Author Topic: Nikon Sweden Service Stupidity ???  (Read 4832 times)

Geomiljo

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Nikon Sweden Service Stupidity ???
« on: July 04, 2016, 15:53:54 »
I am slightly in chock and very very angry....

Just called Nikon Sweden to check the approximate cost to change the front elements of the lenses 85G/1,4 and 300G/2.8....

Back in 2010 or there about I made a similar call to a service facility called "Lasses" in Stockholm that were also authorized by Nikon to service their products. My 300G was new at the time, and I just wanted to find out the cost if I accidentally were to scratch the front element, I just wanted to know how careful I needed to be in harsh environment perhaps by the shore with lots of sand grains in the wind etc.

Don´t remember what approximate cost "Lasse" told me, but I remember it wasn´t really that expensive considering the cost of the lens, or for that matter, the theoretical cost of a high performance UV-filter big enough to fit that lens, if there had been one on the market. So, just use the lens even in really bad weather and be happy, I told myself.

As I am now planning some new photography in potentiella "sandy" environments I was thinking, better check up on those prices again... How careful do I need to be.... So I called Nikon Sweden this time as "Lasses" has retired.

They tell me that I have to send the lenses to Nikon to get a cost estimate.


So I try to explain that my lenses are fine, it´s just "risk assessment" on my part as I am planning some "dirty" work, and I stress over and over again that I just want an approximate price, not any formal offer, just the typical cost for such repair, changing the front element and nothing more.

We can´t give you a price without inspecting the lenses first, you have to send the gear to Nikon, they tell me.

So again I say - and now I am starting to get pissed off, to put it mildly - speaking really slow, that IT  WILL  NOT  HELP   YOU  TO  INSPECT  THE  LENSES  SINCE  THEY  ARE  FINE  and that it´s just an approximate cost I need etc...

So then I am told that only the service personal could give such an estimate. Ahhh, I think, maybe the person I was talking to just had a hard time understanding my accent, or something, so I ask if perhaps I could speak to the appropriate service personal instead.

She puts me on hold to go and ask someone about the issue, and when she returs she says:

You have to send the gear to Nikon, we cannot give you an estimate over the phone.


The person I speak to says she understands my problem, but they cannot give me any kind of estimate of the cost for changing a front element until I actually need to change the element... their is nothing more she can do...

Well, with a deep red face, probably, voice slightly trembling with anger, I say something like it´s good to know I should not buy any more stuff from Nikon, and as I turn the phone off I hear her say "have I good day"....

AAAAAARG

After a few minutes, trying to cool down, I started wondering about the "the other company". Are they also stupid? Do they all behave like this? You know the one that starts with a "C".

So I check the internet for the closest C..... Service facility, seems to be in Gothenburg, and it takes about 3 - 4 minutes to learn that:

There is a fixed price for changing the front element of the C....... 85/1,2L - 2200 SEK (thats about 260 USD).
The fixed price for the latest C........ 300/2.8 is 4500 SEK (540 USD).
Prices are fixed if I accept them directly, otherwise I can also choose to send the lenses in for a cost estimate, a good alternative if there also is other damage to the lens.

Rapid respons, and fair prices, I think.

OK, writing about this has cooled me down a little, but frankly, it is really reasonable to keep a fairly standard type of service as some kind av secret? It means that Nikon can charge me anything they like to fix a potential scratch on my 300. Do they know the meaning av "customer support"?

I have been thinking of getting a fixed wide angle lens for some time, perhaps the 24/1,4, or the 14-24, however this phone call has put me off completely, especially regarding the 14-24 it would be good to know the cost for changing that huge front element...

/Johan

 


Eric Borgström

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Re: Nikon Sweden Service Stupidity ???
« Reply #1 on: July 04, 2016, 16:17:15 »
Was not the Swedish service center axed in Nikon's latest cost cutting? Might explain the incompetent response you got.


http://nikonrumors.com/2016/05/20/nikon-has-started-massive-cost-cutting-measures-all-over-the-world.aspx/
   
/Eric

Bjørn Rørslett

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Re: Nikon Sweden Service Stupidity ???
« Reply #2 on: July 04, 2016, 16:50:30 »
On a general note, being hot headed when dealing with a repair centre  will do one little good in the longer run.

That being said, in order to provide the price estimate, the exact model of the lens(es) is required so as to find the spare part(s) in their inventory lists. Of course providing the serial number(s) and general model data should suffice. What ultimately sets the repair pricing is the time taken for the tech to do the service job. That in turn depends on the actual condition of the lens etc. thus asking for the physical lens isn't as stupid as one might be inclined to think.

If you are interested, I probably can get preliminary estimates from the Norwegian repair facility.

A long lens is best protected by always keeping its lens hood firmly attached. Scratches in the front element, if they occur, will have much less detrimental impact on image quality than one might think. However, avoiding a damage to the optics is always the better approach.
 
