Author Topic: ADDING THE LEAST EXTENSION TO LENSES  (Read 4516 times)

Michael Erlewine

  • Close-Up Photographer
  • NG Supporter
  • **
  • Posts: 2067
  • Close-Up with APO
    • Spirit Grooves
ADDING THE LEAST EXTENSION TO LENSES
« on: June 24, 2015, 21:03:18 »
Since I seem to be making a habit of using wider angle lenses than I would like to for close-up work because they are SO well corrected, I would like to talk about it a bit. The lenses shown here are the Zeiss Otus 55mm f/1.4 APO, the Zeiss Otus 85mm f/1.4 APO, the Sigma ART 24mm f/1.4, and the Nikkor Fisheye 15mm f/2.8-D. With the exception of the 16mm Fisheye, I have been adding a little bit of extension to the others. The reason I do this is to try and shorten the minimum focus distance, i.e. to make these lenses more like a close-up lens, which of course they are not.

For the most part I have been using the PK-11A which adds 8mm of extension, but the smallest amount of extension that I am able to add is the K1 Extension Ring which adds 5.8 mm of extension. I can add the PK-11A to the Otus 55mm, and that works OK, but if I add it to the Otus 85 or the Sigma Art 24mm, the results are not so good. Forget about adding it to the 16mm Nikkor fisheye.

Just for fun, I tried adding the K1 Extension Ring to the above lenses, to see if less is more, and it is at least interesting. Here are some quick photos of a flower with the K1 Ring added to these lenses, and a couple of them are also shot at f/16 and also with a short stack at a much wider aperture.

This may well not interest anyone else, but for me I am trying to see what I can get away with as a method to get closer with these mid-range lenses, aside from cropping. I am aware that these particular lenses are perfectly balanced marvels all on their own. I never add any lenses to the front or back of my lenses, and even extension disrupts the fine balance. But here I am doing it, and trying to add the least amount of extension (K1 = 5.8mm) to get a little closer without degrading the lens too much.

As for aperture, I typically stack at the widest aperture the lens will tolerate without degradation OR for single-shot photos at the highest aperture I can get away with that diffraction does not degrade. It is my opinion that these Zeiss Otus lenses will tolerate higher apertures without diffraction hurting them as much, at least to my eyes. I know that diffraction is a natural law, etc., but have you tried small apertures with these lenses? If so, what are your results?

I throw in the Nikkor 16mm Fisheye, which can’t tolerate the PK-11a, and barely tolerates the K1 ring; the result is kind of fun. I did not remove the effects of the fisheye lens (straighten the lines out), but I could have, although they are more interesting left as is IMO.

I hope some of you find it interesting.
MichaelErlewine.smugmug.com, Daily Blog at https://www.facebook.com/MichaelErlewine. main site: SpiritGrooves.net, https://www.youtube.com/user/merlewine, Founder: MacroStop.com, All-Music Guide, All-Movie Guide, Classic Posters.com, Matrix Software, DharmaGrooves.com

Bjørn Rørslett

  • Fierce Bear of the North
  • Administrator
  • ***
  • Posts: 8252
  • Oslo, Norway
Re: ADDING THE LEAST EXTENSION TO LENSES
« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2015, 21:14:42 »
Interesting comparison. The K1 is a valuable item to have in the camera bag. Sometimes one just needs that little extra improvement on the near limit. That even highly correct lenses obey the law of physics and lose definition when stopped well down, comes as no surprise.

However, I'm baffled to the quite dull and bland rendition of the sigma lens here. It sticks out like a sore thumb in this comparison. Was the images obtained by this lens processed like the others?

Michael Erlewine

  • Close-Up Photographer
  • NG Supporter
  • **
  • Posts: 2067
  • Close-Up with APO
    • Spirit Grooves
Re: ADDING THE LEAST EXTENSION TO LENSES
« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2015, 21:21:43 »
The Sigma was treated the same, same time, same processing.

 I can't explain it.  I am going out of town for a couple of weeks, but when I get back I will do some more. I am also taking that lens with me, so I may be able to experiment. I have seen nice work with the lens. The surprise for me was how nice the 16mm NIkkor looks with a little extension.

Here is more of a quick shot with the Sigma that has some character. Of course we are waiting for the WA Otus. Until then, I don't have a lot of lenses that I like for WA that focus close. This is the local river that runs through our town, the mighty Muskegon River.
MichaelErlewine.smugmug.com, Daily Blog at https://www.facebook.com/MichaelErlewine. main site: SpiritGrooves.net, https://www.youtube.com/user/merlewine, Founder: MacroStop.com, All-Music Guide, All-Movie Guide, Classic Posters.com, Matrix Software, DharmaGrooves.com

Bernard Delley

  • NG Member
  • *
  • Posts: 136
  • You ARE NikonGear
Re: ADDING THE LEAST EXTENSION TO LENSES
« Reply #3 on: June 30, 2015, 10:01:40 »
Michael,

is there a close range where the APO Lanthar 125mm produces better IQ than the Zeiss APO 135mm ?
The Zeiss is designed up to 1:4 repro ratio and needs tubes beyond that. The Lanthar has a built  in abiltity to go to 1:1 repro ratio.

