Author Topic: Windows 10?  (Read 1230 times)

benzen

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Windows 10?
« on: January 26, 2022, 13:31:24 »
Started messing with photography a couple of years ago but family and commitments stalled my intent and motivation. Giving it a go again but have a 12 year old Mac mini and a small monitor at work. My "home" computer is a Samsung Windows 7 with a terrible screen that is about 10 years old I hardly turn on.

Looking at the latest Macs even refurbished are minimum $900 which is more than I can afford. Windows variants can be purchased for sub $500 with a decent 1080 HD resolution. Suggestions on what exactly to look for editing and learning how to edit? I am hesitant on Windows 10 for the excessive bloat and content I will never use or even look at. I started with a D200 a while back and eventually gave that to my daughter. I picked up an old D700 with a 50mm lens a year ago but have yet to use it.

Ben

Birna Rørslett

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Re: Windows 10?
« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2022, 14:08:54 »
Windows 10 is here to stay -- at least until 2025. So you really have no choice unless you wish to splurge heavily for a Win11-capable machine, or another Mac.

However for the computer savy, a modern Linux can do almost the same and there are more or less free alternatives in terms of image processing software. Even some of the Windows-based  programs (PhotoNinja, for example) will work. Linux runs happily on less than state-of-the-art machines as well.

benzen

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Re: Windows 10?
« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2022, 15:27:46 »
Nothing savvy about my computer skills. The computer would only be used for storing photographs and editing. I can download Nikon NXD and View NX. Really need nothing else from the computer which is why I wanted to find something sub $500 and with as little "junk" as I can find.

Jan Anne

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Re: Windows 10?
« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2022, 15:54:46 »
Windows 10 is here to stay -- at least until 2025.
Windows has a 10 year support cycle, the regular 5 year maintenance support has already ended for Windows 10 in Oct 2020 and the current more limited extended support phase ends 5 years later in Oct 2025. In the last stage Microsoft will only provide security patches and no more new features or compatibility updates.
Cheers,
Jan Anne

Lars Hansen

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Re: Windows 10?
« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2022, 17:14:06 »
I know the question is about windows 10, but ... hardware wise: I have no idea what the prices are in your part of the world, but half a year ago I bought a small barebone computer, an Intel NUC, for my daily work and it it turned out to be a decent computer for photo editing as well. I believe it's based on laptop computer components.

Despite the computer's graphics aren't anything special, my Capture One Pro 20 photosoftware runs pretty nice, however my NUC's configuration is twice your budget (in Denmark) with an Intel I7 processor (6 cores), 500 GB SSD disk and 32 GB RAM (win 10) - less will probably be fine for your needs (I needed this setup for my work). I edit 16 mpix images but editing 24 mpix is not much slower. My NUC has 2 disk slots - it's flexible for adding/switching disk space and I'm going to add 1TB disk for music and photos. 

Maybe models with smaller processors are capable enough as well - or non-intel alternatives like ASUS. There are some trade offs with these computers because I guess they are just laptops without keyboard and screen and have limited or no hardware upgrade options. I also think the graphics shares/depends on the amount of RAM.  Maybe they are cheaper as refurbished compared to full-size computers for running windows.

Just a thought - recently there were a lot of writing about older hardware, and even more recent hardware, that's incompatible with win 11 requirements. My NUC is win 11 compatible but I think many older models aren't. 

Matthew Currie

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Re: Windows 10?
« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2022, 18:32:23 »
I find for my relatively minimal and non-intensive work (like processing the occasional image for web, making CD's for relatives, etc.) a Win 10 computer works all right.  I have a little Samsung Win 7 "netbook" that I use for traveling, and for the Nikon programs mentioned, it's dead, dead slow. To time the loading of a D7100 Raw file in Capture NX-D you'd do better with a calendar than with a clock.  Copying files is best done before you go off for dinner in hope it will be done when you get back. It works, but I only keep this computer going because it's very small and very rugged, unscathed after over ten years much of that traveling the world in a backpack, and it handlers file transfers and saves easily if slowly, and it's just fine for email.

