Author Topic: Micro this or micro that?  (Read 9987 times)

Billie Jean

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Micro this or micro that?
« on: March 30, 2016, 15:53:27 »
Hello all,

I am a beginner in close-up photography and I have an opportunity to acquire one of these two lenses:

AF-S DX Micro NIKKOR 40mm f/2.8G
or
Micro-Nikkor 105mm f/4

What are your thoughts?
And before you decide, you should know a few things...I have Nikon D60 and I don't really care about autofocus. The only thing I think about is how to take a photo as close as possible :)

Can you help me decide between these two lenses? :)
Ana Stojanović

Erik Lund

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Re: Micro this or micro that?
« Reply #1 on: March 30, 2016, 16:01:49 »
The Micro-Nikkor 105mm f/4 is a true classic and an all round lens, you will find many images here are made with it.

It also takes extension rings very well, most new lenses have IF internal focusing like the 40mm, 60mm or 80mm AFS or later 105mm 2.8 Ais and AF-D and AFS that gives you a little better performance over the whole focus range but they loose working distance really quickly when you focus close-up.

You can't go wrong with Micro-Nikkor 105mm f/4 The nicest version is the Ais, but same optics as AI
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Bjørn Rørslett

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Re: Micro this or micro that?
« Reply #2 on: March 30, 2016, 16:04:41 »
Nothing wrong with the 105/4 at all, it is a wonderful lens and a timeless classic Nikkor. However, given she has the D60, the nod goes to the 40 mm f/2.8 DX Micro-Nikkor. It is light weight and very sharp. The 40 G will be fully compatible with this camera.

You will not get metering with the 105/4 on a D60 unless it is CPU-modified, and it goes to 1:2 on its own, to 1:1 with the PN-11 extension tube. The 40 G goes to 1:1 on its own and no additional extension is required.

richardHaw

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Re: Micro this or micro that?
« Reply #3 on: March 30, 2016, 17:02:01 »
what are you trying to shoot? you did not mention anything so i am going to put whatever i can say on the subject.

those 2 macro lenses do 2 very different things :o :o :o

105mm is great for bugs because it gives you a lot of working distance so you do not scare the bugs away. it also gives you more flexibility with lighting. this is also an FX compatible lens so that if you ever decide to shoot film or go FX then this lens will still be relevant. the con is that 105mm is a bit on the long side so your pics can have a flat look.

40mm in my opinion is TOO SHORT for bug work. for full magnification of 1:1 the tip of the lens is SO CLOSE to the subject if you are shooting buys, it would have flown or dropped to the soil. lighting will also be a big challenge for that lens because you have to be so close. while it is a DX lens, many people actually use this for FX with acceptable results in the corners. this will also autofocus with your camera so it is great. now, if you are to ask me these 40-60mm macro lenses are great for food and product photography where i use them because the perspective is not as flat so that your products and food will not look small and your image will look more dynamic. now, you do not need to shoot real close when doing product and food pictures but there will be times when you will, like shoot the strawberry on a cake or in my case before, the beautiful engraving on a ring or a pearl pendant. this is also great for shooting watches (i came from a family of jewellers and watch repair/mod) because it makes the watches look "dignified" whereas a 105mm will make it look boring.

in dental photography, the best should be 60mm because it is closer to "normal" and with that focal length, you will be able to frame and see the other teeth. this is important for the laboratory so that they know which shade we are going to use for the porcelain and glaze to make the denture look like the rest of the natural teeth.

here are some of my bug pics taken with a 105mm so you can judge for yourself what a 105mm shot looks like.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/31768064@N03/sets/72157652297115512

https://www.flickr.com/photos/31768064@N03/albums/72157652928071889
there are few fields of photography as dependent on lighting as macro photography so lighting should actually be your 2nd consideration. i recommend a ring flash for convenience and this is the best one i saw, cost performance wise.

http://richardhaw.com/2016/01/24/study-diffraction-on-the-105mm-vr/
and this is my writeup on the 105mm VR's diffraction effects. never mind the pictures, just read the commentaries.

you can still shoot macro photography without a true macro lens by using a reversed lens or a lens relay setup or bellows. these are very different approaches so it is out of this topic. for that i go to other dedicated macro sights like coinimaging.com and extrememacro.com (check the URL i am not sure about these)

Bjørn Rørslett

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Re: Micro this or micro that?
« Reply #4 on: March 30, 2016, 17:09:54 »
She specifically listed 105/45 and 40/2.8 as alternatives., I assume for a good reason.

