Author Topic: 150mm F2.8 EX DG OS HSM APO Macro - dysfunctional  (Read 6888 times)

stenrasmussen

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Re: 150mm F2.8 EX DG OS HSM APO Macro - dysfunctional
« Reply #15 on: February 18, 2016, 10:39:07 »
Thanks Erik!
Personally I am not obsessed with dust inside a lens but since this one goes back to my dealer for "used sale" I want to make the lenses I service as nice as possible.

PedroS

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Re: 150mm F2.8 EX DG OS HSM APO Macro - dysfunctional
« Reply #16 on: February 18, 2016, 11:12:29 »
Impressive work.
Still don't understand why the screws have to be all different... and that's not only Sigma...

Erik Lund

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Re: 150mm F2.8 EX DG OS HSM APO Macro - dysfunctional
« Reply #17 on: February 18, 2016, 11:33:52 »
The materials demand different threads to work, fine threads don't work in plastic, they get ripped out du to the area of material being too little - so you need more thread area, the threads are therefore deeper and longer in-between, a steeper angle that is.
Erik Lund

PedroS

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Re: 150mm F2.8 EX DG OS HSM APO Macro - dysfunctional
« Reply #18 on: February 18, 2016, 11:55:32 »
The materials demand different threads to work, fine threads don't work in plastic, they get ripped out du to the area of material being too little - so you need more thread area, the threads are therefore deeper and longer in-between, a steeper angle that is.

Sure Erik, metal and plastic do require different threads.
But how to explain different threads to metal, and not talking of fine vs coarse pitch, but metric with unc; bsw with unc, and so on...

Erik Lund

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Re: 150mm F2.8 EX DG OS HSM APO Macro - dysfunctional
« Reply #19 on: February 18, 2016, 12:39:19 »
I don't know if we should make a new topic, we can always split it later if needed I guess,,,

Metric with unc; bsw with unc

BSW was the first real standard for threads,,, British

UNC was based on Inch as well but American US - Metic was based on Meters, European

Here goes quickly some of the differences as to understand the basis for some differences:

First threads where custom made locally, obviously this created some issues when replacements where needed. So entry of Standards BS US DIN ISO JIS etc. Also some still are by company, country, region or global...

Our company, ship engines, use selected few thread sizes, they come in a Standards Book, to obtain as few variants as possible, less stock needed and less spares needed in design, models in 3D drawings, in the factory, in stock all over world and on the ship, same goes for the tool sizes etc. since our engines are build in Asia we use a base of standards that is a mix of JIS and ISO, old DS Danish Standards and even ship standards,,,

The use of the actual threads demand even further differences, like the ultimate in strength are trapezoidal threads they have a very large area similar to with the plastic, but if used in metal naturally the screw can also have the trapezoidal shape.
We use a special variant of trapezoidal threads since we tighten the long screws, studs, with hydraulic jacks, so the nut must be able to be turned only using hand tools while the stud is stretched to obtain the desired pre-tension - Therefore we have a company standard for that thread, and the allowed variant sizes.

The car industry has used Inch sizes and some still do, they have a more coarse thread size generally, preferred since easy disassembly many years later, rust etc. is more easy but also re-use of assembly tools as well as spares like above is a huge consideration,,,

For Aircraft you need low weight but high strength so the design and solution is a shorter bolt and nut with finer threads, less steep angle to get the number of threads engaged high to carry the load,,,

Erik Lund

stenrasmussen

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Re: 150mm F2.8 EX DG OS HSM APO Macro - dysfunctional
« Reply #20 on: February 18, 2016, 13:09:02 »
It now becomes obvious to me why tape is such a universal adhesive/fastener. Must be the reason why the little Nikkor 18-55 is taped together inside  ;D

Erik Lund

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Re: 150mm F2.8 EX DG OS HSM APO Macro - dysfunctional
« Reply #21 on: February 18, 2016, 13:22:13 »
He he yes!  ;D Actually adhesive tape is used in almost all Nikkors,,,

Usually to hold some parts of the focus ring together or to hold a thin metal shield into position under the rubber of the zoom ring  :o
Erik Lund

armando_m

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Re: 150mm F2.8 EX DG OS HSM APO Macro - dysfunctional
« Reply #22 on: February 18, 2016, 15:45:58 »
I don't know if we should make a new topic, we can always split it later if needed I guess,,,

Metric with unc; bsw with unc

BSW was the first real standard for threads,,, British

UNC was based on Inch as well but American US - Metic was based on Meters, European

Here goes quickly some of the differences as to understand the basis for some differences:

First threads where custom made locally, obviously this created some issues when replacements where needed. So entry of Standards BS US DIN ISO JIS etc. Also some still are by company, country, region or global...

Our company, ship engines, use selected few thread sizes, they come in a Standards Book, to obtain as few variants as possible, less stock needed and less spares needed in design, models in 3D drawings, in the factory, in stock all over world and on the ship, same goes for the tool sizes etc. since our engines are build in Asia we use a base of standards that is a mix of JIS and ISO, old DS Danish Standards and even ship standards,,,

The use of the actual threads demand even further differences, like the ultimate in strength are trapezoidal threads they have a very large area similar to with the plastic, but if used in metal naturally the screw can also have the trapezoidal shape.
We use a special variant of trapezoidal threads since we tighten the long screws, studs, with hydraulic jacks, so the nut must be able to be turned only using hand tools while the stud is stretched to obtain the desired pre-tension - Therefore we have a company standard for that thread, and the allowed variant sizes.

The car industry has used Inch sizes and some still do, they have a more coarse thread size generally, preferred since easy disassembly many years later, rust etc. is more easy but also re-use of assembly tools as well as spares like above is a huge consideration,,,

For Aircraft you need low weight but high strength so the design and solution is a shorter bolt and nut with finer threads, less steep angle to get the number of threads engaged high to carry the load,,,
Interesting insight

I'm curious about the start of the threads, a number of years ago cross threading was a problem I would find often , nowadays is very seldom,  I wonder do the start of the screws has this been improved or with time I'm just being more careful
Armando Morales
D800, Nikon 1 V1, Fuji X-T3

Erik Lund

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Re: 150mm F2.8 EX DG OS HSM APO Macro - dysfunctional
« Reply #23 on: February 18, 2016, 16:13:05 »
Tools for making the threads have improved a lot, all quality screws today are rolled between dies flat or round.

One of the leaps in technology was the Torx instead of Heagon, Phillips and JIS screwdriver design for the bit, suddenly the machines/robots could spin faster and hold on to the screw by itself and not risking jumping out, there is a huge amount of area between the bit and screw so much more torque can be transferred and with very little wear on the Torx bit, each ot the Torx 'waves' are also angled at the end of the bit as to catch the Torx 'hole' in the screw head evn while rotating at high speed,,,

Now that demands a better 'running in' where the screw actually catch the thread in the hole, that's my best guess as to why,,,
Erik Lund