Author Topic: D810 Build quality - Warning  (Read 41134 times)

Jan Anne

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Re: D810 Build quality - Warning
« Reply #15 on: May 25, 2016, 12:33:34 »
So....who's brave enough to check his D5?
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Jan Anne

Ilkka Nissilä

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Re: D810 Build quality - Warning
« Reply #16 on: May 25, 2016, 12:37:11 »
Upon impact, plastic has the ability to return to its original shape (to within limits) whereas metal, once it is bent, it stays bent.

My experience with the D810 has been very positive, it doesn't have any of the strange AF effects of the D800 that I had. The D810 shows much less colour and distance variability of autofocus error than the D800 which was a nightmare in that respect. E.g. the 105 DC autofocuses very nicely with a fixed -12 to -13 fine tune setting on my D810, whereas it required -20 at infinity and about 0 at close-up distances with the D800, which made its use extremely impractical. Now (with the D810) it works much like any lens, except the skin is so beautiful. I have noticed similar (but less severe) effects with other fast primes (e.g. 85/1.4 AF-S) and so the move to D810 was a delight for me. I also like many other aspects of the camera which have been improved.

I've noticed no AF shift over almost two years (and 60000 frames) of use with the D810; the original fine tune settings that I made after purchase still stand (and they're much smaller than what I needed with the D800). It is also quieter and better shaped for my hands, and the viewfinder shows better contrast in sunny conditions which I'm very happy about as well. The large buffer has also made it practical to use it, e.g., for catwalks, processions and sports without the buffer running out even in hectic shooting.

However, I haven't dropped the D810 so I don't have any data regarding its ability to withstand impacts. I did drop my D800 with 24-70 attached; the AF went haywire a bit which JAS fixed for free. The fact that I haven't noticed any shift in required AF fine tune values in the D810 over time is encouraging however, and I have thought that I should have bought two of those instead of getting the D750 as a second body. The D750 is nice as a small body goes but it's just too small and the grip is too narrow and deep for my fingers. Both the D810 and D750 have been problem free for me. One of the differences that I noticed is that the "focus confirmation dot" on the D810 is quite precise and is possible to use for fine tuning the AF (focus using live view, then turn AF off and go into OVF viewing, go through AF fine tune settings in the menu and check the range of fine tune settings which show the dot, then take a middle value as the new fine tune setting - works without taking a single picture) whereas with the D750 the range of fine tune settings where the focus confirmation dot is seen is too wide to get useful information for fine tuning with many lenses. So with the D750 I'm forced to take test shots to arrive at usable fine tuning values. With the D810 the mean of optimal fine tune settings has been close to zero (I think it's +1 or +2) whereas with the D750 it is around +7. I know these are just one user's findings on one sample of each camera but to me everything that I've seen about the D810 echoes that it is more precisely made than other cameras that I've used, especially regarding the AF.  However, once fine tuned the D750's AF has worked well for me and I have no functional complaints about that camera. It's just a bit too small for me to feel comfortable holding and using it. Also I prefer the motor driven, quieter mirror of the D810. I guess the D750 is excellent for backpacking because it takes less space and is lighter than the D810. So there is no one camera which is best for everything and each have their own merits.

Hopefully they will soon make a D810 successor with Multi-CAM 20k; the extended area of cross type point coverage would help me a great deal as I shoot a lot of verticals of people with the focus on the face at the top of the frame, where there are only linear points in the Multi-CAM 3500 cameras. The D5 upon first contact seemed to handle focusing in this area of the frame (far edges of the long dimension of the frame) much better ... but it's a little too rich for me, given that I rarely use CH, preferring manually timed exposures almost always.

I trust Nikon to make whatever improvements they can to improve the camera's impact resistance and long term stability. This is important for AF in a high resolution camera. The D810 has been good to me in that respect but it can be improved I am sure.

Erik Lund

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Re: D810 Build quality - Warning
« Reply #17 on: May 25, 2016, 12:41:58 »
D5 is all magnesium,,,  8)
Erik Lund

Frank Fremerey

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Re: D810 Build quality - Warning
« Reply #18 on: May 25, 2016, 12:56:13 »
D5 is all magnesium,,,  8)

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Ilkka Nissilä

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Re: D810 Build quality - Warning
« Reply #19 on: May 25, 2016, 13:16:17 »
Thank .... Nikon

Well, they accept a modest contribution (7000€)  in payment for  that magnesium body. . :o ;)

If a lot of people buy it, they'll make more like it, and perhaps are able to reduce the price.

Les Olson

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Re: D810 Build quality - Warning
« Reply #20 on: May 25, 2016, 14:10:22 »
There is nothing magic about magnesium/aluminium alloy construction vs polycarbonate.  The ultimate tensile strength, which is mainly what determines survival of an impact on a flat surface, of magnesium/aluminium is about three times greater than polycarbonate, but polycarbonate is about one third less dense (1.2 g/cm3 vs 1.81), so that parts made of polycarbonate and magnesium/aluminium will have (roughly) the same ultimate tensile strength if the polycarbonate version is somewhat heavier and bulkier.

