Author Topic: 200-500 f/5.6  (Read 30433 times)

Peter Connan

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Re: 200-500 f/5.6
« Reply #75 on: January 26, 2016, 18:55:17 »
This is the D750 and 500mm f4. 1/2000, f8, ISO12800.

The lens and camera are calibrated together and have many sharp photos to their credit. I believe it's the high ISO that is robbing the detail here.

To me it looks quite similar in detail to the image under discussion?

Peter Connan

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Re: 200-500 f/5.6
« Reply #76 on: January 26, 2016, 18:57:20 »
As to fine-tuning, my general impression is that this theme is overrated as far as its importance goes. Better AF handling on the user side can do more than fine-tuning the lens.

I would love an explanation of this (probably ideally in a separate thread?).

Tersn

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Re: 200-500 f/5.6
« Reply #77 on: January 26, 2016, 19:33:03 »
1/2500 sec is no guarantee - was VR engaged?
No VR engaged. I have close to hundred similar shots taken within half an hour and with the same settings. You can't have motions in all of them!
Terje S.

Tersn

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Re: 200-500 f/5.6
« Reply #78 on: January 26, 2016, 19:34:55 »
This is the D750 and 500mm f4. 1/2000, f8, ISO12800.

The lens and camera are calibrated together and have many sharp photos to their credit. I believe it's the high ISO that is robbing the detail here.

To me it looks quite similar in detail to the image under discussion?

The image appears to be missing.
Terje S.

Roland Vink

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Re: 200-500 f/5.6
« Reply #79 on: January 26, 2016, 20:49:57 »
To return to the 200-500:
Here is a still shot with the same high ISO (12800) and the D810. No noise reduction applied to the bird or the background, just some sharpening. Judge by yourself whether or not this bird is in focus.
Focus appears to be sharper on the bird's legs and wing feathers, the front of the body and head are slightly in front of the focus plane so are a bit out of focus. The smallish aperture means there is enough DOF to capture some details over the whole bird, but it looks sort-of in focus, not really sharp.

Peter Connan

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Re: 200-500 f/5.6
« Reply #80 on: January 27, 2016, 05:51:55 »
Sorry Tersn, don't know what happened.

Øivind Tøien

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Re: 200-500 f/5.6
« Reply #81 on: January 27, 2016, 07:39:52 »
Terje, I shot quite a few frames of black capped chickadees here in Fairbanks recently with my 300PF on D7100. These are probably just as fast as yours, and were filling about the same part of the frame. Usually VR was on at 1/640 - 1/1000 second (although it is recommended to turn it off in that shutter speed range), ISO 1600-3200. The "keeper" rate was surprisingly high as long as I managed to get the focus point near the eye in that fraction of a second that was available. Most non-keepers had the bird out of the frame when it took off, or the bird had its back turned toward me so there wasn't enough to focus on to get the eye sharp. (Some also had too slow shutter speed.) Light levels were pretty poor, often at dusk. No AF tuning applied.

Is it possible that the 200-500 just does not focus fast enough for these small birds? Did you have AF-C configured with shutter priority (and AF-on) which is pretty standard for these kind of applications. Then the shutter will of course fire even if the lens has not finished focusing. However this should be possible to detect as it would lead to either back focus or front focus depending of the direction the bird moves.
Øivind Tøien

Tersn

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Re: 200-500 f/5.6
« Reply #82 on: January 27, 2016, 20:22:44 »
Øivind: Yes, it could be that  the 200-500 is focusing a bit slow for such birds. However, it could be that the camera D810 has something to do with it too; my results have usually been much better with the D3s and the 200-500. I was using AF-C with manual priority (AF-On) and release option. This should imply that the camera fires even with the bird out of focus. I might try to use the focus option, but then most of the birds will probably vanish out of frame before the shot has been fired. Usually there is  time for no more than one shot, even with shutter speed around 1/2000 sec (this still applies to the faster D3s). Oh, and the VR is off.
Terje S.

Erik Lund

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Re: 200-500 f/5.6
« Reply #83 on: January 27, 2016, 20:47:27 »
The old work horse the D3 is 12 MP completely other animal to compare to a D810 IMHO...

Setting up a camera for optimum AF is something that takes time to master, for these little fast ones I would try 3D-Focus Tracking since it is predictive in the calculation of where the subject is going to be when the shutter actually fires... But there a so many AF sub settings... ;)
http://www.nikonusa.com/en/learn-and-explore/article/ftlzi4lx/3d-focus-tracking.html
Erik Lund

Øivind Tøien

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Re: 200-500 f/5.6
« Reply #84 on: January 27, 2016, 22:51:53 »

Terje, I agree that focus priority instead of release is not an option in these situations. I used dynamic 9-point for the chickadee images, as I have seen comments that 3D tracking is not fast enough to follow in many situations, at least on the D7100 body.
Øivind Tøien

Tersn

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Re: 200-500 f/5.6
« Reply #85 on: January 28, 2016, 09:01:55 »
Quote
Setting up a camera for optimum AF is something that takes time to master, for these little fast ones I would try 3D-Focus Tracking since it is predictive in the calculation of where the subject is going to be when the shutter actually fires... But there a so many AF sub settings... ;)

Terje, I agree that focus priority instead of release is not an option in these situations. I used dynamic 9-point for the chickadee images, as I have seen comments that 3D tracking is not fast enough to follow in many situations, at least on the D7100 body.

That 3D-tracking is too slow for such fast birds, is something I too have experienced a long time ago. Unless I learn that Nikon recently made significant improvements to that function, I will not retry it. I have noticed that Nikon recommends dynamic 51-points for fast birds, so that is why I have used it on my D810. Now I can se that for my D3s I have (after a long time of testing) been using 9-points instead. Therefore, I will try 9-p on the D810 too, as soon as the weather improves a bit. Nobody said it is going to be easy  :). Accordingly, it is quite useful to be able to discuss such issues in detail with other photographers (as we have presently been doing in this thread)  :) :)
Terje S.

Erik Lund

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Re: 200-500 f/5.6
« Reply #86 on: January 28, 2016, 09:12:29 »
Exactly! My understanding is that they did improve 3D-Focus Tracking... I might be completely wrong - These little ones are erratic!- I don't do BIF except a few times with 500mm Ai-P on a safari for fun ;)
Erik Lund

Øivind Tøien

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Re: 200-500 f/5.6
« Reply #87 on: January 28, 2016, 09:19:30 »
You mean on the D500? That would be very likely with the separate processor for the AF system.

BTW, while VR is not supposed to be on at these high shutter speeds, the more stable viewfinder image does help the autofocus system and the user to place the focus point more accurately.
Øivind Tøien

Tersn

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Re: 200-500 f/5.6
« Reply #88 on: January 28, 2016, 09:51:44 »
This is the D750 and 500mm f4. 1/2000, f8, ISO12800.

The lens and camera are calibrated together and have many sharp photos to their credit. I believe it's the high ISO that is robbing the detail here.

To me it looks quite similar in detail to the image under discussion?

I hope it is mostly caused by the high ISO. Time should tell. Interesting  that other people have had similar experiences.
Terje S.

Bjørn Rørslett

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Re: 200-500 f/5.6
« Reply #89 on: January 28, 2016, 09:56:25 »
BTW, while VR is not supposed to be on at these high shutter speeds, the more stable viewfinder image does help the autofocus system and the user to place the focus point more accurately.

On several long Nikkors I have tested, leaving VR 'On' at high shutter speeds caused visible artefacts and local degradation of the image.

VR is a blade cutting two ways and might be a blessing and a course. Don't engage the feature unless you feel it is unavoidable is my general advice.