Author Topic: Nikkor Micro 200 f/4 questions  (Read 3719 times)

simato73

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Nikkor Micro 200 f/4 questions
« on: May 15, 2016, 16:17:29 »
I have seen Franks 200 in action in Killin and I have liked it.
I don't have a dedicated macro lens and this one seems to tick many of the important points for me:
- good working distance
- sturdy rating tripod collar
- relatively low price
- long focus throw
- no AF (if would be a waste since I am going to adapt the lens to a Fuji
- sharpness (assumed)
- relatively compact size

What I don't know, and I ask here the experts, is what should I expect in terms of optical performance, specifically aberrations (any kind), out of focus rendition (aka bokeh) and what not.
I expect the tripod collar should be good but let me know if this is not the case.
The other thing I'd like to know is what are the differences between the AI and AI-s versions. Is the thinner collar in the AI much worse? Any differences in optical formula or coatings, etc?

Finally what price should I expect to pay?

Thanks in advance
Simone Tomasi

Bjørn Rørslett

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Re: Nikkor Micro 200 f/4 questions
« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2016, 17:20:08 »
It will show lateral chromatic aberrations, which would be easy to correct in the work flow. While the 200/4 IF is not regarded as the sharpest of the Micro-Nikkors, it is no slouch either, and it has the pleasant rounded rendition ('drawing') so typical for the earlier Nikkors.

The balance is very good when hand-holding the lens, and the tripod collar is very sturdy. The AI version has a narrower collar than the AIS, but as the broad collar of latter really is engineering overkill for once, the AI will serve just fine.

Sorry cannot help you with price estimates other than quoting a quick ebay.co.uk search, showing prices from 180 to 270 GBP. The lowest prices are for lenses without any tripod collar, though. Be aware that this lens sometimes is erroneously advertised as 'ED-IF' while it is just 'IF'.

John Harkus

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Re: Nikkor Micro 200 f/4 questions
« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2016, 20:06:24 »
I have one, paid £250 for it complete with a Sony camera adapter, a very nice lens indeed
John

simato73

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Re: Nikkor Micro 200 f/4 questions
« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2016, 20:12:47 »
Thanks for the responses.
Any reason, especially regarding the optics, to prefer the AI-s over the AI?
Simone Tomasi

John Harkus

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Re: Nikkor Micro 200 f/4 questions
« Reply #4 on: May 15, 2016, 20:16:36 »
To the best of my knowledge the Ai and AiS have identical optics
JH

simato73

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Re: Nikkor Micro 200 f/4 questions
« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2016, 21:05:57 »
To the best of my knowledge the Ai and AiS have identical optics
JH

Excellent, so I will probably go for the cheaper AI version.
Simone Tomasi

Bjørn Rørslett

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Re: Nikkor Micro 200 f/4 questions
« Reply #6 on: May 15, 2016, 21:30:40 »
There might be differences in the coatings - I would personally pick the AIS.

Roland Vink

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Re: Nikkor Micro 200 f/4 questions
« Reply #7 on: May 16, 2016, 03:03:37 »
I have the AIS version, and used it for many years on film cameras (have not used it much recently due to lack of time and opportunity).

The tripod mount is the most solid of any lens I own, a clam-shell design of solid metal. The AI version has a similar but narrower tripod collar, I expect it is still among the best (especially compared to many modern lenses). Rotation could be smoother - it's basically (painted) metal on metal, not lubricated so it can be a little rough or squeaky, but it's never been a problem in use.

With the tripod mount removed the lens is surprisingly light-weight, not much different from the non-macro version. However this lens is designed for tripod work, I don't think I ever shot it hand-held. For hand-held shooting the focus ring is uncomfortably far to the front, the non-macro 200/4 is much better in this regard since the focus ring falls comfortably in the hand nearer the centre of balance.

The focus action is light and smooth. The focus throw is reasonably long, but like many macro lenses the focus throw near infinity is very compressed compared to the non-macro version.

It has a built-in hood which is adequate. Like many slide-out hoods it is a little wobbly, and it could be longer, but it does the job.