On the other hand, polycarbonate is much more resistant to penetration (which is why they make "bullet-proof" windows out of it, eg), so it will tolerate a fall onto a protrusion better than magnesium/aluminium.   

Young's modulus ("stiffness") is much higher for magnesium/aluminium (42Gpa vs 2.6), so the metal chassis feels much more "solid", but that does not affect impact resistance.  The much higher Young's modulus does mean that the metal chassis will damp vibration much better. 



Polycarbonate also has the advantage of good electrical and thermal insulation, which simplifies construction. 

Erik Lund

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Re: D810 Build quality - Warning
« Reply #21 on: May 25, 2016, 14:53:42 »
I agree, but; For plastic parts in the mount area - In practise what happens is that a couple of the screws get ripped out of the plastic chassis and the screws opposite breaks the plastic. Or they all get ripped out like on Bjørns Df

See the image of Chris camera and many like it on DPR,,,

On a magnesium chassis there are twice as many threads since it's 'machine screws' not coarse self tapping, so they stay inside the magnesium! And the lens get ripped apart.
It's the Young modulus helping the magnesium!

Re the insulation, they actually have to insert two conductors to have contact between the electronics and the mount so a cost-up!
Erik Lund

Akira

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Re: D810 Build quality - Warning
« Reply #22 on: May 25, 2016, 15:02:29 »
According to Nikon engineers, the monocoque construction can connect the mirror box and the sensor more solidly, which will prevent the mirror box from being deformed when a certain amount of stress is applied through the lens mount.

Even though the metal is more solid against the rip-off, the camera will be unusable anyway when mirror box is deformed and the sensor or the mount is misaligned.
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Jyda

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Re: D810 Build quality - Warning
« Reply #23 on: May 25, 2016, 15:11:07 »
the D810 is designed to surprise

I hope my D810 doesn't give me those kind of surprises.  :o
Johnny Dahlén

Jan Anne

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Re: D810 Build quality - Warning
« Reply #24 on: May 25, 2016, 15:22:29 »
According to Nikon engineers, the monocoque construction can connect the mirror box and the sensor more solidly, which will prevent the mirror box from being deformed when a certain amount of stress is applied through the lens mount.

Even though the metal is more solid against the rip-off, the camera will be unusable anyway when mirror box is deformed and the sensor or the mount is misaligned.
Good points Akira, with a strengthened mirror box to sensor attachment maybe the lens mount is designed to break to prevent too much damage to the sensor unit?
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Bjørn Rørslett

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Re: D810 Build quality - Warning
« Reply #25 on: May 25, 2016, 15:40:41 »
The lens mount of some lenses such as the 24-70 is indeed designed to split into two when the impact is strong enough. This makes it possible to do field repairs on them, for example in the pause between first and second half of a football ('soccer') match.

Erik Lund

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Re: D810 Build quality - Warning
« Reply #26 on: May 25, 2016, 15:41:52 »
Akira, Marketing,,,
Erik Lund

bjornthun

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Re: D810 Build quality - Warning
« Reply #27 on: May 25, 2016, 16:31:36 »
There is nothing about the price of either the D810 or the D500 that says "cheap", particularly given the fact that digital system camera models are renewed every second year or so. If this is a cost cutting meassure, it can only help Nikon's margins? Perhaps, or not?

I didn't expect to see "plastic" mount happening with high end Nikons. A D810 is after all 3x the price of a first gen. Sony A7 in Norway right now. Such a price differential will give rise to different customer expectations.

I didn't see this coming.  :o


Akira

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Re: D810 Build quality - Warning
« Reply #28 on: May 25, 2016, 16:45:24 »
Good points Akira, with a strengthened mirror box to sensor attachment maybe the lens mount is designed to break to prevent too much damage to the sensor unit?

Whenever the mirror box is damaged in any way (the rip-off of the mount, deformed mirror box or whatever), the camera would not function properly anymore.  So, the difficulty or the cost of the repair may not make that big difference.

Akira, Marketing,,,

Well, such interviews to the engineers are parts of the marketing anyway, but some of the technical explanations make sense to me.
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Ilkka Nissilä

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Re: D810 Build quality - Warning
« Reply #29 on: May 25, 2016, 19:03:37 »
The A7 is cheap because it is an old model and doesn't sell.

The A7R II is the "real deal" (the Sony which is in high demand) and costs several hundred dollars more than the D810.

I know I'm generalizing a bit but from discussions with Sony users, many of the early problems were solved in the A7RII. I can't deal with the EVF but perhaps the majority of users (which I'm not) don't take it so seriously. The EVF is a huge distraction for me because of artifacts (e.g jaggies) that are seen when turning the camera following a moving subject. But others have stated they like the VF.

I don't think the D810 construction is a problem in normal use and if dropped, any camera is likely to require repair.