Finally, keep in mind the supply of spare parts for any model will not last forever and the maker only produces parts for an estimated consumption of such parts for ten years.




Ilkka Nissilä

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Re: Nikon Sweden Service Stupidity ???
« Reply #3 on: July 04, 2016, 16:50:39 »
I think the issue is a legal one, if they give you an estimate and then it turns out to be more costly, it can be a problem. Anyway I would at the very least put an NC filter on the lens if you're going to a sandy environment. I imagine sand can be of different sizes and can enter even the best shielded lens, causing squeaking etc.

As for outsourcing service, this can be a bad thing especially when Nikon is being criticized for the level of service and customer support that they offer. I think it would be better if they kept it all in house and worked to improve it.

Bjørn Rørslett

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Re: Nikon Sweden Service Stupidity ???
« Reply #4 on: July 04, 2016, 16:52:15 »
Outsourcing repair of non-pro gear has been the practice for all major camera players for some time now.

Geomiljo

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Re: Nikon Sweden Service Stupidity ???
« Reply #5 on: July 04, 2016, 17:16:15 »
On a general note, being hot headed when dealing with a repair centre  will do one little good in the longer run.

That being said, in order to provide the price estimate, the exact model of the lens(es) is required so as to find the spare part(s) in their inventory lists. Of course providing the serial number(s) and general model data should suffice. What ultimately sets the repair pricing is the time taken for the tech to do the service job. That in turn depends on the actual condition of the lens etc. thus asking for the physical lens isn't as stupid as one might be inclined to think.

If you are interested, I probably can get preliminary estimates from the Norwegian repair facility.

A long lens is best protected by always keeping its lens hood firmly attached. Scratches in the front element, if they occur, will have much less detrimental impact on image quality than one might think. However, avoiding a damage to the optics is always the better approach.
 
Finally, keep in mind the supply of spare parts for any model will not last forever and the maker only produces parts for an estimated consumption of such parts for ten years.


A preliminary estimate from Norway would be very much appreciated, never mind the 85 mm, complete destruction would´t be the end of the world, and it is of course possible to attach a UV-filter. The 300/2,8 is a different story, it´s the VR I version, but if I remember correctly the optical design is the same as in the present VR II version, so the front element should be available for at least 10 more years?

And yes the hood is ALWAYS on when the lens is in use, and so far, no scratching at all....

I know that being hot-headed is a bad idea, and I normally can keep cool, but what really got me going this time was the understanding that a service technician could have answered my question, but that I was not allowed to talk to one...

/Johan

Bjørn Rørslett

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Re: Nikon Sweden Service Stupidity ???
« Reply #6 on: July 04, 2016, 17:41:43 »
These 300 mm models might not be identical. The front protector is actually a meniscus lens thus it needs to be of the correct size and curvature.

While the maker makes spare parts for an estimated 10 years of service after the lens is discontinued, variations in the demand for parts might mean some part supplies are exhausted quicker than the others.

I have built relationships with the staff of the national repair centre for decades and this long-term investment pays off.

Send me the serial numbers in a PM and I'll see what can be done. It's the summer season, though, and my contacts might be on vacation.

Frank Fremerey

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Re: Nikon Sweden Service Stupidity ???
« Reply #7 on: July 04, 2016, 17:45:50 »
This lens has no filter thread on its front? Only the 52mm drop-in? Elder 2.8/300mm had a 122mm screw in filter.

Could there be another means of protection in sandy environments?

Speaking of service centers I do not envy you. I am blessed with wonderful and helpful people here in Cologne. A very important reason for me to stay with Nikon. Good luck!
You are out there. You and your camera. You can shoot or not shoot as you please. Discover the world, Your world. Show it to us. Or we might never see it.

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Geomiljo

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Re: Nikon Sweden Service Stupidity ???
« Reply #8 on: July 04, 2016, 18:23:57 »
No, only the 52 mm drop in.

Nice to hear about Nikon Germany.

Reminds me that I bought a lens directly from Zeiss about 10 years ago, great service and they have also been very easy to communicate with via e-mail on several occasions. So when wide angle gear lust strikes again - maybe another manual focus Zeiss will be on top of my list.

/Johan
 

Frank Fremerey

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Re: Nikon Sweden Service Stupidity ???
« Reply #9 on: July 04, 2016, 18:53:13 »
About your wide angle plans:

I have the 1.4/24mm G from Nikon. A dream of a lens. Just wonderful and I hear similar things about the 1.8/24mm G that came out much later.