No need really to address the zillion of other lenses capable of making close-ups floating around out there.

If she find her requirements alter over time, suitable lens candidates are plentiful.

I got a pristine 40/2.8 GX for less than 100$ in maker's box with full paperwork. The dealer claimed it was a "demo" model, but the box was still with unbroken seal ... Makes a perfect combination on my trustworthy D2H for product shots. It also can do service via the FT-1 for my 1 Nikon cameras.

ArendV

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Re: Micro this or micro that?
« Reply #5 on: March 30, 2016, 17:20:43 »
In many ways the 40mm is more convenient on a D60, with a great exception as already pointed out above: working distance.

Just to get a feeling how close you are at 1:1 - source: http://www.photozone.de/nikon--nikkor-aps-c-lens-tests/674-afs40f28dx
Arend

richardHaw

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Re: Micro this or micro that?
« Reply #6 on: March 30, 2016, 17:32:17 »
Micro-Nikkor 105mm f/4 The nicest version is the Ais, but same optics as AI
what is different between these 2? are you referring to the handling? :o :o :o
i almost bought one this morning.

Merco_61

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Re: Micro this or micro that?
« Reply #7 on: March 30, 2016, 17:40:50 »
what is different between these 2? are you referring to the handling? :o :o :o
i almost bought one this morning.

The Ai-S is slightly slimmer and has 20° less focus throw
Peter Sundstedt

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Erik Lund

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Re: Micro this or micro that?
« Reply #8 on: March 30, 2016, 17:47:47 »
Most important the Micro Nikkor 1+5mm f/4 Ais has a focus lock so the focus unit stays put even shooting up or down
The Micro Nikkor 105mm 2.8 Ais also has this
Erik Lund

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Re: Micro this or micro that?
« Reply #9 on: March 30, 2016, 17:49:30 »
And another coating BTW  ;)
Erik Lund

richardHaw

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Re: Micro this or micro that?
« Reply #10 on: March 30, 2016, 17:49:45 »
isnt that a damp dial :o :o :o

richardHaw

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Re: Micro this or micro that?
« Reply #11 on: March 30, 2016, 17:50:37 »
The Ai-S is slightly slimmer and has 20° less focus throw
thank you. :o :o :o

Erik Lund

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Re: Micro this or micro that?
« Reply #12 on: March 30, 2016, 17:52:03 »
isnt that a damp dial :o :o :o
No, it's for locking, if working for instance on a vertical repro-stand
Erik Lund

Roland Vink

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Re: Micro this or micro that?
« Reply #13 on: March 30, 2016, 20:52:54 »
The built-in hood on the AIS 105/4 is about twice as deep as the AI version. Very effective.

Akira

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Re: Micro this or micro that?
« Reply #14 on: March 31, 2016, 03:21:54 »
Hi, Ana, you seem to already have a suitable lens: you posted beautiful closeup images of your eyes and the ant.

The 105/4.0 micro should be better to shoot the kind of images mentioned above.  As others noted, the working distance of 40/2.8 micro is too short for the tight close up.  I uset to have a 40/2.8 but I used it as all-rounder that is more versatile than DX 35/1.8G.  As a micro lens, its working distance is all-too short.  The same goes with the Ai AF 60/2.8D.

The main problem of 105/4.0 micro is, as mentioned, that you cannot meter with D60.  You have either to add a CPU, or to make a test shot and judge the exposure using the histogram.  If you are upgrading the camera body to a model that can meter with these old MF lenses (like D7x00 series or any FX bodies), there will be no such problem.

I would think the best choice for D60 is AF-S Micro 85mm/f3.5 VR which offers fairly long working distance (about 15cm at 1:1).  But if you can live with the inconvenience mentioned above, and you have to make a choice now, I would go for 105/4.0.
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