Author Topic: AFS Nikkor 105/2.8 VR CA issue  (Read 1952 times)

MEPER

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Re: AFS Nikkor 105/2.8 VR CA issue
« Reply #15 on: June 13, 2024, 21:00:41 »
Here is the same test just with the old 55/3.5 Nikkor-P compensating type with M-adapter attached so it goes to 1:1 at closets distance.
Also some CA but less than the 105/2.8?

MEPER

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Re: AFS Nikkor 105/2.8 VR CA issue
« Reply #16 on: June 13, 2024, 21:05:00 »
Same test again but with AIS 105/4 micro with PN-11 adapter at f/4.

MEPER

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Re: AFS Nikkor 105/2.8 VR CA issue
« Reply #17 on: June 13, 2024, 21:13:33 »
Last example for now a Nikkor Scanner lens. It has fixed aperture but how difficult can it be to make a lens with very little CA?
That is the smallest lens of them all (a 7-lens design as I remember). Just a few cm long and a couple of cm wide put into a small adapter that just needs a M42 to Z adapter.
I don't have any Z-extenders to get higher magnification but lens will do well also at higher magnifications.

MEPER

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Re: AFS Nikkor 105/2.8 VR CA issue
« Reply #18 on: June 13, 2024, 21:56:51 »
Ok......one more example. The smallest lens. It sits in a Ø18 to RMS adapter and then from RMS to M39 and then M39 to Z-adapter.
With this setup it has a little higher magnification then the scanner Nikkor lens. This lens is a Minolta scanner lens from a Dimage 5400 scanner. This that was the name. Very tiny lens.....but it does well.
Minolta could also design lenses but I have no idea if lens was made inhouse and if Minolta made their own glass like Nikon, Canon etc.

MEPER

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Re: AFS Nikkor 105/2.8 VR CA issue
« Reply #19 on: June 13, 2024, 21:59:36 »
All crops are 100% crops. That the reason I split the images in pairs so one image did not exceed the max. allowed file size.

Akira

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Re: AFS Nikkor 105/2.8 VR CA issue
« Reply #20 on: June 14, 2024, 00:38:59 »
If I understand correctly, faster lenses suffer from the LoCA more.  Stopping down will mitigate the problem.  I guess the scanner lenses are relatively slow (around f5.6?).
"The eye is blind if the mind is absent." - Confucius

"Limitation is inspiration." - Akira

MEPER

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Re: AFS Nikkor 105/2.8 VR CA issue
« Reply #21 on: June 14, 2024, 08:00:05 »
I don't know the aperture of the scanner lens.
Information here says it is an 8 element design in 4 groups and designed by a German company (mirold optics). This was new information for me.
https://www.closeuphotography.com/minolta-dimage-scan-elite-5400-lens

But probably slower than f/2.8.

I can do a similar test with AFS 105 stopped down. The first images in the thread of the drawing instruments where with lens stopped down to maybe f/8.

MEPER

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Re: AFS Nikkor 105/2.8 VR CA issue
« Reply #22 on: June 14, 2024, 08:21:31 »
Here AFS 105/2.8 stopped down to f/8 which reduces the problem to maybe an acceptable level for many I guess.
What I also observed is that at closets focus distance the aperture on body shows f/4.8 ......I need to go to lager distance to have f/2.8 shown but aperture was full open.
The images here is therefore only a bit stopped down to show f/8 on body.

MEPER

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Re: AFS Nikkor 105/2.8 VR CA issue
« Reply #23 on: June 14, 2024, 08:23:17 »
The scanner lenses still do a better job......

MEPER

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Re: AFS Nikkor 105/2.8 VR CA issue
« Reply #24 on: June 14, 2024, 08:56:21 »
Here is how the old Micro-Nikkor 55/3.5 looks when stopped down to f/8 on lens with M-adapter (to achieve 1:1 at closets focus distance).
It does a better job than the AFS 105/2.8?

Birna Rørslett

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Re: AFS Nikkor 105/2.8 VR CA issue
« Reply #25 on: June 14, 2024, 09:08:23 »
Here AFS 105/2.8 stopped down to f/8 which reduces the problem to maybe an acceptable level for many I guess.
What I also observed is that at closets focus distance the aperture on body shows f/4.8 ......I need to go to lager distance to have f/2.8 shown but aperture was full open.
The images here is therefore only a bit stopped down to show f/8 on body.

