Author Topic: Nikkor 200mm F/4 Ai Ai-S  (Read 22638 times)

John Geerts

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Nikkor 200mm F/4 Ai Ai-S
« on: August 23, 2015, 11:39:57 »
Has some-one experience with the Nikkor 200mm F/4 Ai or Ai-S?   Can it be compared to the 180mm F/2.8. Quality-size? How does it behave on the FX's?

Frank Fremerey

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Re: Nikkor 200mm F/4 Ai Ai-S
« Reply #1 on: August 23, 2015, 12:39:10 »
Fun. I just wanted to start a thread about this lens in my daily practice later today with a lot of examples.

I might well abduct your thread for it now...
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Hugh_3170

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Re: Nikkor 200mm F/4 Ai Ai-S
« Reply #2 on: August 23, 2015, 13:02:10 »
I have both the the 200mm f/4 AiS (a non Micro lens) and the 180mm f/2.8 AiS. 

The 200mm lens is a good performer and is light and relatively inexpensive.  A worthy contender for a lightweight lens kit of primes.  The 180mm is much heavier and relatively expensive - maybe twice as much on both counts.  It is however a much better performer and is faster by one stop.  Horses for courses I believe.  What are your intended uses?

 
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Jakov Minić

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Re: Nikkor 200mm F/4 Ai Ai-S
« Reply #3 on: August 23, 2015, 13:43:04 »
John, I have one, and I can bring along to Schwarzwald if you would like to try it out?

(I use it mostly with an extension ring for micro shots with a long working distance)
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Frank Fremerey

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Re: Nikkor 200mm F/4 Ai Ai-S
« Reply #4 on: August 23, 2015, 14:05:48 »
It is not a Bokeh monster  8)

[right click "view image" for full size]
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John Geerts

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Re: Nikkor 200mm F/4 Ai Ai-S
« Reply #5 on: August 23, 2015, 14:09:22 »
Thank you Jakov. That can be an option. Which means it's a good micro-performer as well?  It will be a very intensive Schwarzwald trip I guess  ;)     The lens was offered to me at a reasonable price I think (70 euro) but I am not sure how it works on D700 and higher-end camera's.

Hugh:  My main usage would be to have a lighter, more portable lens for longer distance-work (PJ - nature etc.), instead of the heavier ones (80-200 F/2.8,  Micro 200, 300 F4)

Hugh_3170

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Re: Nikkor 200mm F/4 Ai Ai-S
« Reply #6 on: August 23, 2015, 14:35:20 »
John, I believe that the 200mm f/4.0 Ai/AiS would be a good choice for your intended use.  Jakov's offer to try his copy out is a great idea.

Whilst the 180mm is a great lens, it is certainly in the same weight class as the heavier  (80-200 F/2.8,  Micro 200, and 300 F4) lenses that you mention.  The 180mm has ED Glass and more lens elements that the 200mm lens and is quite a bulky beast.  It is popular for astro phography on account of its speed and optical performance.    I have installed CPU chips in both my 180mm and 200mm lenses; these were sourced from Bjørn Rørslett and just happen to be particularly easy to install in these two lenses.
Hugh Gunn

Frank Fremerey

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Re: Nikkor 200mm F/4 Ai Ai-S
« Reply #7 on: August 23, 2015, 14:37:37 »
Oho, you are not talking about the Micro-Nikkor 4/200 AIS, which I am talking about and which is a great table top lens but not only. Today I shot this pano near infinity. It is 75 Megapixels in original size and somewhat difficult to render (I bought this Micro after a hint of Bjørn & Erik for Macro work @300 Euro very great state) :
You are out there. You and your camera. You can shoot or not shoot as you please. Discover the world, Your world. Show it to us. Or we might never see it.

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Bjørn Rørslett

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Re: Nikkor 200mm F/4 Ai Ai-S
« Reply #8 on: August 23, 2015, 14:59:56 »
Both the 200/4 AI/AIS and the 180/2.8 ED perform well with PN-11 or similar extension added.