Earlier in life I had the 2.8/24 AF the 2.8/24 AF (2nd edition, very different) and the 2.8/24 AF-D ... these are not recommended ... if you want something small there is still the option for a 2.8/24 Ai and the 2.8/24 Ai-S .. I went for the 2.0/24 Ai which is a wonderful small lens. Crazy bokeh wide open and very well behaved, almost perfect at f=4. Not easy to find a good copy though. If you got one, keep it. I sold mine because I simply did not use it after getting the 1.4/24G. Today I tend to shoot more manual glass and I think I should have kept it.

Outsourcing is not always a bad thing The NPS guys in Cologne are "Albrecht Kamera Service", a family run business who not only do a great job for a decent tariff but are very friendly and helpful also.
You are out there. You and your camera. You can shoot or not shoot as you please. Discover the world, Your world. Show it to us. Or we might never see it.

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Geomiljo

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Re: Nikon Sweden Service Stupidity ???
« Reply #10 on: July 04, 2016, 20:28:34 »
Thanks for your comments, and yes, it´s the 1.4/24 G I have mostly been interested in. A few years ago on the Nikongear workshop in Bergen, Erik Lund kindly borrowed me his copy to play around with, and it just seemed right, somehow. But since I also have the 24 - 70 and for my professional work - simple documentation of geological field-work - for that use that lens is just perfect, I still haven´t done anything about any wide angle prime. Of course the zoom does not compare, but for most things it´s "good enough".

I almost got the 24/1.4 a few weeks ago when Nikon had some kind of "cash-back" offer, but apparently there were no lenses in stock. So the cash-back was´t very useful...

So now I am also looking at the ZF 25/2.0. However, buying a lens now that I don´t really NEED, that should last a "life-time", when there perhaps should be a slightly upgraded version coming up soon (Milvus ?), well, it makes it difficult to decide. 

Interesting to hear about the Albrecht Kamera Service, I´ll check them up online.

/Johan

Frank Fremerey

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Re: Nikon Sweden Service Stupidity ???
« Reply #11 on: July 04, 2016, 20:56:36 »
The 24-70 is better in many respects. It is a high contrast design for everday work that nearly falls out of your camera to deliver to your client barely unedited. It features very fast AF even on slow AF cameras like the D3.

The 1.4/24G is a very fine detail rendering design of much lower contrast. Wide open you can see some "mistakes" in the rendering that were intentionally not corrected to give it a certain character, one might call it "magic".

On the D500 and D5 and quite possible further fith generation cameras the AF is unbelievably fast and precise, which again makes is my favorite lens. It is more or less always on the "motorized" D500 (~10 Days of shooting with one basttery load!), only for my first steps into birding I take it off and put the 300PF on. Another dream combination. Oh, the D500, I can sing a song of her.
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MartinH

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Re: Nikon Sweden Service Stupidity ???
« Reply #12 on: August 13, 2016, 20:30:06 »
For what it's worth, I experienced the same behaviour on their (Nikon Sweden´s) part about a year ago. About a month ahead of a combined work/safari trip to south africa, I tried to find out if my d700 could be fixed in time for the trip if I sent it in for replacing peeling rubber parts. No matter of polite arguing could get them to even acknowledge that a specific service job like this could exist separately from inspecting and evaluating the camera in total .
Every effort on my part to explain that I was currently only interested in fixing the peeling grips was met with:" Without sending the camera in, we cannot tell you what is wrong with it, and how much time it will take".
In the end it was obvious the people doing the actual customer contact part of the job did not have any tech competence at all, they are only there to keep us from bothering the repair team at all cost. Made me quite upset at the time.
Some time later, with more time on my hands I sent in my back-focusing Df and all my lenses for calibration. That worked out fine, and was dealt with quickly and with full info on what was done (including a new zoom ring for my 70-200 VR II), so if you go by their rules they do a good job.

Still, even though I realize that some questions are complex and difficult to answer, especially when it comes to quotes, i feel this policy of screening out any questions whatever their nature is asking for trouble. As reasonably knowledgeable customers we deserve something better than a "send the camera in or go away"-response.
Still, it hasn't made me switch.... I picked up a D5 a week ago, couldn't be happier with it for my uses, but am somewhat dreading the next time i need support...

/Martin

Jyda

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Re: Nikon Sweden Service Stupidity ???
« Reply #13 on: August 13, 2016, 23:09:45 »
I miss Lasses kameraservice. They were great to deal with and had fair prices.

Haven't delt that much with the Nikon service center in Sweden even though they are in walking distance from where I live. Too bad if they are cutting down on staff.
Johnny Dahlén

richardHaw

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Re: Nikon Sweden Service Stupidity ???
« Reply #14 on: August 14, 2016, 02:39:28 »
that might be a company-wide policy. Nikon will always fix other problems apart from what you told them. for example, my friend got an ERR problem with his D800 and Nikon also insisted on fixing the cracked top plate. :o :o :o I guess they are just being safe in case they need to milk you more money ::)