Author Topic: If you simply must have a Noct-Nikkor 58/1.2....  (Read 19220 times)

Andrea B.

  • Technical Adviser
  • *
  • Posts: 1671
If you simply must have a Noct-Nikkor 58/1.2....
« on: March 27, 2016, 21:16:47 »
Here is one for sale on Ebay. It is the 9-bladed version.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-NIKON-58mm-f1-2-Noct-Nikkor-1-1-2-58-AI-S-AI-S-Noctilux-/252333002635?hash=item3ac0380f8b:g:-JEAAOSwwpdW9d8u

Price:  GBP 1888 for Buy Now
This seems like a slightly better price than other recent Noct-Nikkor offers which seem to be to have pushed beyond a reasonable level. I note that the overpriced Noct-Nikkors abound on Ebay right now and do not seem to be selling.

Erik Lund

  • Global Moderator
  • **
  • Posts: 6489
  • Copenhagen
    • ErikLund.com
Re: If you simply must have a Noct-Nikkor 58/1.2....
« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2016, 21:34:57 »
For what it's worth the new 58mm f/1.4 AFS is very similar in IQ - Would be next to impossible to tell them apart in even a very large print,,,
Erik Lund

John Koerner

  • Guest
Re: If you simply must have a Noct-Nikkor 58/1.2....
« Reply #2 on: March 27, 2016, 22:33:25 »
I can't get motivated to spend 3-Grand on this lens (or even 2-Grand, as in this case).

Erik says the 58mm f/1.4 is similar in IQ, and this review shows as the ordinary MF Nikon 50mm f/1.2 Ai-S is better in many respects in  this review (same reviewer).

Other than for collection purposes, there appears to be no field purpose to spend the extra gravy on the Noct-Nikkor 58/1.2 lens.

Bjørn Rørslett

  • Fierce Bear of the North
  • Administrator
  • ***
  • Posts: 8252
  • Oslo, Norway
Re: If you simply must have a Noct-Nikkor 58/1.2....
« Reply #3 on: March 27, 2016, 22:46:13 »
If you say so ...

I have two copies of the Noct for a reason. And for the record, either own or have used the other 'normals' you refer to.

This is a lens made for special application in photography. If these are your fields, you either understand its value, or will once you have used the Noct. The Nikon engineers specifically tried to recreate the Noct in their new 58/1.4 AFS. Some think they succeeded, personally I think the new lens is fine on its own. But the Noct holds it ground well enough despite the newer offering.

John Koerner

  • Guest
Re: If you simply must have a Noct-Nikkor 58/1.2....
« Reply #4 on: March 28, 2016, 06:24:11 »
If you say so ...

"I" didn't say so, the author of the articles to which I referred said so. (As did Erik.)



I have two copies of the Noct for a reason. And for the record, either own or have used the other 'normals' you refer to.

Okay ... and?



This is a lens made for special application in photography. If these are your fields, you either understand its value, or will once you have used the Noct. The Nikon engineers specifically tried to recreate the Noct in their new 58/1.4 AFS. Some think they succeeded, personally I think the new lens is fine on its own. But the Noct holds it ground well enough despite the newer offering.

Curious to hear you elaborate on the pluses minuses.

Saying you "own" something doesn't give the reader much to go on.

I've not owned the Noct, so all I can do is refer to the reviewer above, and there have been others which say that the CA at f/1.2 is pretty bad and that by f/2 the AiS f/2 is as good or better, sharpness-wise.

If you have direct experience, would be grateful to hear you elaborate.

Andrea B.

  • Technical Adviser
  • *
  • Posts: 1671
Re: If you simply must have a Noct-Nikkor 58/1.2....
« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2016, 07:24:59 »
If it is Bjørn R. who is doing the owning, then that fact alone gives me a lot to go on.  ;D ;D ;D But I grant that YMMV for others. Srsly though, the man does know how to recognize a good lens.

