Author Topic: Compensating MIcro Nikkor 55mm f/3.5 revisited  (Read 30390 times)

John Geerts

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Re: Compensating MIcro Nikkor 55mm f/3.5 revisited
« Reply #45 on: October 16, 2017, 10:02:48 »
On the Df I never had problems with my compensating 55/3.5 from 1963.   On close range 'much' crisper than the 55/2.8  (to my view). Best lens for macro in the 55mm range.

JKoerner007

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Re: Compensating MIcro Nikkor 55mm f/3.5 revisited
« Reply #46 on: October 16, 2017, 16:16:33 »
they all perform roughly the same :o :o :o
until you pixel-peep ::)

With extreme macro, you're definitely pixel-peeping ;)


the f/2.8 is more useful because your finder wont get dark

I think you're right, especially if I use the lens reversed. It's considered one of the best for larger coins, with less CA and greater resolution.

In fact, in the package insert for the Nikon PB-6 bellows, the literature recommends the 55mm Micro-Nikkor f/2.8, in particular,  for "critical close-ups."

However, when used as a general lens, as Bjørn and John point out, the 3/5 iteration (non-AI) was actually optimized for its closest distance ... whereas the 2.8 is more of a "catch-all" ... better at infinity ... with the 3.5 being better at the close-end.

Fortunately, they're all pretty cheap, so it makes sense to get two (or more), just because.

I am wanting to replace all my AI-S lenses with the older, non-AI, all-metal Nikkors ... because (in pristine condition) they are simply beautiful.

JKoerner007

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Re: Compensating MIcro Nikkor 55mm f/3.5 revisited
« Reply #47 on: October 16, 2017, 16:48:57 »
I own all versions of the f/3.5 (commencing with the 1:1 capable 5.5 cm design form the early '60s), and while it is true the f/2.8 successor might be delivering a tad better and more even performance all over its focusing range, the contrast and 'pop' of the f/3.5 models are not to be overlooked. Besides, I have had too many shots ruined (mainly in the film days, admittedly) by the unpredictable sticking aperture of the f/2.8.

Thanks.

My guess is (as you hinted earlier) Nikon probably changed the oil-type in the f/2.8 version over the years (without telling anyone). I have seen many people complain, as you have, about the sticky oil ... and others swear that never happened with theirs ... likely because Nikon 'continued to tweak the product' ... without telling anyone ;)

Not sure if the pre-AI are any different from the AI, quality-wise, but I will probably wind up with a brand new f/2.8 AI-S (for bellows) and the pre-AI, C or no C, for pleasure.

JKoerner007

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Re: Compensating MIcro Nikkor 55mm f/3.5 revisited
« Reply #48 on: October 16, 2017, 16:53:29 »
On the Df I never had problems with my compensating 55/3.5 from 1963.   On close range 'much' crisper than the 55/2.8  (to my view). Best lens for macro in the 55mm range.

Thanks. I assume pre-AI?

I recently saw an incredible image taken with the C version that was rich, sharp as sharp gets, with the "pop" that you and Bjørn describe.

I have other macro lenses in place, but am just not satisfied with the my 50mm AI-S as a field lens (doesn't get close enough) and will supplant it with a 55 micro-nikkor. Also, when reversed, the 50mm AI-S has a lot of CA. It's very clean, in some cases, but I think the 55 f/2.8 will excel here, based on reports, as well as Nikon's own product literature for bellows work.

Asle F

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Re: Compensating MIcro Nikkor 55mm f/3.5 revisited
« Reply #49 on: October 16, 2017, 19:34:49 »
For closeups, I prefer the f/3.5. At least in combination with extension tubes or bellows, because that one do not have close range correction, or should we call it far distance correction.
For general photographing, I prefer fhe f/2.8 because that is the best one for the task. The oily aperture is well known for me, so I have two of them just in case. The one I regulary have to clean the aperture, has higher serial number (250000 higher) than the one that has never had the issue.
There is no illusion, it just looks that way.

JKoerner007

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Re: Compensating MIcro Nikkor 55mm f/3.5 revisited
« Reply #50 on: October 16, 2017, 20:05:47 »
For closeups, I prefer the f/3.5.

Hi, which one?

Metal focus barrel, compensating aperture, pre-Ai?
Metal focus barrel, non-compensating aperture, pre-Ai?
Rubber focus barrel, pre-Ai?
Rubber focus barrel, Ai?

Thanks,

John Geerts

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Re: Compensating MIcro Nikkor 55mm f/3.5 revisited
« Reply #51 on: October 16, 2017, 20:27:53 »
Thanks. I assume pre-AI?
Yes, Metal focus barrel, compensating aperture, pre-Ai  - according to Roland's site the " F   55/3.5 Micro Auto NKJ   LMIJ   0   compensating, chrome, feet or m   188128 - 209525"  Mine has serial number 188145.

