Canon hybrid VF patent

[tommiejeep]

 bjornthun (to make sure I got the right Bjorn) .  Only a little off topic 
 Focus Peaking on the a7II is just not that accurate for me.  It has to be used in conjunction with the Magnifier. Maybe I have the settings wrong but sometimes I want a particular person, item to be really sharp but the yellow peaking shows all in focus but the image shows that there is some back focus.  Normally when using a lens at f2 to f4.  Any suggestions ?
Cheers,
Tom

[Andrea B.]

I have noticed the same thing as Tom does when using my a7R for intermediate or close work. It just is not accurate. I gave up and turned it off. Maybe other manufacturers are better at providing focus peaking? I don't know.

[Akira]

Unlike the image taking lens, the optical system of the view finder, electronic or optical, is completed with the optical system of the photographer's eye.  That's why "which viewfinder is the best?" kind of discussion always ends up without any progression.

[bjornthun]

I have noticed the same thing as Tom does when using my a7R for intermediate or close work. It just is not accurate. I gave up and turned it off. Maybe other manufacturers are better at providing focus peaking? I don't know.

That's why I switch between them. The ultimate thing is the 10x magnifier. When use 5x magnifier, the magnifier and the focus peaking work in conjunction, which is often the quickest way of focusing. Without magnification the ficus peaking, shows a wider zone of focus, but you can set three levels for focus peaking, which will improve accuracy.

When I use native lenses, the 5x magnifier is automatically engaged and works in conjunction with focus peaking, also possible to switch off in the menu. This is way ahead of any OVF for me, and I get 99-100% keeper rate for MF this way.

[bjornthun]

Unlike the image taking lens, the optical system of the view finder, electronic or optical, is completed with the optical system of the photographer's eye.  That's why "which viewfinder is the best?" kind of discussion always ends up without any progression.

I think this is very true.

[Tristin]

bjornthun, have you tried alternate focun screens?  The stock screens are poor for MF.  I've used magnification for focusing on an EVF before.  Found it very useful for static subjects, but anything else I would still prefer a decent focus screen as it is not a fast way to work.  Focus peaking sounds like the perfect idea, but too inaccurate currently for the fast aperatures I would want to use it at. 😕 Hopefully it improves a lot and we can get focus peaking overlaid on the OVF.  That would be awesome.

[bjornthun]

bjornthun, have you tried alternate focun screens?  The stock screens are poor for MF.  I've used magnification for focusing on an EVF before.  Found it very useful for static subjects, but anything else I would still prefer a decent focus screen as it is not a fast way to work.  Focus peaking sounds like the perfect idea, but too inaccurate currently for the fast aperatures I would want to use it at. 😕 Hopefully it improves a lot and we can get focus peaking overlaid on the OVF.  That would be awesome.

Yes, I have tried alternative focussing screens from focusdingscreens.com (Canon type S I think it was called), but the improvement was small, there was no way it could compete with the magnifier of the Sony A7 for accuracy and speed or in low light. I mainly shoot static subjects. The best SLR finder is still the 44 year old Olympus OM-1 with 0.9x magnification. DSLRs unfortunately have lower magnification than cameras like the old Nikon F3HP as well, they appear not to be tuned to MF anymore. Native Sony E mount lenses engage 5x magnification combined with focus peaking, which gives me way faster and more precise MF than anything else.

Katzeye worked well with the D700, but there was no Katzeye screen for the D800. 36mp serms to be more than can accurately be focussed with an optical finder. 12mp with Katzeye was fine with the D700.

I sold my DSLRs back in 2014, when I discovered what my Sony A7 could do. I'm not going back to DSLRs. The lack of suitability for MF of the Nikon D800 was a major disappointment, and a costly one. Why couldn't Nikon just have made a D800EVF version, and I would have bern happy?

[Tristin]

I am sure Nikon is waiting for HVF to be viable.  I think people wanting a strictly EVF are a minority in the Nikon DSLR camp.  I know I don't want one, I spend enough time as-is looking at screens.

I do wish that VFs were bigger.  Is there a reason they aren't?

[bjornthun]

I am sure Nikon is waiting for HVF to be viable.  I think people wanting a strictly EVF are a minority in the Nikon DSLR camp.  I know I don't want one, I spend enough time as-is looking at screens.

I do wish that VFs were bigger.  Is there a reason they aren't?

I have noticed that the viewfinders in DSLRs have lower magnification that they used to in the film SLRs, but I don't know why. DX is even worse.

It's two years sice I abandoned DSLR for mirrorless, so the waiting for a HVF would be long. In the meantime a D800EVF would have been nice, I think. The "minority" who want an EVF may shrink in the Nikon camp. For 2016 33% of shipment of cameras from Japan is mirrorless, so the minority, me included, may have already moved or is moving to mirrorless.

[Bjørn Rørslett]

The camera makers are partly to blame for the miseries of poor finders, as the focus (sic) on the brightest possible finders for AF with dim AF lenses of dubious 'speed' erode away the features required for reliable MF focusing. The latter requirements are more coarse-grained finders, less bright, and with the ability to make the eye hold on to a slice of the aerial image coinciding with the focusing screen.

Fortunately, third-party replacement screens exist. They solve some of the worst issues.

[ArendV]

My MF keeper rate on my A7 is the highest from any camera I have had so far.
I stopped using focus peaking and instead upped the sharpening to +3  (Creative Style/ your picture mode/ Sharpness), which does not affect the images shooting RAW.
You can then see the shimmering pixels where you focus and in combination with the magnifier (not always needed) it works very well for me.
Focus peaking is not very accurate at wide apertures and disturbs the view too much for me.

[Andrea B.]

Arend, I'm not sure how your sharpening suggestion works? Set Jpeg, increase sharpness to +3 and then focus peaking works better?
I'll go get my a7R and play with this idea.

[ArendV]

Andrea, you do not have to set to JPEG.
In the Camera setting (camera icon top left in menu) select 4 "Creative Style".
I have mine on "Standard" and if you then click to the right you can set Contrast, Saturation and Sharpness.
Increase Sharpness to +3 et Voila.

Hope this helps, give it a try.
And I use this instead of focus peaking, so not to make focus peaking make work better.
This shimmering shows up best on textures.

[Andrea B.]

Yes I do have +3 Sharpness set, [EDIT] but I do not see a "shimmer"?

However, this is not all that important. I'm getting the focus with the Magnifier for my manual lenses via Live View. So I'm happy.

*********

Before anyone goes too far into another OVF/EVF discussion,
that war is over and both OVF and EVF lost.
The NO-Viewfinder Cellphone Camera won. 

[ArendV]

I see you were already editing while I was typing, so you tried it without focus peaking now.
The shimmering shows most on textures, in any case give it some time to get used to it - it works well for me.