Roland Vink

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Re: Nikkor 200mm F/4 Ai Ai-S
« Reply #9 on: August 23, 2015, 23:39:49 »
Has some-one experience with the Nikkor 200mm F/4 Ai or Ai-S?   Can it be compared to the 180mm F/2.8. Quality-size? How does it behave on the FX's?
Sharpness of the AI/AIS 200/4 is similar to the AIS 180/2.8 ED, perhaps a little less wide open. The 180 benefits from the ED element so is better corrected for CA, but is still not perfect.

Close-range performance is similar - the 200 focuses to 2m, and the 180 gets to 1.8m, both 10x focal length, and both achieving about 1:7.5 magnification. They perform well with closeup filters or on extension tubes if greater magnification is desired.

The 200 and 180 both have 9-blade apertures with straight sides, so the opening is distinctly polygonal when stopped down, not rounded - clearly shown in Frank's picture above. The AI 200/4 is worse - the aperture blades are a bit short so the tips intrude into the opening giving a saw-tooth effect at wider apertures. The AIS version has longer blades which fully overlap to avoid this problem so if bokeh is important I'd get the AIS version. Ignoring the shape of the aperture (which affects out of focus specular highlights) the general rendition of background is smooth with both the 200 and 180 - not surprising they are similar since both have similar 5/4 optical designs (the AF 180/2.8 has a different IF-ED design with 8/6 elements)

the 200 and 180 both have pull-out hoods which are reasonably deep and effective. Handling is similar too, although the 180 is a lot heavier and fatter. With simple helical focusing, focusing can be a little slow and heavy compared to modern designs, but it allows for careful and precise focusing.

Probably the main choice is whether you prefer the smaller, lighter 200/4, which takes 52mm filters like most other manual focus models, or the larger faster 180 which is better corrected for CA. There is also the Cosina-Voigtlander 180/4 APO which is probably better corrected than both, and focuses much closer, but it is out of production and rare, prices have risen steeply over the last few years.

Another option is the AIS 200/4 micro. I used this lens a lot some years ago, it performed extremely well on film (Velvia). I have not had much time to use it recently and it has a reputation for a lot of CA on digital cameras. Although I mostly used it at close range I did compare it a few times on with my non micro 200/4, on distance subjects it seemed to perform as well (tested on film), but my test was not exhaustive. Take the tripod foot off and it weighs about the same as the non-micro version although a bit longer and the focus ring is inconveniently far forward, so handling is not as good. However it handles extremely well on a tripod.

John Geerts

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Re: Nikkor 200mm F/4 Ai Ai-S
« Reply #10 on: August 24, 2015, 00:04:15 »
Thank you for your explanation, Roland. That's very helpful.

richardHaw

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Re: Nikkor 200mm F/4 Ai Ai-S
« Reply #11 on: March 26, 2016, 12:13:14 »
here's mine. it's one heck of a lens. great for backpacking :o :o :o

Jakov Minić

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Re: Nikkor 200mm F/4 Ai Ai-S
« Reply #12 on: March 26, 2016, 15:13:34 »
I have both 180/2.8 and 200/4 AIS lenses and in my experience they are miles apart.
The color rendition, the contrast, the sharpness, the bokeh, ease of focusing, all in favor of the 180/2.8.
Only the size and weight favor the 200/4.

Free your mind and your ass will follow. - George Clinton
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richardHaw

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Re: Nikkor 200mm F/4 Ai Ai-S
« Reply #13 on: March 26, 2016, 15:17:49 »
Only the size and weight favor the 200/4.

this lens line actually became redundant now that great performing compact zooms came out. :o :o :o

Jakov Minić

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Re: Nikkor 200mm F/4 Ai Ai-S
« Reply #14 on: March 26, 2016, 15:37:20 »
this lens line actually became redundant now that great performing compact zooms came out. :o :o :o

I am not certain that any compact zoom lens can outperform the 180/2.8, neither can they be shot at f/2.8.
Free your mind and your ass will follow. - George Clinton
Before I jump like monkey give me banana. - Fela Kuti
Confidence is what you have before you understand the problem. - Woody Allen