I have both the Noct-Nikkor and the 50/1.2 AIS. Make of this what you will, but the Noct has character and the 1.2 does not. The Noct's backgrounds are nicer. Its renditions are smooth and subtle, not jittery or busy. Noct is for Night: night time shooting between 1.2 and 4.0. I think the Noct, while sharp, has somewhat less microcontrast than today's "documentary lenses" like, say, the modern Zeisses. The Noct provides a more of a - what word am I looking for ? - artistic?? look to its images. The Noct, however, does not lack contrast.

The Noct paints like a Japanese watercolour while the new Zeisses draw like German etchings. The 50/1.2 doodles sketches in the margins of the morning newspaper.

I don't test lenses, I just use them. So I don't really have much of a vocabulary for describing lens properties.

The new Noct is somewhere in between the old Noct and the old 50/1.2.

Anyway, my original post was intended to be more about the pricing than the merits or lack of merits of the Noct. There seems to be some resistance to the over $3k pricing for a Noct. This is a good thing because the Noct is specialized and not truly rare (yet). So its price should be increasing gradually.


richardHaw

  • Cute Panda from the East...
  • NG Supporter
  • **
  • Posts: 3147
  • Your lens loverboy
    • Classic Nikkor Maintenance and DIY
Re: If you simply must have a Noct-Nikkor 58/1.2....
« Reply #6 on: March 28, 2016, 08:22:38 »
i want to own the NOCT. just for the heck of it  :o :o :o

tried one and it's really special. it's not for everyone to be honest, like the 55mm f/1.2http://richardhaw.com/2016/02/06/repair-new-nikkor-55mm-f1-2/ that i own. its a very polarizing lens in the sense that its a like it or hate it thing. very much like the Df. some love theirs while i hated it (the current one at least)

richardHaw

  • Cute Panda from the East...
  • NG Supporter
  • **
  • Posts: 3147
  • Your lens loverboy
    • Classic Nikkor Maintenance and DIY
Re: If you simply must have a Noct-Nikkor 58/1.2....
« Reply #7 on: March 28, 2016, 08:25:37 »
Here is one for sale on Ebay. It is the 9-bladed version.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-NIKON-58mm-f1-2-Noct-Nikkor-1-1-2-58-AI-S-AI-S-Noctilux-/252333002635?hash=item3ac0380f8b:g:-JEAAOSwwpdW9d8u

Price:  GBP 1888 for Buy Now
This seems like a slightly better price than other recent Noct-Nikkor offers which seem to be to have pushed beyond a reasonable level. I note that the overpriced Noct-Nikkors abound on Ebay right now and do not seem to be selling.

that is actually around the same price it is being sold here in Tokyo. and i still cannot afford one at the moment. i am determined to get one next year. it is like a little life goal for me. even one with fungus would be perfect for me so i can get it cheap and clean it.

the 7 bladed version is a lot cheaper, that would also be fine for me

Bjørn Rørslett

  • Fierce Bear of the North
  • Administrator
  • ***
  • Posts: 8252
  • Oslo, Norway
Re: If you simply must have a Noct-Nikkor 58/1.2....
« Reply #8 on: March 28, 2016, 09:39:47 »
"I don't test lenses, I just use them. So I don't really have much of a vocabulary for describing lens properties. "

Andrea, you are doing just fine. Anyone familiar with these lenses will recognise your descriptions.

The Noct has character. Use the lens and learn its capabilities. There is no inherent magic to the Noct unless you, the photographer, can recognise the potential and unleash it.

Erik Lund

  • Global Moderator
  • **
  • Posts: 6489
  • Copenhagen
    • ErikLund.com
Re: If you simply must have a Noct-Nikkor 58/1.2....
« Reply #9 on: March 28, 2016, 10:40:46 »
Both 58mm are different to the 50mm 1.2
Erik Lund

Erik Lund

  • Global Moderator
  • **
  • Posts: 6489
  • Copenhagen
    • ErikLund.com
Re: If you simply must have a Noct-Nikkor 58/1.2....
« Reply #10 on: March 28, 2016, 11:39:53 »
The reviews stating the 50mm 1.2 is superior are looking at numbers - Completely wrong approach to the subject at hand IMHO.

