Author Topic: Found a Noct...  (Read 36700 times)

JJChan

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Re: Found a Noct...
« Reply #15 on: August 17, 2016, 01:21:26 »
Buying and reselling seems a safe option though, since the likelyhood of any similar MF lens to be produced is close to zero - Zeiss' closest matches have been released twice (Otus and Milvus versions), Samyang released a 50/1.4 that is not bad...

And concerning the MF standard lenses, I have yet to find a long nose 50/1.8 AIS.

I still have the Neo-noct as an option (a second hand one is still available, it seems...), but at 1100€.

Airy - since you've corrupted me to getting the Zeiss 50/2 let me go the other way!

I have the Noct & the Neo- Noct.

For sure the Neo Noct is good - the AF really helps especially as my eyes do not seem as good every year. But the real Noct has some subjective edge in micro contrast and finer details. It has significant field curvature but what is in focus is very sharp and gives high detail. It's like having the really sharp crispness of the Sigma 50ART but with character and presence (Sigma has almost none). The Noct is also really nice to use - it will still be around even when the AF motor of the NeoNoct has died and plastic has cracked.

No one can say whether that is all worth the considerable asking price. I had doubts when I first got mine but now I wish I had bought a spare when they were more affordable! In short, I don't think you will regret it.

I'll try to post some later (v busy this week).

Ps I have long nose 50/1.8 which came with my FE2 thrown in free. Have short nose that came with FG bought at stall. Not sure that long nose is way more special? Will have to investigate when have time!

Good luck JJ

Akira

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Re: Found a Noct...
« Reply #16 on: August 17, 2016, 01:55:43 »
Airy, have you considered Milvis 50/1.4?  It's way cheaper than the Noct you are looking at, it's still fast and apparently it's unprecedented at least here in NG (ahhh I miss that devil emoticon!).
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Airy

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Re: Found a Noct...
« Reply #17 on: August 17, 2016, 05:56:56 »
Thanks JJ, I'm still pondering and you are not helping ;)
Akira, that other Zeiss lens is interesting but big and heavy. Moreover, I've not seen any 2nd hand sample for sale. Not yet.
Airy Magnien

Fons Baerken

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Re: Found a Noct...
« Reply #18 on: August 17, 2016, 07:12:05 »
Df 55mm f/1.2 @ f11


Airy

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Re: Found a Noct...
« Reply #19 on: August 17, 2016, 08:21:00 »
55 or 58 ?
Airy Magnien

Bjørn Rørslett

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Re: Found a Noct...
« Reply #20 on: August 17, 2016, 09:21:54 »
There is a 55/1.2 Nikkor as well, the predecessor to the current 50/1.2. Fons probably used that one. Like most 50-58 lenses, it is pretty sharp once stopped down a bit.

Michael Erlewine

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Re: Found a Noct...
« Reply #21 on: August 17, 2016, 09:39:42 »
I don’t have the neo-Noct, but I do have the original. What I value in the Noct Nikkor compared to the charts I read from the new version is the much greater central sharpness. If you look at the MTF charts, the difference between the two lenses as regard the center is large. The fact that the neo-Noct is flatter and sharper in the corners does not matter to me because I value the field curvature of the Noct. The original Noct has a style that is probably largely caused by its faults, IMO. I like that style. As for its heft, holding one in your hand, well, what’s not to like?
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Bjørn Rørslett

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Re: Found a Noct...
« Reply #22 on: August 17, 2016, 10:12:28 »
There is much more to the Noct than its score on test charts. One has to use the lens to appreciate how different it really is from the ordinary crowd. If it is always set to very small apertures, its special character is lost and it behaves like any fast 'normal' lens. Open it up wide and play with it there and magic can result provided the photographer can deliver the required ingredients.

It is unfortunate this lens has become a collector's item and price on the second-hand market is disproportionally high. On the flip side, any collector trying to use it will likely be disappointed (due to lack of understanding its character?) and might get rid of the lens, thus there seems to be an endless stream of Nocts for sale.

longzoom

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Re: Found a Noct...
« Reply #23 on: August 17, 2016, 13:20:04 »
There is much more to the Noct than its score on test charts. One has to use the lens to appreciate how different it really is from the ordinary crowd. If it is always set to very small apertures, its special character is lost and it behaves like any fast 'normal' lens. Open it up wide and play with it there and magic can result provided the photographer can deliver the required ingredients.

It is unfortunate this lens has become a collector's item and price on the second-hand market is disproportionally high. On the flip side, any collector trying to use it will likely be disappointed (due to lack of understanding its character?) and might get rid of the lens, thus there seems to be an endless stream of Nocts for sale.
. Agree, absolutely. Unfortunately, I have no use for the Noct wide open, for what it was directly created, to work on films. It is not working for me on D800-810 sensors wide open, at all. Much, much better, incomparable better, I would say, is Otus 55. This one is, practically, flat field lens. For the same amount of money, even cheaper, sometimes! It appears on E-Bay, in brand new conditions, for $2700-3000, as from UK right now! It is my own opinion, of course, for what this forum was created, I believe.  THX!  LZ

Ilkka Nissilä

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Re: Found a Noct...
« Reply #24 on: August 17, 2016, 13:24:52 »
I recall the Noct-Nikkor was extremely expensive when it was still available new, in its last years; the current second hand price is close to the inflation adjusted new price of the mid 1990s.