Roland Vink

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Re: Compensating MIcro Nikkor 55mm f/3.5 revisited
« Reply #52 on: October 16, 2017, 22:43:45 »
If you are looking for a standard lens for general use which is capable of the casual close-up, I would pick up the AIS 55/2.8 micro. Get one with a later serial number and you should be free of oily aperture blades - but always check the lens first. I tried using my AI 55/3.5 for the same purpose, it performs very well in this regard but I always had a feeling that f/3.5 was a bit too slow for a standard lens, while f/2.8 is just acceptable.

Shooting a standard lens less at than 3' (0.9m) is in what I would call the "close-up" range. All the 55 micros are perfectly capable here. In fact the AI 50/2 or 50/1.8 also do very well. It's only if you want to shoot closer than 1.5' (0.45m) that 50mm standard lenses stop and you need to consider a 55 micro. In this range the 55 micro is very handy, the shorter focal length compared to the 100mm class of lenses makes it easier to hold steady and frame accurately. However as you approach the close focus limit  (10", 0.25m) you will find the working distance is very short, it may be difficult to approach the subject close enough without putting your shadow across it. If you intend to work more at higher magnification I would recommend something like the AIS 105/4 or AIS 105/2.8 micro to give you more working distance. These are great for general shooting but for higher magnifications you really need to use a tripod for best results. If you want to shoot hand-held, maybe something with VR like like the Tamron 90/2.8 VC would be a better option - but I get the feeling you want a classic lens instead :)

If you have your heart set on a 55/3.5 micro of some sort, it pays to know which is which. All have basically the same 5/4 optical arrangement although there is some suggestion the optics were tweaked and refined along the way, with early models better corrected for macro shooting, while the later ones sacrifice some close range optimisation for better all-round performance.

I wouldn't consider the very early 5.5cm preset models, they are really collector pieces these days, the handling is not so convenient, and no meter or aperture coupling so it is strictly stop-down metering.

Next come the "compensating" versions with the metal scalloped focus ring. The compensating aperture is designed to work with EXTERNAL light meters to ensure the light reaching the film/sensor is constant regardless of the amount of extension/focus distance. If you use one of these lenses on a camera with TTL metering, the exposures will be ok near infinity but become increasingly overexposed at close range. The TTL meter doesn't know about the compensating feature so you need to manually counter-compensate which is not so convenient.

Next comes the Micro-Nikkor-P versions with the diamond pattern grip. This is NOT compensating - by this time cameras with TTL light meters were more common, which automatically compensate for light lost due to extension. At this point it seems the optics were tweaked for better all-round performance at the expense of outright macro performance (although the manuals state it is optimised for 1:10 like the the older versions, which suggests they are the same ??) The same lens continued more or less unchanged with the Micro-Nikkor-P.C with mulicoating, the late pre-AI/K/New-Nikkor version with the modern barrel design, and finally the AI version. For convenience I would go for the AI version since it's compatible with all cameras, and is multicoated.

David H. Hartman

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Re: Compensating MIcro Nikkor 55mm f/3.5 revisited
« Reply #53 on: October 16, 2017, 23:06:26 »
Hi, which one?

Metal focus barrel, compensating aperture, pre-Ai?
Metal focus barrel, non-compensating aperture, pre-Ai?
Rubber focus barrel, pre-Ai?
Rubber focus barrel, Ai?

Thanks,

My preference is a 55/2.8 AIS Micro Nikkor if 1:2 is all one needs. The 55/2.8 has floating elements so use the shortest tube necessary and the greatest helical extension to keep those floating elements at the close-up position when going above 1:2. To do this a PK-12 and PK-13 is an advantage. One might also add a PK-11a.

The 55/3.5 Micro-Nikkor (compensating version) is inexpensive. If it's not AI modified (which may mess with your exposure) it will fit any camera with a fixed meter coupling lever if and only if you use the Nikon M or M2 tube. These tubes are beveled at the base and do not cause harm to cameras like the FM2n FE2, F5, D2H, D300s and D800. These are cameras I own or have owned.

The way this plays out I'd prefer the 55/2.8 AIS Micro for infinity to 1:2 and the 55/3.5 Micro (compensating) for 1:2 to 1:1.

Dave Hartman

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David H. Hartman

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Re: Compensating MIcro Nikkor 55mm f/3.5 revisited
« Reply #54 on: October 16, 2017, 23:19:07 »
Next come the "compensating" versions with the metal scalloped focus ring. The compensating aperture is designed to work with EXTERNAL light meters to ensure the light reaching the film/sensor is constant regardless of the amount of extension/focus distance. If you use one of these lenses on a camera with TTL metering, the exposures will be ok near infinity but become increasingly overexposed at close range. The TTL meter doesn't know about the compensating feature so you need to manually counter-compensate which is not so convenient.

This should not be a problem if the lens is not AI modified. If AI modified the "fork" inside the lens should be switched from a slanted compensating one to a straight one. I don't know if the factory AI kit contained this part. I sorry I don't know the proper name for the part.

