D76 fixers and stop bath

[richardHaw]

Hi! haven't developed my own film for more than a decade i recall using ascetic acid for stop bath and no-name fixers that can be bought in small packets for single use. they don't sell them here. so what do you guys recommend for D76 on 400 Tri-X?  there are some chemistry being sold here that i am not familiar with like Chugai (Ilford licensed company) and there are no literature available on the net, even for their own product!

[Bjørn Rørslett]

Acetic acid (strong) as a stop bath. A solution of Sodium thiosulphate as a fixing agent.

[richardHaw]

Acetic acid (strong) as a stop bath. A solution of Sodium thiosulphate as a fixing agent.

Thanks! I just need to figure out the quantity for ascetic acid. these are generic ones so I may need some experimenting.

Sodium thiosulphate  <- I may need to know what this thing is called locally.

I remember Kodak selling these chemicals as a kit, do they have a name? maybe I can import them with amazon 

There are a couple of Japanese brands here but I just don't know how to use them.

[Akira]

Sodium thiosulphate  <- I may need to know what this thing is called locally.

It is called:　チオ硫酸ナトリウム（Na2S2O2）

Good luck!

[richardHaw]

It is called:　チオ硫酸ナトリウム（Na2S2O2）

Good luck!

maybe you know how the Chugai chemicals work!?

[Akira]

maybe you know how the Chugai chemicals work!?

I'm afraid I'm not familiar with any kinds of developing technique of films.

There are My Stop Bath and My Fixer on Chugai website.  And this is the link to the PDF file of their instruction manual:

http://www.chugai-photo.co.jp/pdf/mychemical.pdf

I would be glad to help translating the paragraphs you need, but I will go out at around 15:00.

[richardHaw]

I'm afraid I'm not familiar with any kinds of developing technique of films.

There are My Stop Bath and My Fixer on Chugai website.  And this is the link to the PDF file of their instruction manual:

http://www.chugai-photo.co.jp/pdf/mychemical.pdf

I would be glad to help translating the paragraphs you need, but I will go out at around 15:00.

Thanks for the PDF and the offer! 

i am actually more concerned with the effects on Tri-X. I am going to look for Kodak chemistry here

[Akira]

Apparently Kodak fixer is still available...

http://www.yodobashi.com/%E3%82%B3%E3%83%80%E3%83%83%E3%82%AF-Kodak-%E3%83%95%E3%82%A3%E3%82%AF%E3%82%B5%E3%83%BC-1GAL-5160320/pd/100000001001869500/

And this is the available linup of Kodak developping chemicals:

http://www.yodobashi.com/%E7%8F%BE%E5%83%8F%E7%94%A8%E8%96%AC%E5%93%81/ct/500000060015_500000000000000301/?count=24&disptyp=02&mkrbrnds=0000000658&page=1&searchtarget=prodname&sorttyp=COINCIDENCE_RANKING

[richardHaw]

Apparently Kodak fixer is still available...

http://www.yodobashi.com/%E3%82%B3%E3%83%80%E3%83%83%E3%82%AF-Kodak-%E3%83%95%E3%82%A3%E3%82%AF%E3%82%B5%E3%83%BC-1GAL-5160320/pd/100000001001869500/

And this is the available linup of Kodak developping chemicals:

http://www.yodobashi.com/%E7%8F%BE%E5%83%8F%E7%94%A8%E8%96%AC%E5%93%81/ct/500000060015_500000000000000301/?count=24&disptyp=02&mkrbrnds=0000000658&page=1&searchtarget=prodname&sorttyp=COINCIDENCE_RANKING

Thanks. I will check for their availability
many photographers are angry at the protectionist pricing here in japan and i was told that plenty of japanese photographers just import from BH instead because of that

[Les Olson]

An acid stop bath is widely used because the developer needs an alkaline environment and the acid stops development more abruptly than just diluting the developer, but it is not really necessary - a plain water rinse works fine.  Acetic acid is smelly and strong solutions are irritant to nose, mouth and eyes.  A much better - safer, cheaper and easier to use - alternative is citric acid, which can be bought for a few dollars a kg in kitchen supply shops because people use it in baking and jam making.  The usual recipe is 15g/liter of plain water.  The commercial stop baths are all just citric acid - the only extra you get for your money is a pH indicator so you can reuse them until they change colour from yellow to purple, but citric acid is so cheap it is not worthwhile.   

