Author Topic: Thank You All, for Upgrading  (Read 1653 times)

Steven Paulsen

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Thank You All, for Upgrading
« on: June 14, 2023, 04:01:53 »

When the D850 was released I pounced on someone's discarded low mileage D800. Good camera. I learned a lot.
I'm older and do not foresee myself a Z system user. (No urge to buy the same thing over and over again.)


I discovered the D5. Available light shooting/iso performance, it blows the Df out of the water. Pictures have a distinct wondeful look, then lightroom destroys it. A gentleman in his 70's (older than me) auctioned it "Buy it Now", "like new/6.5k shots, D5-b, compact flash version. (I believe he purchased a Z9.) No hiccups if I shoot raw only to both cards.


The camera takes better pictures without me. Playing with video, I left it on Program and shot stills. Excellent rear display. (got to make a drop down mirror for waist level shots.) It is near impossible to take a bad picture with this thing.


Any help, advise or comments ae appreciated.


Mr. and Ms. R; Please ask Nikon to fix the crop in 4K video.

Wannabebetter

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Re: Thank You All, for Upgrading
« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2023, 09:36:38 »
I, too, have picked up some extraordinary bargains on the used market, thanks to fickle, amateur, photographs and other so-called "early adopters" with more money then actual need or talent. Look, I'm not knocking them. It's a food-chain and some animals are sloppy eaters leaving plenty behind, for scavengers such as I. Truth be known, I'd rather buy new, what I want, when I want it, then wait for some rich, New Jersey dentist to get bored with last year's toys. But when I can, or must, wait I do - and patiently, unless a work-load necessitates otherwise. (I'm a school boy again and botany labs make upping my macro/micro skills a decided advantage.) Incredible as it is, even to my own sensibilities, I think I'd opt for a used Z8 at this juncture over a similarly priced, used, D850. And I know, too, part of my rationale is predicated on not wanting to be left behind, in some sense. (Or so says the boy cuddling his Nikon F and lamenting the parade passing him by no matter how fast he runs.) All said, there's a lot of Z-stuff being unloaded and a Z5 would suit me fine... but I wouldn't pass on a Z50 to mount on my microscope or some legacy pancake lens.

MFloyd

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Re: Thank You All, for Upgrading
« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2023, 09:49:48 »



I discovered the D5. Available light shooting/iso performance, it blows the Df out of the water. Pictures have a distinct wondeful look, then lightroom destroys it. A gentleman in his 70's (older than me) auctioned it "Buy it Now", "like new/6.5k shots, D5-b, compact flash version. (I believe he purchased a Z9.) No hiccups if I shoot raw only to both cards.




Any help, advise or comments ae appreciated.



May be it’s you who are destroying pictures, not Lr ? ???
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Steven Paulsen

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Re: Thank You All, for Upgrading
« Reply #3 on: July 19, 2023, 22:02:14 »
May be it’s you who are destroying pictures, not Lr ? ???


When pics are 1st loaded they look fine. I click to open one or all, they turn drab. Nikon support asked me to try NX Studio. I did and that problem went away. I am not renting a current cloud based version of Lightroom. I use LR, V6.14, which surprises me that Df and D5 raw are even covered.


For a 20mp camera, the compressed raw files from the D5 are huge, like over 30mb. I don't think adobe reverse engineered an old version of LR.

Ian Watson

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Re: Thank You All, for Upgrading
« Reply #4 on: July 19, 2023, 23:47:09 »
It could be that the thumbnails start by using the JPEG embedded in the raw files. Then when you want a larger view, Lightroom renders the view using the default colour profile; probably Adobe Standard. Try heading to the Develop module and changing it to Camera Standard. If that works then you could either create a preset and apply it on import, or alter the preferences to have Lightroom respect the camera's set colour profile.

NX Studio works because it applies Nikon's profiles.

Steven Paulsen

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Re: Thank You All, for Upgrading
« Reply #5 on: July 20, 2023, 00:57:01 »
Ian,
I think you already know what I am experiencing. Lightroom does not display the embedded jpeg profile produced for the camera's raw files.


I phoned Nikon support and asked, "Why do my shots look wonderful on the rear display but look bad after Lightroom's import?