It has 9 aperture blades with straight edges, when stopped down the background blurs will be 9-sided polygons, not rounded, but it does produce nice 18-point diffraction stars.

Optically, there is no difference between the AI and AIS versions. There may be improvements to the coatings but nothing dramatic. I have seen several AIS lenses where the coating behind the first element appears to have an irregular watermark around the rim. I had one lens cleaned but it made no difference. The coating seems to be easily affected by something - humidity? I'm not sure of the cause. It does not appear to affect performance, but something to be aware of.

The lens gets to 1:2 magnification by itself, with a focus distance of 0.71m. That is over twice the close focus distance of the AF 105 micros.
The long working distance is extremely useful for outdoor photography, especially for subjects at ground level since you don't need to get so low. It also makes positioning of the tripod much easier, there is less chance that setting up the legs will disturb the subject. To increase magnification further, I have used the 3T closeup lens or PK-13 extension tube, with good results.

When shooting film (Velvia and Provia) I was always pleased with the results. Sharpness is good an background rendition is pleasing. It is prone to flare when shooting into strong light. Lack of ED glass means it is not well colour corrected but it should be possible to clean this up in post processing.

The picture in this thread was taken with the AIS 200/4 micro: http://nikongear.net/revival/index.php/topic,3080.0.html

Alternatives that may be worth considering:
  • AF 200/4 micro - sharper and better colour corrected, but much bigger and expensive.
  • AIS 105/4 micro - no focal length shortening so has much longer working distance compared to other 105mm macro lenses. Very good optically, and mates well with the PN-11 tube for 1:1 magnification.
  • Sigma 150/2.8 macro - the non IS version has a good reputation and is relatively compact.

simato73

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Re: Nikkor Micro 200 f/4 questions
« Reply #8 on: May 16, 2016, 10:21:13 »
I have the AIS version, and used it for many years on film cameras (have not used it much recently due to lack of time and opportunity).

The tripod mount is the most solid of any lens I own, a clam-shell design of solid metal. The AI version has a similar but narrower tripod collar, I expect it is still among the best (especially compared to many modern lenses). Rotation could be smoother - it's basically (painted) metal on metal, not lubricated so it can be a little rough or squeaky, but it's never been a problem in use.

With the tripod mount removed the lens is surprisingly light-weight, not much different from the non-macro version. However this lens is designed for tripod work, I don't think I ever shot it hand-held. For hand-held shooting the focus ring is uncomfortably far to the front, the non-macro 200/4 is much better in this regard since the focus ring falls comfortably in the hand nearer the centre of balance.

The focus action is light and smooth. The focus throw is reasonably long, but like many macro lenses the focus throw near infinity is very compressed compared to the non-macro version.

It has a built-in hood which is adequate. Like many slide-out hoods it is a little wobbly, and it could be longer, but it does the job.

It has 9 aperture blades with straight edges, when stopped down the background blurs will be 9-sided polygons, not rounded, but it does produce nice 18-point diffraction stars.

Optically, there is no difference between the AI and AIS versions. There may be improvements to the coatings but nothing dramatic. I have seen several AIS lenses where the coating behind the first element appears to have an irregular watermark around the rim. I had one lens cleaned but it made no difference. The coating seems to be easily affected by something - humidity? I'm not sure of the cause. It does not appear to affect performance, but something to be aware of.

The lens gets to 1:2 magnification by itself, with a focus distance of 0.71m. That is over twice the close focus distance of the AF 105 micros.
The long working distance is extremely useful for outdoor photography, especially for subjects at ground level since you don't need to get so low. It also makes positioning of the tripod much easier, there is less chance that setting up the legs will disturb the subject. To increase magnification further, I have used the 3T closeup lens or PK-13 extension tube, with good results.

When shooting film (Velvia and Provia) I was always pleased with the results. Sharpness is good an background rendition is pleasing. It is prone to flare when shooting into strong light. Lack of ED glass means it is not well colour corrected but it should be possible to clean this up in post processing.