Michael Erlewine

  • Close-Up Photographer
  • NG Supporter
  • **
  • Posts: 2067
  • Close-Up with APO
    • Spirit Grooves
Re: ADDING THE LEAST EXTENSION TO LENSES
« Reply #4 on: July 01, 2015, 01:07:25 »
IMO, unfortunately, there is no range that the IQ of the CV-125 is better than the Zeiss APOs. The CV-125 can get closer, but the quality is not up to the Zeiss.
MichaelErlewine.smugmug.com, Daily Blog at https://www.facebook.com/MichaelErlewine. main site: SpiritGrooves.net, https://www.youtube.com/user/merlewine, Founder: MacroStop.com, All-Music Guide, All-Movie Guide, Classic Posters.com, Matrix Software, DharmaGrooves.com

Bjørn Rørslett

  • Fierce Bear of the North
  • Administrator
  • ***
  • Posts: 8252
  • Oslo, Norway
Re: ADDING THE LEAST EXTENSION TO LENSES
« Reply #5 on: July 01, 2015, 01:25:03 »
So, are the Zeiss APO lenses entirely free of any chromatic aberrations? If memory serves there are reports to the contrary.

PedroS

  • NG Member
  • *
  • Posts: 412
  • You ARE NikonGear
Re: ADDING THE LEAST EXTENSION TO LENSES
« Reply #6 on: July 01, 2015, 19:15:48 »

However, I'm baffled to the quite dull and bland rendition of the sigma lens here. It sticks out like a sore thumb in this comparison. Was the images obtained by this lens processed like the others?

That's what caught my attention... strange.

By the way, nice experiment... as always!

pluton

  • NG Supporter
  • **
  • Posts: 2687
  • You ARE NikonGear
Re: ADDING THE LEAST EXTENSION TO LENSES
« Reply #7 on: July 01, 2015, 20:27:24 »
It appears from the wide angle shots here that this was shot next to a sunlit window.  Between the 24mm and fisheye shots it appears that the sun light flooding on the window changed quality during the Sigma shot...softer, more diffuse.  If true, this could explain the Sigma shot being "duller" in this set up.
Seems to me that exact, repeatable, non-changing lighting would be preferable to what appears to have been used.
Keith B., Santa Monica, CA, USA

pluton

  • NG Supporter
  • **
  • Posts: 2687
  • You ARE NikonGear
Re: ADDING THE LEAST EXTENSION TO LENSES
« Reply #8 on: July 01, 2015, 20:45:18 »
It appears from the wide angle shots here that this was shot next to a sunlit window. Just looking at the photos, I can't rule out that the natural light didn't change between shots, thereby affecting the contrast.
Keith B., Santa Monica, CA, USA

PedroS

  • NG Member
  • *
  • Posts: 412
  • You ARE NikonGear
Re: ADDING THE LEAST EXTENSION TO LENSES
« Reply #9 on: July 01, 2015, 21:10:05 »
 ???

It's not dull, it's some sort of ghost around the focus elements...

Bernard Delley

  • NG Member
  • *
  • Posts: 136
  • You ARE NikonGear
Re: ADDING THE LEAST EXTENSION TO LENSES
« Reply #10 on: July 02, 2015, 11:08:36 »
Michael,
are you really saying that the Zeiss 135 is better than the Lanthar 125 even when adding a lot of extension? For example, if my quick calculation is right, about 40mm extension would get the Zeiss, set already at its close focus, to a repro ratio of 1:2. Do you really say this would be better than the 125 which easily covers this range?

By looking at the specs of the Zeiss: 0.8m close focus and repro ratio 1:4 , I estimate that the floating elements  lengthen the focal length to about 160mm when set to 0.8m.  This the works out to the additional extension of 40mm  needed for 1:2.


Bjørn Rørslett

  • Fierce Bear of the North
  • Administrator
  • ***
  • Posts: 8252
  • Oslo, Norway
Re: ADDING THE LEAST EXTENSION TO LENSES
« Reply #11 on: July 02, 2015, 12:05:45 »
The Zeiss lenses I've used so far have had their issues with axial colour (longitudinal CA). The APO-Lanthar lacks this entirely. An extension tube can never improve the optical quality of a host lens, only reduce it and/or bring forth spherical and chromatic aberrations not disclosed by the naked lens.

I remain doubtful about the assertion of Zeiss supremacy unless supprting evidence can be produced. If such evidence indeed exists, I'm happy to be proved wrong of course.