It was explained that my version of LR does not have access to Nikon's "secret sauce." She said NX Studio does. What you see on the camera's display is what you get on the computer display.
She was 100%, correct.

<chuckle>
A very long time ago, on another photo forum, I pointed out Apple's iPhoto and Aperture software turns your photo library into ONE PROPRIETARY CHUNK, and I assume they lost some market share. To this day, Apple will not upgrade, nor supply a more modern version of iPhoto (that was included in 2011/OS 10.6, no matter what later OS is used.)


For some reason, I no longer use apple computers.

Ian Watson

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Re: Thank You All, for Upgrading
« Reply #6 on: July 20, 2023, 03:29:18 »
Steven,

I remember always having to help my photographs along in Lightroom. Extra contrast and vibrance were the norm. For a while I clung to version 6.14 but eventually went to the subscription. That brought steady improvements. Then there was an 18-month fling with Capture One. So I cannot put my finger exactly on when I stopped having to fight it. However, at some point they stopped burying colour profiles at the bottom of the column of adjustments in the Develop module and put them right above colour temperature, where they would be most useful. Even then it was a little while before I tinkered with them.

Adobe defaults to one of their own profiles. It used to be Adobe Standard but has now changed to Adobe Colour. Nobody but Nikon has access to the "secret sauce" but Adobe does its best to recreate it. The label will be Camera X, depending on whether you prefer Standard, Neutral, etc. I'm very happy with Adobe's version of Camera Standard for my Z6.

Of course, if NX Studio does what you need then there is no point in worrying about it  8)

I like Apple and am willing to wrangle their devices. Let's not argue or Birna might make us both move to Linux  ;D

RobOK

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Re: Thank You All, for Upgrading
« Reply #7 on: July 20, 2023, 22:03:20 »
When you import in Lr you briefly see the JPEG preview. It is stored embedded in the RAW I believe. This is the JPG produced with your in camera settings. Then Lr renders the RAW w/o the settings. There are a few ways around this in Lr. I have a couple of general purpose Develop Presets that I apply on import so I never see the plain RAW files. Someone else mentioned you can select all an pick an Adobe Camera setting. I have not used NX Studio much but just wanted you to know many Nikon shooters use Lightroom/Photoshop/ACR to develop RAWs.

MFloyd

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Re: Thank You All, for Upgrading
« Reply #8 on: July 20, 2023, 22:27:01 »

When pics are 1st loaded they look fine. I click to open one or all, they turn drab. Nikon support asked me to try NX Studio. I did and that problem went away. I am not renting a current cloud based version of Lightroom. I use LR, V6.14, which surprises me that Df and D5 raw are even covered.


For a 20mp camera, the compressed raw files from the D5 are huge, like over 30mb. I don't think adobe reverse engineered an old version of LR.

I’m afraid you have a lack of understanding how Lr works. There are plenty of tutorials around to enhance your knowledge.

Renting is the current economical model towards most of the software manufacturers trend - be it disguised or not. So be it; otherwise there is a lot of freeware around. I’m more than willing to pay €10 / month for the latest version of Lr & Ps.

« Huge files » ? What is actual the HDD storage cost of a 50MB file ? Nothing.
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golunvolo

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Re: Thank You All, for Upgrading
« Reply #9 on: July 20, 2023, 23:28:35 »
When the D850 was released I pounced on someone's discarded low mileage D800. Good camera. I learned a lot.
I'm older and do not foresee myself a Z system user. (No urge to buy the same thing over and over again.)


I discovered the D5. Available light shooting/iso performance, it blows the Df out of the water. Pictures have a distinct wondeful look, then lightroom destroys it. A gentleman in his 70's (older than me) auctioned it "Buy it Now", "like new/6.5k shots, D5-b, compact flash version. (I believe he purchased a Z9.) No hiccups if I shoot raw only to both cards.


The camera takes better pictures without me. Playing with video, I left it on Program and shot stills. Excellent rear display. (got to make a drop down mirror for waist level shots.) It is near impossible to take a bad picture with this thing.


Any help, advise or comments ae appreciated.


