Author Topic: RZ Lenses on a DSLR: A Bridge Too Far... (probably)  (Read 4627 times)

Michael Erlewine

  • Close-Up Photographer
  • NG Supporter
  • **
  • Posts: 2067
  • Close-Up with APO
    • Spirit Grooves
RZ Lenses on a DSLR: A Bridge Too Far... (probably)
« on: July 01, 2016, 15:43:43 »
Just as “Rust Never Sleeps,” “Lens Curiosity Never Rests” either, and here is a good example. Left over from my MF Mamiya RZ67 days, I have a couple lenses that did not sell or I did not sell them. I had eleven lenses at one point.

Chief among these is the Mamiya 250 f/4.5 APO Tele lens. The beast weighs three lbs. A few years ago I managed to get a copy of the Fotodiox PRO RZ67-Nikon adapter, which actually works. It has small helicoid ring in it, and a foot that will take the load off your Nikon camera. The bare truth is that, when used, the foot is not strong enough and the ring (with lens mounted) turns like a can opener, i.e. very slow and jerky.

Anyway, I noticed that the Cambo Actus has a lens board just for the RB/RZ67 MF camera, so this got me to thinking. So, there being wind today and rain last night, I won’t do much focus stacking in the fields today, like: none.

So I got out the Mamiya 250mm and the Fotodiox adapter and then added a Mamiya extension tube (#1) to this whole deal (to bring it closer) and mounted it on a tripod with the Nikon D810. The lens, extension, and adapter together weigh 4-3/8 lbs. and, as mentioned, don’t stress the camera, but certainly stress that tiny foot on the adapter.

Even with the adapter the near focus is something like 10 feet. I include a photo taken with the setup and then a crop that shows the common Milkweed beetle that is part of it. Focus was almost impossible because the helicoid, as mentioned, jerks the whole setup with every attempt to turn it. Nevertheless, the lens is quite sharp. I include another photo of the arm of one of our outside wooden chairs as a second example.

No, I won’t ever use that adapter again, but I still am curious how it might do on the Actus with the ability to smoothly focus it. Anyone have any experience with this lens or comments?
MichaelErlewine.smugmug.com, Daily Blog at https://www.facebook.com/MichaelErlewine. main site: SpiritGrooves.net, https://www.youtube.com/user/merlewine, Founder: MacroStop.com, All-Music Guide, All-Movie Guide, Classic Posters.com, Matrix Software, DharmaGrooves.com

Bjørn Rørslett

  • Fierce Bear of the North
  • Administrator
  • ***
  • Posts: 8252
  • Oslo, Norway
Re: RZ Lenses on a DSLR: A Bridge Too Far... (probably)
« Reply #1 on: July 01, 2016, 16:13:12 »
The last image made my eyes cringe. The darned lens is apparently so heavy that the helicoid is visibly bending off the optical axis. That explains the 'jerking' you mentioned. You need much better support for the lens than the setup shown ...

Michael Erlewine

  • Close-Up Photographer
  • NG Supporter
  • **
  • Posts: 2067
  • Close-Up with APO
    • Spirit Grooves
Re: RZ Lenses on a DSLR: A Bridge Too Far... (probably)
« Reply #2 on: July 01, 2016, 16:20:37 »
The last image made my eyes cringe. The darned lens is apparently so heavy that the helicoid is visibly bending off the optical axis. That explains the 'jerking' you mentioned. You need much better support for the lens than the setup shown ...

Totally agree. Most of the stress was on the adapter foot, but I won't try that again. I wanted to see how sharp this lens was on a DSLR, and the answer is that it is quite sharp. My question is how would it behave on the Actus mount, and I am discussing with the distributor right now the stress that would go on the Actus mount. They are testing it with a Mamiya 250mm lens, which they have on hand.
MichaelErlewine.smugmug.com, Daily Blog at https://www.facebook.com/MichaelErlewine. main site: SpiritGrooves.net, https://www.youtube.com/user/merlewine, Founder: MacroStop.com, All-Music Guide, All-Movie Guide, Classic Posters.com, Matrix Software, DharmaGrooves.com

Bjørn Rørslett

  • Fierce Bear of the North
  • Administrator
  • ***
  • Posts: 8252
  • Oslo, Norway
Re: RZ Lenses on a DSLR: A Bridge Too Far... (probably)
« Reply #3 on: July 01, 2016, 16:29:50 »
For such applications, you should have the helicoid removed and only optics and aperture control remain. That would make the setup much lighter, more flexible, and add versatility in use.