The picture in this thread was taken with the AIS 200/4 micro: http://nikongear.net/revival/index.php/topic,3080.0.html

Alternatives that may be worth considering:
  • AF 200/4 micro - sharper and better colour corrected, but much bigger and expensive.
  • AIS 105/4 micro - no focal length shortening so has much longer working distance compared to other 105mm macro lenses. Very good optically, and mates well with the PN-11 tube for 1:1 magnification.
  • Sigma 150/2.8 macro - the non IS version has a good reputation and is relatively compact.

Thank you Roland, I was hoping you would chime in about the coatings.
Obviously I would not mind having the AF-D version (used only manually of course) but I don't think will find it at a low enough price.
I do remember your post about that strange NZ flower, an unusual image indeed.
Simone Tomasi

Frank Fremerey

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Re: Nikkor Micro 200 f/4 questions
« Reply #9 on: May 16, 2016, 11:16:21 »
Most of the shots in the following thread are made with the Ai-S 4/200: http://nikongear.net/revival/index.php?topic=2162.0
I love the color rendition and the precision MF by long focus throw.
Light sources in the oof areas look pretty blocky. I avoid them.
I paid 299 Euro for a mint version on Ebay (collector item, seemed unused).
The sturdy tripod collar & the battery compartment of my D600 are certainly in conflict.
You are out there. You and your camera. You can shoot or not shoot as you please. Discover the world, Your world. Show it to us. Or we might never see it.

Me: https://youpic.com/photographer/frankfremerey/

Hermann

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Re: Nikkor Micro 200 f/4 questions
« Reply #10 on: May 16, 2016, 11:23:12 »
Alternatives that may be worth considering:
  • AF 200/4 micro - sharper and better colour corrected, but much bigger and expensive.
  • AIS 105/4 micro - no focal length shortening so has much longer working distance compared to other 105mm macro lenses. Very good optically, and mates well with the PN-11 tube for 1:1 magnification.
  • Sigma 150/2.8 macro - the non IS version has a good reputation and is relatively compact.

The AIS 105/4 is my personal favourite. I've been using mine for a long, long time, and I'm still more than happy with its performance.

Roland Vink

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Re: Nikkor Micro 200 f/4 questions
« Reply #11 on: May 16, 2016, 23:09:36 »
Light sources in the oof areas look pretty blocky. I avoid them.
Yes that is a good way of describing it. The bokeh is not always smooth, but it's not harsh either, no double-lines in the background. I don't recall having images ruined by bad bokeh. And with the narrow angle of view it's easier to shift your perspective slightly to exclude unwanted objects from the background.

simato73

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Re: Nikkor Micro 200 f/4 questions
« Reply #12 on: July 14, 2016, 09:58:49 »
Thanks all for your contributions.
Since yesterday I am the happy owner of a Nikkor Micro 200mm f/4 AIs in very good conditions.
I bought it for the princely amount of £156, shipped  8)
Presently ill at home so playing with it outdoors has to be postponed - not a big loss since it is cold, wet and windy.
Simone Tomasi

Frank Fremerey

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Re: Nikkor Micro 200 f/4 questions
« Reply #13 on: July 14, 2016, 10:22:43 »
Looking forward to your results. Love that lens!
You are out there. You and your camera. You can shoot or not shoot as you please. Discover the world, Your world. Show it to us. Or we might never see it.

Me: https://youpic.com/photographer/frankfremerey/

Hugh_3170

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Re: Nikkor Micro 200 f/4 questions
« Reply #14 on: July 14, 2016, 10:27:15 »
Tut, tut young man - you are talking about the NZ Pohutukawa - also known as the Christmas tree in NZ.  ;D  ;D  ;D

Glad to hear that you now have an AiS Micro 200/4 of your own for what sounds like a very good price at £156.  Thank you for raising the question in the first place, since I have this lens on my own radar.  I do concurr with others however that the 105mm Micro f/4.0 is a great lens as well.

(And I trust that you will make a quick recovery from your illness.)



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I do remember your post about that strange NZ flower, an unusual image indeed.
Hugh Gunn