Mr. and Ms. R; Please ask Nikon to fix the crop in 4K video.

  I read the compact flash is no problem for you, if you ever find it limiting to record video at 4k, in can be replaced with the xqd or you can use an external recorder (second hand atomos ninja V is cheaper than some cards)
  The D5 is very, very capable. You said "I left it on Program" and it is worth it to explore other modes. Not sure if you also use the full auto af (works wonders) but it is also worth exploring.
   Are you shouting lossless compress? My files average 23-25 mb.
  Files do have a wonderful look. Your software of choice will have an impact on the final image but I have not experienced any destruction so far. Maybe import default is doing some funny things in the background, who knows, there are many variables.

  I'm still amazed at the speed and agility of this beast.
 I hope this helps

Steven Paulsen

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Re: Thank You All, for Upgrading
« Reply #10 on: July 20, 2023, 23:37:34 »
I understand what you are saying and agree. The big however is I have the most fun getting and confirming the shot. The fun is in the foreplay.


I am just a grumpy old guy who has learned to hate post processing.


The D5 does magic


. My only beef is the 1.5 crop for 4K video. (But a real video camera is actually, the ticket.) It is the first camera that I almost trust autofocus. I also got some sellable crops @ iso 40K. Currently, I am fine tuning 3D tracking af/eccentricity settings.


I have floppies of photoshop 2.1  that ran on a 68040, LC apple performa. <--------what the heck is that?
Post was quite fun back then.
The fun is in the foreplay.

David H. Hartman

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Re: Thank You All, for Upgrading
« Reply #11 on: July 21, 2023, 07:01:00 »
A very long time ago, on another photo forum, I pointed out Apple's iPhoto and Aperture software turns your photo library into ONE PROPRIETARY CHUNK, and I assume they lost some market share. To this day, Apple will not upgrade, nor supply a more modern version of iPhoto (that was included in 2011/OS 10.6, no matter what later OS is used.)

It's (the iPhoto library) some kind of container. I can't remember the correct name. It can be open by right clicking and displaying the contents. Then you can copy all the files inside the container into a standard folder. Depending on what was uploaded into the container you may find JPG(s) and if from Nikon cameras you may find NEF(s).

There is/was a utility for converting the iPhoto container to be compatible with Apple Photos. You may be able to download the utility from the Apple Store.

I rescued a friend's iPhoto library from an old MacBook and transferred them to a newer MacBook Pro 2012.

I'm going on memory here but there is a path to rescuing photos that were uploaded to iPhoto.

Dave
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pluton

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Default vs. Custom raw rendering
« Reply #12 on: July 21, 2023, 20:19:30 »
Everyone seems to agree that Nikon's default secret sauce for Nikon raw files is better than Adobe's simulation of Nikon's default sauce.
Some tout Capture One's default look as being excellent.
You know what's even better than Nikon's secret sauce?
Your own secret sauce.
In Adobe it's called User Develop Presets or just User Presets.
You can make one, or as many as you want, for different looks.
Create them, name them, save them, and then apply them at time of import.
Once I started using a calibrated Adobe RGB-capable monitor, I found that none of the default raw conversions from Nikon, Capture, or any of the raw converters are as pleasing to my eye as what I can create.
It does take time and a willingness to play.
Using a Color Checker and and the XRite/Calibrite camera calibration Lightroom plugin helps, IMO.
Keith B., Santa Monica, CA, USA

Steven Paulsen

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Re: Thank You All, for Upgrading
« Reply #13 on: July 22, 2023, 23:18:42 »
OK.
I made a few LR presets, and I'll see how it goes.

pluton

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Re: Thank You All, for Upgrading
« Reply #14 on: July 23, 2023, 07:13:29 »
You may find that you will want to occasionally revisit your presets for small adjustments.  Make a mental note when you see a color that the default conversion gets wrong. I didn't like the Adobe default rendering of primary red (too orangey) and a clear blue sky (too cyanish). I found a red car, clear blue sky, green grass and various tan and brown buildings in one scene. The photo of that scene got me started on modifying what in my eye were Adobe's most glaring "wrong" color renderings.  Good luck!
Keith B., Santa Monica, CA, USA