If the lens 'head' is shortened by the removal, consider adding a simple spacer to it to allow closer focus with the bellows draw available. I used this principle a lot with the Nikkor-T ED 270 mm f/6.3 on my large-format cameras.   

Michael Erlewine

  • Close-Up Photographer
  • NG Supporter
  • **
  • Posts: 2067
  • Close-Up with APO
    • Spirit Grooves
Re: RZ Lenses on a DSLR: A Bridge Too Far... (probably)
« Reply #4 on: July 01, 2016, 16:36:03 »
For such applications, you should have the helicoid removed and only optics and aperture control remain. That would make the setup much lighter, more flexible, and add versatility in use.

If the lens 'head' is shortened by the removal, consider adding a simple spacer to it to allow closer focus with the bellows draw available. I used this principle a lot with the Nikkor-T ED 270 mm f/6.3 on my large-format cameras.

where would I get such removal done?
MichaelErlewine.smugmug.com, Daily Blog at https://www.facebook.com/MichaelErlewine. main site: SpiritGrooves.net, https://www.youtube.com/user/merlewine, Founder: MacroStop.com, All-Music Guide, All-Movie Guide, Classic Posters.com, Matrix Software, DharmaGrooves.com

Michael Erlewine

  • Close-Up Photographer
  • NG Supporter
  • **
  • Posts: 2067
  • Close-Up with APO
    • Spirit Grooves
Re: RZ Lenses on a DSLR: A Bridge Too Far... (probably)
« Reply #5 on: July 01, 2016, 16:41:08 »
where would I get such removal done?

Actually the RZ lenses don't have a helicoid. They focus by the bellows in the camera.
MichaelErlewine.smugmug.com, Daily Blog at https://www.facebook.com/MichaelErlewine. main site: SpiritGrooves.net, https://www.youtube.com/user/merlewine, Founder: MacroStop.com, All-Music Guide, All-Movie Guide, Classic Posters.com, Matrix Software, DharmaGrooves.com

Bjørn Rørslett

  • Fierce Bear of the North
  • Administrator
  • ***
  • Posts: 8252
  • Oslo, Norway
Re: RZ Lenses on a DSLR: A Bridge Too Far... (probably)
« Reply #6 on: July 01, 2016, 16:48:25 »
OK. Then one thing less to worry about. You still need a good  brace for supporting such a heavy lens.

Michael Erlewine

  • Close-Up Photographer
  • NG Supporter
  • **
  • Posts: 2067
  • Close-Up with APO
    • Spirit Grooves
Re: RZ Lenses on a DSLR: A Bridge Too Far... (probably)
« Reply #7 on: July 01, 2016, 16:57:12 »
OK. Then one thing less to worry about. You still need a good  brace for supporting such a heavy lens.

Right you are. I am talking about mounting it on the Cambo Actus or another bellows-based camera. They have tested it with the Mamiya RZ 250mm Tele lens and even at full-tilt, it does pretty well. I am not sure, because of the size of the beast, that any lens qualities are worth all the trouble, considering I have a good number of excellent lenses already. As I mentioned, I am afraid the whole setup is a "bridge too far" for even me. Yes, it works... and yes there are some decent to very good RZ lenses, but so what. It's not about to beat the El Nikkor APOs, and so on.  You mentioned previously that the El Nikkor APO 210mm was too large for the D810. I hear that, but can't help but wonder just what do you get from the 210 APO that would be worth considering it. It is heavy, also, right?
MichaelErlewine.smugmug.com, Daily Blog at https://www.facebook.com/MichaelErlewine. main site: SpiritGrooves.net, https://www.youtube.com/user/merlewine, Founder: MacroStop.com, All-Music Guide, All-Movie Guide, Classic Posters.com, Matrix Software, DharmaGrooves.com