Making your own developer and fixer is a bigger challenge because some of the chemicals are hard to use and/or dangerous.  If you really want to make your own the best recipe source is The Darkroom Cookbook by Steve Anchell (https://www.amazon.com/Darkroom-Cookbook-Stephen-G-Anchell/dp/0240804236/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1466149938&sr=1-2&keywords=anchell+darkroom+cookbook).  Note that there is an Ilford equivalent for all the Kodak developers (Ilford ID-11 is very nearly identical to D-76, eg) and the Ilford versions are often more widely available.

Ilford http://www.ilfordphoto.com/applications/page.asp?n=26 has lots of information and charts.

[Akira]

Thanks. I will check for their availability
many photographers are angry at the protectionist pricing here in japan and i was told that plenty of japanese photographers just import from BH instead because of that

Yeah, I know.  I also buy things from B&H or ebay.   

[Hugh_3170]

Hi Richard, white vinegar is just acetic acid and comes from the super market diluted to around 5%.  For stop bath use dilute it down to about 2%.  It has significant potential for reuse, but for casual use I would suggest just mixing up enough for just the films you need to process and then discard it after use.  Make sure that your developer, stop bath, and fixer are all at the same temperature - which most development tables have at  20 Deg C.  IIRC, a 1 Deg C increase in temperature speads up development by 10%, so times will need to be adjusted accordingly.  Plunging film into cold stop baths with significant temperature differences can cause damage to the film including reticulation.  Ilford used to have good instruction sheets with their chemicals.  I think I can track some of these down in the morning and scan them for you if you wish.  Clean water is a must and a water filter on your tap is highly desireable - else strain into a clean plastic bucket.

[Hugh_3170]

Richard, this is the Ilford instruction sheet from their website:  http://www.ilfordphoto.com/Webfiles/2011427133131459.pdf

ID-11 and D-76 are virtually identical, as Les Olson has already pointed out.  They give tables for Ilford and Kodak films

Acetic acid or White Vinegar (diluted to 2%) is a better option than water as a stop bath as any residual development is rapidly stopped dead by the acid - much faster than water alone and white vinegar is very inexpensive - maybe your wife has some already.

Fixing for archival use is sometimes done with two fixers - the first can be a replenished fixer that has been previously used that does the main part of the fixing, followed by a fresher sample of the same kind of fixer that is not depleted and can better get rid of the last vestiges of unexposed silver halide. 

One or two drops of a liquid dishwasing detergent can be used as a substitute wetting agent.  Note Ilford's alternative washing option - handy if scarcity of water makes using large volumes of water a problem.

Good luck.

[Les Olson]

there are some chemistry being sold here that i am not familiar with like Chugai (Ilford licensed company) and there are no literature available on the net, even for their own product!

Just to confuse everyone, there are two "Ilford" companies, which are unconnected.  The original Ilford founded in 1879 went into receivership in 2004 and was broken up.  It had been owned by ICI since 1959 and then by Ciba-Geigy when Ciba-Geigy took over ICI in 1969, and then by various venture capital firms after Ciba-Geigy sold it in 1989.  In 2005 there was a management buyout of the UK factory, under the name Harman Technology.  This company makes B&W - only B&W - film (Pan F, FP4, HP5, Delta Pro, XP2), paper and chemicals (and pinhole cameras) using the Ilford name, because that is what the factory in the UK used to make.  The Swiss factory of the original Ilford was bought by a Japanese company called Oji Paper, and it made inkjet printing and colour photographic products under the Ilford name - especially Ilford Gallerie paper, because that is what the factory in Fribourg used to make. 

In 2010 Ilford Switzerland was sold again, and the new owners have now set up Ilford Imaging Europe as a joint venture with Chugai Photo Chemical Company of Tokyo.  What Ilford Imaging Europe will make is not clear at this stage - but it won't be the "Ilford" B&W range.   

[richardHaw]

Thanks everybody for the information overload
i just got a bit dizzy trying to process it all 

i have plenty of ascetic acid, I use it as a dip for fried fish

well, I can buy industrial ascetic acid here (i found some) and they are so much cheaper than cane vinegar...citric acid is appealing because I have a baby so it is safe. regarding these, is there any chance that my film will get muddy from using these in the wrong way? which chemical will make the film brittle if soaked for too long.

i am currently not looking into making my own chemistry as i do not want to repeat the frustration i had before and the money that i lost through experimentation so i am going to buy only Kodak branded chemistry for consistency and maybe experiment as i get the hang of things.

i don't want to sound stupid but is the stop bath and fixer really as critical the developer?

oh,boy. I hate the dark bag routine....