Author Topic: When the Z6 series is being rebated, it makes me think a new range may be coming  (Read 1448 times)

photograph works

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In the UK as of today November 4, 2023 the Nikon Z6 Il Digital Camera with 24-70mm f4 Lens is being rebated. For example "Save £420, Was £2,549, now £2,129" - and rebated make me think a new range might be coming. Any information about this?

Birna Rørslett

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One might suspect a Mk.III version is to replace the older Mk.I-II ??

dko22

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if anything was even remotely imminent, there would certainly be some mention on the rumour sites. I think it's most unlikely there will be anything before the spring. Of course a refresh to that line is overdue -- the mark ii changed little of significance over the original which has been out five years now.

Ilkka Nissilä

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if anything was even remotely imminent, there would certainly be some mention on the rumour sites. I think it's most unlikely there will be anything before the spring. Of course a refresh to that line is overdue -- the mark ii changed little of significance over the original which has been out five years now.

I don't quite agree; the II version included the wide-area L with subject detection for autofocus and I found this to be quintessential in getting the focusing system to focus on human subjects' eyes without being distracted by other potential subjects across the image area (human or otherwise; limiting the area to the desired subject helped me greatly). In the first model of the Z6 series, the only way to use eye AF was to use auto area which to me was not usable in practice. The Z6 II is quite reliable for event and portrait photography, with the exception of fast-approaching subjects. For those, Expeed 7 was needed to get a high percentage of focus keepers, as shown by the Z9/Z8 and also recently the Zf.

I think for Nikon, the Z6 III will be important and will hopefully put Nikon back on the map also for the middle sector of the market. The Zf already performs well enough for me, and allows one to customize with considerable freedom, which part of the frame subjects can be focused on, and this makes its use practical and productive for the type of photography that I do. The Z8 is better (higher consistency of focus) but I think for the majority of photographers who are not specializing on fast action photography, the Zf is probably sufficient in terms of performance. The Z6 III can in my opinion be successful by simply including the Zf internals (sensor and processor) with standard-issue Z6 series physical features and ports. This includes CFexpress/XQD + SD UHS-II card slots, WR-R10 / MC-DC2 port, optional vertical grip, more Fn buttons than on the Zf, and general shape and size from the Z6 series.

Probably a lot of people will say that more megapixels are needed, but those are already available in the Z7 II, Z8 and Z9; I just don't see the benefit of increased pixel count without the increase being truly significant. Now, if they put out a Z7 III that includes the above-mentioned features and 90-100 MP, I'll consider that a significant increase. Keeping the Z6 series at 24 MP would give advantages in economies of scale as sticking to the same sensor enables keeping the price in check; perhaps around 2200€; lower than the Zf as those brass dials and making the camera so thin must have been a technical challenge and increase the cost. After all, they must have forgotten how to make those dials so nicely before learning to make them again. ;-)

Unfortunately, the rebates are quite common (several times per year for many products) and it doesn't necessarily mean a new model is imminent. However, since the Zf is out there I think Nikon should be technologically ready to launch the Z6 III and maybe a Z7 III as well (assuming that these two are launched in pairs, as before).

Roland Vink

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The 24MP sensor used in the Z5, Z6 series and Zf are based on the sensor originally used in the D600 from 10 years ago. Of course, there have been a lot of improvements to the sensor in this time, but I get the feeling there will be a lot of disappointment if the next generation Z6 continues to use the same basic sensor. Possibly the reason the Z6III is delayed so long is that Nikon is developing a new generation sensor which will keep it ahead of its rivals - maybe an increase in resolution to 30MP and with the same performance as the 24MP sensor, or a global shutter like the newly announced Sony A9III.

Ilkka Nissilä

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The 24MP sensor used in the Z5, Z6 series and Zf are based on the sensor originally used in the D600 from 10 years ago. Of course, there have been a lot of improvements to the sensor in this time, but I get the feeling there will be a lot of disappointment if the next generation Z6 continues to use the same basic sensor. Possibly the reason the Z6III is delayed so long is that Nikon is developing a new generation sensor which will keep it ahead of its rivals - maybe an increase in resolution to 30MP and with the same performance as the 24MP sensor, or a global shutter like the newly announced Sony A9III.

The Z5, D750 and D600 use a non-backside illuminated (BSI) sensor and the D780, Z6, Z6 II and Zf use a BSI sensor. These have different designs, manufacturing techniques, DR characteristics at different ISO ranges, and also different rolling-shutter performance (the BSI sensor gives faster read times and better high ISO performance while the non-BSI is slightly better at base ISO).

Keeping the price low is important for the Z5 and Z6 families and a new sensor could increase the price significantly. A sensor in between 24 MP and 45 MP also risks moire with the high MTF Z lenses. 45 MP is more forgiving in that respect, and higher would be still better. If Nikon can improve sensor read times without a huge increase in the camera's cost then a new sensor in a Z6 III would be justified and give the camera a good chance of being successful. But they also should work on their subject-detection and the AF coupled to it; it should focus on a subject and stick to it even when the face is turned away momentarily, as now it tends to forget and slip onto other subjects when that happens.