Nikkors usually show the *effective* aperture, not the nominal f-number (defined for infinity focus). The lens needs to have a factory CPU in order to do this.

The 105/4 Micro-Nikkor set to f/4 is f/8 effective at 1:1, thus if you set f/8 on the aperture ring the lens is effectively f/16 (at 1:1 with the PN-ring). However, with your AFS 105/2.8, if you dial in f/8 on the camera, you do get f/8 effective. You cannot get to f/2.8 at 1:1, since the effective speed is 4.8, as you already have discovered.

Not sure what the effective aperture is on these scanner lenses. My Scanner ED from LS-4000 is around 46mm focal length with nominal aperture f/2.6 if memory serves. That would indicate it operates around f/5.6-f/8 effective when used for photomacrography. I have set up my lens for 1.5X.

Erik Lund

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Re: AFS Nikkor 105/2.8 VR CA issue
« Reply #26 on: June 14, 2024, 09:35:36 »
Lenses for photography are usually a compromise since they need focus to infinity also, and the internal focusing with floating elements makes all (most) loose focal length as they focus closer.
They also struggle with extension tubes/bellows most of them wit IF.
The old unit focusing lenses excel in ability to use extension.
Also,,, a Scanner lens is optimized for a very limited distance range only,,, ::)
Optics are all about sacrifice and optimize for these parameters to suit an intended purpose, all depending on what your need is you will most often settle with one favorite lens do all or you will need a whole shelf full of lenses to choose from depending on the task at hand,,,  :o :o :o
Erik Lund

Birna Rørslett

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Re: AFS Nikkor 105/2.8 VR CA issue
« Reply #27 on: June 14, 2024, 10:08:06 »
The scanner lenses will only work [well] within a narrow range of magnifications. As a starting point, 0.8X to 1.6 or thereabouts. The narrower range the better if you achieve changed magnification by using a focusing helicoid. By trial and error  found  I could run my LS-4000ED scanner lens at m=1.5 (1.5X) with good results. Focus stacking is almost mandatory if subjects have any depth to them, since the depth of field is so paper thin.

I have a Laowa 100mm f/2.8 that in a pinch can go towards m=2, but working distance becomes too short to allow a lens shade. Thus I stop at m=1.  The Olympus OM 38mm f/2.8 adapted to Nikon mount can do m=1.7-1.9. It is also very robust and can be deployed under rough field conditions so is my preferred travel lens. For further magnifications, the Laowa 25mm f/2.8 covers m=2.5-5. From then on the solution is using Mitutoyo metallurgical objectives and infinity focus tube lenses for m=5, 10, and 20. Anything m>2 calls for studio work. m> 50 calls for a microscope in most cases.

The magnification m~1.5 is in fact very useful for my work, as it is sufficient for documenting infestations of rust and smut fungi, plus minute details of my aquatic plants. Thus I use the scanner lens approach quite frequently. I put an improvised "lens shade" on it using a C-mount extension tube, and also carefully blackened the interior of the adapter to Z mount because this lens is quite susceptible to flare and stray light.

MEPER

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Re: AFS Nikkor 105/2.8 VR CA issue
« Reply #28 on: June 14, 2024, 20:19:49 »
When I need to do a fast macro shot I often put the 55/3.5 micro on as it always delivers good results.
The AFS 105/2.8 can be "downgraded" to a general purpose lens. It has nice bokeh and has a bit low contrast at full aperture so maybe a good portrait lens?`
I think if I find where the lens can be useful it will be more worth than the 200 euro I can get for it if sold private. A dealer will probably not pay more than 100 euro if it is part of a purchase.

I made a couple of more shots with the lens. This time at medium close distance. First example is full open and body says f/3. Attached is the full frame and then three 100% crops showing the focus, close focus blur and far focus blur. CA is much less at this distance. In many cases not a problem?

MEPER

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Re: AFS Nikkor 105/2.8 VR CA issue
« Reply #29 on: June 14, 2024, 20:27:05 »
Same test just at f/8. Here I would say that CA is almost gone?