I like the AF-S 58/1.4 as the autofocus makes it practical for me to use for events and the colours have nice "pop" thanks to the nano coating. I am fairly sure I could not focus the 58/1.2 reliably. Perhaps with the latest viewfinders this might be possible, but the cost of the lens is an issue.

Bjørn Rørslett

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Re: Found a Noct...
« Reply #25 on: August 17, 2016, 13:55:20 »
One could turn the argument inside-out and claim the acid test for a viewfinder is whether a Noct can be reliably focused with it. Most modern cameras will fail this test as their finders are too fine-grained and bright (designed for AF).

The Df is OK though, and with the K3 screen installed even better. The D500 usually allows a precise focus with the Nocts although there is the occasional glitch. My Fuji S5Pro has not a very bright finder and focusing the Noct is quite easy; however, as my camera is modified to be broad band, final focus might be perfect in finder and off at the film plane (in practice, no LV with the Fuji). I guess recent cameras such as D610, D810, and the D4/5 series will allow LV focusing with a Noct.

Erik Lund

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Re: Found a Noct...
« Reply #26 on: August 17, 2016, 14:31:13 »
The build quality and feel of the Noct-Nikkor is really nice and it will hold up to most - For a long time it was more or les my standard walk around lens. Highly recommended as it is a joy to use even on the high MP cameras of today - It really shines.

Quite clearly the Noct-Nikkor is a very special lens and there is nothing currently that has the same performance. The 58mm f/1.4 AFS comes close in overall performance and IMHO you would be very hard pressed to see the difference between the two. The curvature of field is still there to some extent up close, sombrero effect - Not an issue for most photographic assignments where you would pull out these lenses... Bokeh is so similar - Outstanding.

The Otus is a clinical correct lens, more similar to the Micro-Nikkor lenses with flat field and high resolution performance.

Noct-Nikkor MF performance is quite OK on a D3 IMHO

The 58mm f/1.4 AFS is a slow focusing lens like the other 1.4 G lenses- except the new 105mm which should be very fast by just looking at the design,,,
Erik Lund

chambeshi

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Re: Found a Noct...
« Reply #27 on: August 17, 2016, 14:46:21 »
I recall the Noct-Nikkor was extremely expensive when it was still available new, in its last years; the current second hand price is close to the inflation adjusted new price of the mid 1990s.

There was discussion earlier this year on NG on comparing the two [Noct vs Neo-Noct]. It is unlikely i will ever own a Noct as too many other priorities for wide-angle and telephoto glassware!

Given the precision craftsmanship by Nikon on each lens, one way to appreciate a Noct-Nikkor is as a bespoke lens in its own class. And as argued above, the value of a Noct of decent quality is unlikely to depreciate.

These two tests are useful...and see more background following....

https://photographylife.com/reviews/nikon-noct-nikkor-58mm-f1-2

https://photographylife.com/reviews/nikon-58mm-f1-4g

This story was told to me by Ernie Mastroianni, then photo editor of Birder's Worldmagazine, in September 2006:
"About 10 years ago, a photographer at the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel (I was a photo editor there for 19 years) offered to sell me his Noct-Nikkor 58mm f/1.2 lens. He knew I was into astrophotography and thought that I might be interested in a high speed lens. He was right. I came up with the $175 that he needed and proceeded to enjoy taking pictures of the Milky Way with 20-second exposures, with no tracking and no star trails. It was an excellent portrait lens too, showing fantastic Bokeh and producing some excellent results for group and family pictures, being sharp from edge-to-edge.
But as I migrated to digital, I found that the lens was a bit too long and it could not be converted to a D-lens. It sat on my shelf until I noticed that someone sold one on eBay for about $1,200, although I was not sure if it was a scam.
So I put my own lens up for sale, hoping I might get a legitimate offer of about $1,000. The bidding immediately passed $1,000, but it was all from folks with new identities or very low bidding histories. One bidder, with a big 0 for a history, kept bidding it up beyond anyone else, until it climbed over $2,000. Too good to be true, I thought, and this looks like a scam.
So I wrote the bidder, and said I was wise to the usual tricks, that he better pay with a money order from a real bank and it has to be for the exact amount. I won't ship to Indonesia and I'll hold the lens till the check clears, blah blah blah.
The bidder wrote back. He was a buyer for the Princeton Particle Physics Laboratory, and he needed the lens for some exotic physics experiment. His scientists said that only the 58mm f/1.2 Noct-Nikkor would work. Not the 55mm, not the 50mm. Just the 58. His story checked out, the lab was real. He needed my 58mm lens and the US government was willing to pay whatever it took. In fact, he needed SIX of the lenses. He was happy to hear from me, because he was getting hounded by scam artists who were trying to sell lenses that they did not have. He had no eBay identity because of government regulations.
So he bought the lens for about $2,100, which financed my Nikon D80 and a high-end pair of astronomy binoculars. I later saw that he shelled out about $2,600 for some other Noct-Nikkors that did not appear to be as pristine as the lens I sold him.
A fun story, and I got some cool stuff out of it, but to tell you the truth, I do miss that lens. There was something about it that always produced sharp, saturated images." source >> http://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/58.htm

Nikkor - One Thousand and One Nights:
http://www.nikkor.com/story/0016/

"From manufacturing to inspection, they spent so much time and effort on this lens."

JJChan

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Re: Found a Noct...
« Reply #28 on: August 17, 2016, 15:14:56 »
Df 55mm f/1.2 @ f11


That's beautiful Fons

Fons Baerken

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Re: Found a Noct...
« Reply #29 on: August 17, 2016, 17:21:06 »
thank you JJ