I think Nikon is delaying the Z6 III because they want to give the Z8 time to sell. Shipments were delayed because of the recalls. They put out the Zf because the user interface differs from the Sony and Canon and gives some differentiation.

MILLIREHM

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Whether the rebate does indicate or not, a Z6 III is overdue (as already mentioned above)
The main deficiency of the Z6(II) is not the sensor but the AF speed and accuracy and subject recognition. I then have chosen the Z6 over the Z7 because I thought its 24MP is more suitable for use with old manual lenses and it offers advantages for High ISO so I see no need for more megapixel.
A Z6III should have change Z6 lines horrible user interface to be more Z8-like, but I like the size of the Z6 and the way it feels in my hand.

What I'd doubt is, whether a Z7 III (and yet another 45 MP camera - there are already three) does make any sense (now that the rumors of Z8 having 60 MP have proved to be false)

Sony announced a global shutter and there will be a Canon EOS R1 with rumors also assigning global shutter capability. So Nikon will be forced to react. But I am 100% sure that a Z6III would NOT be the first Nikon offering global shutter feature. Probably it will come in a Z9II (which will be needed as a reaction to R1 somehow) but I would not expect that before the end of the year 2024 or even more likely not before 2025
Wolfgang Rehm

Ilkka Nissilä

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Whether the rebate does indicate or not, a Z6 III is overdue (as already mentioned above)
The main deficiency of the Z6(II) is not the sensor but the AF speed and accuracy and subject recognition. I then have chosen the Z6 over the Z7 because I thought its 24MP is more suitable for use with old manual lenses and it offers advantages for High ISO so I see no need for more megapixel.
A Z6III should have change Z6 lines horrible user interface to be more Z8-like, but I like the size of the Z6 and the way it feels in my hand.

I agree they need to work on the algorithms. The Zf already can do very well in autofocusing on people subjects and porting the bird and animal code from the Z9 should be straightforward. The Zf is of the same price class as a Z6 III would likely be. The brass dials etc. and forced thin chassis probably lead to higher costs and a Z6 III with Zf internals might cost a few hundred euros less than the Zf, if they use the same sensor. If there is a new sensor then the Z6 III might cost a few hundred more than the Zf.

How would you change the Z6's user interface? To me it's not that different from the other cameras in the Z line. I think what would be good to have is one more function button and more customization ability (some of which the Zf already has). I think the smallish body size probably is favoured by many and there is not infinite space for a lot more physical controls. Although adjusting settings is a bit clumsy on the Z6 II, due to many things forcing a menu dive and there are multiple menus (main menu system, My Menu, and i menu, plus the info screen; very complex).

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What I'd doubt is, whether a Z7 III (and yet another 45 MP camera - there are already three) does make any sense (now that the rumors of Z8 having 60 MP have proved to be false)

The Z7 chassis is smaller and lighter than that of the Z8 or Z9, and there is a bit more dynamic range due to the slower read time of the sensor. I think what the Z7 III could get is a bump in resolution, hopefully at least 2x the pixel count of the current version so it'll be a noticeable difference and people will turn heads. Of course one can question what is the benefit of higher resolution when people post images on FullHD-res instagram and view it as a few degrees of their visual field. But then there are those who print large and want to crop as well. I think a Z7 III with 100 MP would turn some heads of current medium format users, and if Nikon launch it with a set of PC Z Nikkors, there would be some novelty with those as well. Make them resolve 100 MP cleanly. ;-)

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Sony announced a global shutter and there will be a Canon EOS R1 with rumors also assigning global shutter capability. So Nikon will be forced to react. But I am 100% sure that a Z6III would NOT be the first Nikon offering global shutter feature. Probably it will come in a Z9II (which will be needed as a reaction to R1 somehow) but I would not expect that before the end of the year 2024 or even more likely not before 2025

There are certainly a lot of rumour site posts but I think they're more like wishes that people express rather than fact-based. They do a really poor checking of facts if they do any checking at all.

Canon uses dual pixel AF and it means they need two photosites for each image pixel. If they want to compete for the high resolution high speed market, they need to put at least 45 or 50 MP into the R1. In practice then they need a 90 or 100 million photosite sensor with simultaneous read of the whole image including AF data, if it is to have global shutter. I just don't see this as realistic. Sony's GS camera only does 24 MP, not 90 or 100 MP. Is Canon so far ahead in sensor technology that they can read four times the amount of data simultaneously?