Bjørn Rørslett

  • Fierce Bear of the North
  • Administrator
  • ***
  • Posts: 8252
  • Oslo, Norway
Re: RZ Lenses on a DSLR: A Bridge Too Far... (probably)
« Reply #8 on: July 01, 2016, 18:10:37 »
The 210 AM is for larger formats than what the 120 AM covers. Their designs otherwise are for all intents the same, thus it is optimised for 1:1. It is much biger than the 120 and presumably more expensive as well.

This means on a smaller format you simple waste more of its image circle and need more extension to get to the same magnification as the 120 AM provides. On the flip side, you will reach 1:1 at somewhat longer working distance, but the added extension required, resulting in a much larger package, will mitigate this advantage

Michael Erlewine

  • Close-Up Photographer
  • NG Supporter
  • **
  • Posts: 2067
  • Close-Up with APO
    • Spirit Grooves
Re: RZ Lenses on a DSLR: A Bridge Too Far... (probably)
« Reply #9 on: July 01, 2016, 19:21:48 »
The 210 AM is for larger formats than what the 120 AM covers. Their designs otherwise are for all intents the same, thus it is optimised for 1:1. It is much biger than the 120 and presumably more expensive as well.

This means on a smaller format you simple waste more of its image circle and need more extension to get to the same magnification as the 120 AM provides. On the flip side, you will reach 1:1 at somewhat longer working distance, but the added extension required, resulting in a much larger package, will mitigate this advantage

As usual, your knowledge is always helpful Thank you for this and for all that you have done for myself and I imagine many, many people who care about lenses.
MichaelErlewine.smugmug.com, Daily Blog at https://www.facebook.com/MichaelErlewine. main site: SpiritGrooves.net, https://www.youtube.com/user/merlewine, Founder: MacroStop.com, All-Music Guide, All-Movie Guide, Classic Posters.com, Matrix Software, DharmaGrooves.com

Bill De Jager

  • NG Supporter
  • **
  • Posts: 579
Re: RZ Lenses on a DSLR: A Bridge Too Far... (probably)
« Reply #10 on: July 02, 2016, 01:09:52 »
OK. Then one thing less to worry about. You still need a good  brace for supporting such a heavy lens.

Really Right Stuff has long lens support systems that take the stress off the lens mount: http://www.reallyrightstuff.com/Quick-Release/Multi-Purpose-Rails-Packages/Long-Lens-Support-Packages.

Hugh_3170

  • NG Supporter
  • **
  • Posts: 2127
  • Back in Melbourne!
Re: RZ Lenses on a DSLR: A Bridge Too Far... (probably)
« Reply #11 on: July 02, 2016, 03:53:39 »
The lens and its extension tube certainly needs support  -  or maybe a large shot of Viagra might be in order!  ;D  ;D  ;D

Really Right Stuff has long lens support systems that take the stress off the lens mount: http://www.reallyrightstuff.com/Quick-Release/Multi-Purpose-Rails-Packages/Long-Lens-Support-Packages.
Hugh Gunn

David H. Hartman

  • NG Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2787
  • I Doctor Photographs... :)
Re: RZ Lenses on a DSLR: A Bridge Too Far... (probably)
« Reply #12 on: July 04, 2016, 09:22:15 »
Really Right Stuff has long lens support systems that take the stress off the lens mount: http://www.reallyrightstuff.com/Quick-Release/Multi-Purpose-Rails-Packages/Long-Lens-Support-Packages.

The $290.00 RRS package looks like it would be idea for non-IF Nikkors like the 400/5.6 ED AI and 300/4.5 AI. I use a finger or a thumb to lighten the load on the helicoid to make the focus easy and smooth all the way to the closest focus distance with my 400/5.6 ED AI.

Dave.
Beatniks are out to make it rich
Oh no, must be the season of the witch!