely would consider them if I were to start from scratch today)

If you are 100% dedicated to shooting in Manual Mode, I would also recommend to just buy the 'dumber' PW units like the PW Plus III etc (but you teh allso would not need to invest in a Pro Foto set as well, even a golden oldie like the Mezt 60CT4 in manual mode would do then)

My 2 cents

[PedroS]

 

One uses what suits the best... budget/portability/convenience/comfort zone.

I like to try different things, challenge my comfort zones, and see if can be done in a better way.
Profoto experience just blow my SB's collection out of the way, they just perform much better. And their TTL is awesome. I tend to use it, even in studio, much more...
Comparing to speed lights; are they easy to carry? No; Are they expensive? Yes, but much less than expected in the long run; Do they produce better result? Yes, hands down; Are they equally easy to setup? Much easy, with power to spare; Are they up to the job in all situations? None are, but I rely much more on them.

That said, 1 or 2 SBs continue to find space in my bags...

[John G]

It would seem that at present I am down to the Pocket Wizard and Phottix as the two systems usable for me.
I am attempting to buy a used pair of TT5 and a TT1, just waiting a response from the vendor. 
All the time spent offering me support is very well received and appreciated.
Whilst investigating the Odin vs Pocket Wizard on YouTube, I came across a Phottix Odin capable of operating remotely a Canon 380EX flash.
I do not know much about these flashes apart from they can be bought very cheaply. I hope this bit of info might offer a option for a cheaper light source to those who know the capabilities of this flash model.