The compensating feature doesn't work at f/3.5 as the lens aperture is already wide open and can't be open more to compensate for extention. I don't have time to check even though I own a couple and one is probably in a drawer behind me. The compensation feature is functional at least from f/5.6 and down.

At about $100.00 (USD) I feel a compensation version is well worth owning. For general photography the f/2.8 aperture is my preference.

Dave

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+1 to all Roland Vink wrote.

The M and M2 tubes only offer Auto Aperture, no meter coupling. If you using TTL then you'd tell the non-CPU data that you were using a 55mm f/11 lens if you were shooting at f/11. As you focus closer the compensating feature opens the iris and keeps the lens at an effective f/11.

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Bjørn Rørslett

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Re: Compensating MIcro Nikkor 55mm f/3.5 revisited
« Reply #55 on: October 16, 2017, 23:19:17 »
"I wouldn't consider the very early 5.5cm preset models"

Apart from the ridiculously inflated asking price of the 5.5 m Micro, it has the severe drawback that on modern cameras it cannot be focused towards infinity. This is caused by a rear flange interfering with the current camera mount.

Roland Vink

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Re: Compensating MIcro Nikkor 55mm f/3.5 revisited
« Reply #56 on: October 16, 2017, 23:37:27 »
As mentioned earlier, the 55/3.5 Micro-Nikkor (compensating version) is designed for cameras without TTL metering. As such they work relatively well on low-end DSLRs such as the D3xxx and D5xxx. These cameras will accept most pre-AI lenses with no issue since they have no AI tab to get in the way. There is no TTL metering so you either need to use an external meter, or guess, shoot, review and adjust until you get the exposure right - once you have got it right it won't change as you focus due to the compensating feature :o

AI modification of the compensating micro only swapped out the aperture ring. Changing the lens from compensating to non-compensating is more involved and best left to members of the "What the Nerds Do" forum :)

Roland Vink

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Re: Compensating MIcro Nikkor 55mm f/3.5 revisited
« Reply #57 on: October 16, 2017, 23:53:07 »
This is a very interesting thread topic.

I am in the process of determining 'which' of the multitude of 55mm Micro-Nikkors to use to replace my 50mm f/2 AI-S.
[...]
Trouble is, I am starting to fall in love with the older, non-AI, Nikkor lenses ... the ones with the scalloped, all-metal rings :D
Have you looked at the new Voigtlander 40/2 SLIIS? It has close focusing to 0.25m, giving 1:4 magnifications. That's about mid-way between the 50/2 and 55 micro in terms of close focusing. Should be good enough for most casual closeups, unless you are looking for more serious macro.

It has the faster f/2 aperture, a CPU, plus it has the classic metal scalloped focus ring. Personally I'd prefer the same with a slightly longer focal length but I am tempted... :o

David H. Hartman

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Re: Compensating MIcro Nikkor 55mm f/3.5 revisited
« Reply #58 on: October 17, 2017, 01:21:17 »
To use the 55/3.5 compensating aperture version on a D800 with 2D matrix metering here is how it's done...

1) install the lens on a Nikon M tube and both on the camera
2) Set the lens aperture to f/8 and read f/11 on the M tube's alternate aperture scale. This is compensation for the additional 27.5mm of extension.
3) Set the non-CPU data any lens number 1 to 9, set focal length to 55+27.5+13.75=96.25 (100mm) and the maximum aperture to f/11

You are ready to shoot.

This is pretty much the same as I'd do if I were shooting with an enlarging lenses lens such as a 150/5.6 El Nikkor on a PB-4 Bellows. I'd be shooting in full manual and I'd check the tri-color histogram and touch up the exposure as needed. This is not for hand held use. It's for working on a tripod which is slow so it's not as bad as it sounds.

A properly modified lens including changing replacing the fork thing makes more sense if hand holding. I'm sure Bjorn has at least one that been chipped.

I think one can see why I'm going to reach for a 55/2.8 AIS Micro to take on a walk. I'd also prefer my 55/3.5 native AI but it laughs in the cabinet.

I've never shot my 55/3.5 Micro, compensating aperture at infinity. It's reputed to be kind of a puppy at infinity. The 55/2.8 AIS Micro is top rated by a coin collecting group at up to 1:2. There is a link somewhere here at Nikon Gear.

Dave

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Neither the 55/2.8 AIS Micro nor the 55/3.5 AI Micro reports it's focal length and effective aperture as you focus closer so metering touch up may be needed. The AF 60/2.8D Micro and AF-S 60/2.8G ED Micro do and would probably be a better choice on a recent Nikon dSLR.
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JKoerner007

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Re: Compensating MIcro Nikkor 55mm f/3.5 revisited
« Reply #59 on: October 17, 2017, 15:46:57 »
Appreciate all the feedback, thanks.