The tonality, transition and the ability to make colors float into each other, the rendering and the feel of the images that's was counts with the 58mm 1.2 and 1.4- Also the 35mm 1.4 AFS has this ability, same optical designer and same goals for the optical properties of the lens.

We have a thread on the 58mm 1.4 AFS where there is a video interview with the lens designers clearly stating this!

The 50mm 1.2 has it's strong sides as well It is just a different tool than the 58mm 1.2 and 1.4
Erik Lund

Bjørn Rørslett

  • Fierce Bear of the North
  • Administrator
  • ***
  • Posts: 8252
  • Oslo, Norway
Re: If you simply must have a Noct-Nikkor 58/1.2....
« Reply #11 on: March 28, 2016, 12:18:29 »
Erik, wholeheartedly concur. Couldn't have put it better myself.

Besides the Nocts, I do use the 50/1.2 AIS and the 55/1.2 AI. Plus a raft of 50/1.4 Nikkors of various age. I don't appraise them against each other as they all are useful tools on their own.

John Koerner

  • Guest
Re: If you simply must have a Noct-Nikkor 58/1.2....
« Reply #12 on: March 28, 2016, 12:30:11 »
The reviews stating the 50mm 1.2 is superior are looking at numbers - Completely wrong approach to the subject at hand IMHO.

The tonality, transition and the ability to make colors float into each other, the rendering and the feel of the images that's was counts with the 58mm 1.2 and 1.4- Also the 35mm 1.4 AFS has this ability, same optical designer and same goals for the optical properties of the lens.

We have a thread on the 58mm 1.4 AFS where there is a video interview with the lens designers clearly stating this!

The 50mm 1.2 has it's strong sides as well It is just a different tool than the 58mm 1.2 and 1.4

Thank you for the explanation. Makes sense.

Curious how the 58 f/1.2 Noct compares to the 55 f/1.4 Otus in the rendering.


Erik Lund

  • Global Moderator
  • **
  • Posts: 6489
  • Copenhagen
    • ErikLund.com
Re: If you simply must have a Noct-Nikkor 58/1.2....
« Reply #13 on: March 28, 2016, 13:29:28 »
They are at the opposite ends of the scale ;)

Otus series lenses produces a clean crisp well defined image almost flawless in technical terms, amazing set of lenses they are true technical marvels - I would love to have that set of lenses as well to go along the Nikkor 1.4 AFS lenses,,, actually the Nikkor 85mm 1.4 AFS is close to the Otus performance although again softer and tiny bit more painterly,,, But sharpness wise up there.

There are several threads here on the Otus lenses as well!
Erik Lund

Andrea B.

  • Technical Adviser
  • *
  • Posts: 1671
Re: If you simply must have a Noct-Nikkor 58/1.2....
« Reply #14 on: March 28, 2016, 18:18:10 »
I find it very, very interesting just how *difficult* it is to express the characteristics of a lens aside from its MTF chart, which of course cannot tell the entire story.

When I tried to write about my Noct and 50/1.2, as compared to each other and to other lenses, I was quite stumped and had to resort to similie (...."paints like", "draws like".....). Sometime when I have time to think about it, I think I will attempt to determine if any of a lens' non-MTF characteristics can be reliably described or illustrated. For example, we all know that a lens' bokeh is easily demonstrated by making photos at wide apertures. But how to you show contrast, microcontrast, tonality and so forth inn a repeatible and reliable manner? There must be a way to show this for purposes of discussion in threads like this. Because I agree that when one of us states that a certain lens "has character", it does not really tell the reader much.  ;D