In my opinion global shutter has some value in photojournalism, video and related fields but since the image quality is likely to be somewhat inferior (reportedly Sony GS for industrial applications has more than twice the read noise, 1/2.4x the full well capacity per area compared to rolling shutter sensors by the same manufacturer) and cost is high, I don't see them becoming all common as general purpose cameras. The bird people will want higher resolution, and sports photographers have to submit their images quickly so they can't spend all eternity in picking the best frame out of a hundred thousand. Landscapes want higher image quality than either stacked or GS sensors can give.

Bruno Schroder

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It's time for a 40MP DX in a Z8 form factor.
Bruno Schröder

MILLIREHM

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How would you change the Z6's user interface? To me it's not that different from the other cameras in the Z line. I think what would be good to have is one more function button and more customization ability (some of which the Zf already has). I think the smallish body size probably is favoured by many and there is not infinite space for a lot more physical controls. Although adjusting settings is a bit clumsy on the Z6 II, due to many things forcing a menu dive and there are multiple menus (main menu system, My Menu, and i menu, plus the info screen; very complex).
I am also favouring the smallish body of the Z6 an would not want Nikon to change that
What I would change is:
1. Skip the U1, U2, U3 functions (especially when the menu does not allow to adjust the PSAM assignment later) there are too many unoverviewable settings affected by these three options that makes them unoverviewable to customize
2. Add four custom settings banks and recall shooting functions instead
3. Skip the PSAM wheel on the left as a whole and add the usual 3-4 buttons for MODE, exposure measurement options, release mode!!!, ...; and make these buttons configurable like the D6 and theZ9 (with the latest firmware upgrade)
4. turn the current (imho completely misplaced) release mode button into another Fn button

Thats it button- and wheelwise and thats not much I demand for

then
5. extend the configurability options for the buttons
6. I am seeing the Info Menu as an additional and optional quick access option. I want nothing to be in there that is not contained as well in the menu settings (and thus can't be added to the MY MENU list)

done
 

The Z7 chassis is smaller and lighter than that of the Z8 or Z9, and there is a bit more dynamic range due to the slower read time of the sensor. I think what the Z7 III could get is a bump in resolution, hopefully at least 2x the pixel count of the current version so it'll be a noticeable difference and people will turn heads. Of course one can question what is the benefit of higher resolution when people post images on FullHD-res instagram and view it as a few degrees of their visual field. But then there are those who print large and want to crop as well. I think a Z7 III with 100 MP would turn some heads of current medium format users, and if Nikon launch it with a set of PC Z Nikkors, there would be some novelty with those as well. Make them resolve 100 MP cleanly. ;-)
I also see room for a  slower high resolution high dynamic range camera, although I would not assume that Nikon will more than double the pixel number to 100 MP
What irritates me a bit is that I see the Z8 to Z9 relationship like the D700/D3 was, a Z7III would in this case be something like the D8xx series (which was ranked higher than the D700 was in the DSLR family)
But maybe we need to rethink traditional rankings
Wolfgang Rehm

dko22

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I don't quite agree; the II version included the wide-area L with subject detection for autofocus and I found this to be quintessential in getting the focusing system to focus on human subjects' eyes without being distracted by other potential subjects across the image area (human or otherwise; limiting the area to the desired subject helped me greatly). In the first model of the Z6 series, the only way to use eye AF was to use auto area which to me was not usable in practice. The Z6 II is quite reliable for event and portrait photography, with the exception of fast-approaching subjects. For those, Expeed 7 was needed to get a high percentage of focus keepers, as shown by the Z9/Z8 and also recently the Zf.

those are fair points -- I didn't find the change in specs enough for me to consider upgrading, however if you've really found the focus system significantly better on focussing on human subjects, then that is indeed something as I don't find my original Z6 that reliable in that department, though for most things, single AF is pretty good.

pluton

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I'd like to see the ability to lock the focus point in the center (or any position) AND the ability to to turn off all focus points. My D3 could have an "empty" finder, and I've missed it ever since. It's extremely annoying when the the focus point drifts off center (me accidentally pushing the unlockable 4-way control due to the camera's small body and me having normal adult size hands) and then going to use the focus zoom feature, and it zooms into some far corner of the view.
My issue could be seen as the inevitable consequence of having a small camera body, just like the compromises made on the small Fuji XE1/XE-2 bodies that I gladly don't use much anymore..
Keith B., Santa Monica, CA, USA

Birna Rørslett

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There are other NG member complaining sbout the same "feature" .....

A work-around-- sort of -- is assigning the centre of the 4-way pad as a reset control. Thus a quick push and you have thre focus point centered  in the frame again.

MILLIREHM

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There are other NG member complaining sbout the same "feature" .....

A work-around-- sort of -- is assigning the centre of the 4-way pad as a reset control. Thus a quick push and you have thre focus point centered  in the frame again.

I got touched by this "feature" too, and it is the same with all Z cameras, Birna has shown a work around to overcome this

On the other hand, whereas SLR cameras had a locking lever I occasionally found this accidentially activated and got some delay until I realized what has happened
Wolfgang Rehm