By comparison, the same programs work reasonably well even on my bottom-line 3-core Win 10 laptop.  This one, a Dell, also has a pretty minimal display, but it's well ahead of the old Samsung.  I'm not a serious tweaker of subtle colors, and I can be fairly sure that an image that looks OK on this screen will look OK just about anywhere.

I think many people here do a lot of heavy-duty processing, and for that I'm sure such a rig would be a no-go.  But for the kind of thing the OP seems to be looking at, I think nearly any Win 10 computer now available would probably be a good step up, and at least usable with the software mentioned as well as other programs.   

I've used Linux too, and that has the advantage that you can put it on just about anything, and can even boot from an incorruptible DVD.  The open source programs like Darktable and Raw Therapee and Gimp (which also work well on Windows) are fine, but installing Windows software, though theoretically possible, can be a pain, and I had poor success.

benzen

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Re: Windows 10?
« Reply #6 on: January 26, 2022, 19:03:57 »
Appreciate the responses thus far. As mentioned....I am not computer savvy nor am I unfamiliar particularly in a world that cannot function without them. However, I am no fan of Windows and am indifferent to Apple. I have used both platforms though I think the Samsung Win 7 laptop computer I have at home would be horrible to view photographs. I may just use the Mac mini I have at work with a reasonable Samsung older 21" monitor to start.

Matthew, I suspect you are right. For my limited needs, just about any Windows 10 computer will serve my purpose. I would be looking at laptops for mobility and use at home. The Macs are just too expensive even refurbished. They are cleaner in that there is much less manure baked into the device.

JJChan

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Re: Windows 10?
« Reply #7 on: January 26, 2022, 22:09:27 »
The world is not cheap and technology costs are a big part of that.
There are some must haves if you buy any computer today and compromises will have to be made eg longevity with build quality, smaller batteries, replaceable parts, uncomfortable keyboards, USB ports

For windows 10, I think the minimum is 8Gb ram, SSD and IPS screen. Quick google search: https://techmoguide.com/best-budget-laptops-with-ips-display/

Good luck!

Wannabebetter

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Re: Windows 10?
« Reply #8 on: March 30, 2022, 23:26:14 »
Windows 10 is here to stay -- at least until 2025. So you really have no choice unless you wish to splurge heavily for a Win11-capable machine, or another Mac.

However for the computer savy, a modern Linux can do almost the same and there are more or less free alternatives in terms of image processing software. Even some of the Windows-based  programs (PhotoNinja, for example) will work. Linux runs happily on less than state-of-the-art machines as well.

If you're the hands-on sort, adept at using Linux and well versed in all things Windows, you can load Windows 11 on most any machine currently running Windows 10 without issue, and to the inclusion of those machines not "officially" supported or currently whitelisted by Microsoft. In fact, if you dig around enough, you'll find the page where Microsoft admits as much - in fact providing the proper ISO/image to download (for free) as well as all the usual admonishments and security warnings etc. (As stated: if you're the Linux sort you can do all the security patchwork yourself.) Presently, I can't think of any practical reason or need to upgrade my six year old Lenovo workstation - like they say, if it ain't broken - but could see a day past 2025 when Windows 11 might afford an aging i7 quad-core a few more years use. Who knows?

Incidentally, I rescued a nine year old Dell Inspiron i5 from a dumpster one rainy night a few weeks back, which took to Windows 10 Home without issue (it had a legal license on file), and is currently seeing service as a digital jukebox and wide screen Zoom conferencing platform, tethered to a family room TV. And the slide shows! My crap, never looked so much like - well - crap. Though (again) not officially supported I plan on loading Windows 11 and use this machine as something of a test platform. So long as I handle all the security fixes myself, in theory, all should go well. The 8 gigs of RAM and 1 terabyte HDD, which I scrubbed until it bled, made this a great salvage and destined for a needful friend.

Chris Betson

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Re: Windows 10?
« Reply #9 on: March 31, 2022, 00:11:34 »
Why would anyone want a Windoze machine? The same hardware loaded with Ubuntu (Linux) will run faster, load faster and you will not be annoyed by waiting for the OS updating every time you start.

There are many similar if not better software packages, Shotwell for image store and GIMP for photo editing. Long term support versions last 4 years with the option to update every 6 months if you want to.

David H. Hartman

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Re: Windows 10?
« Reply #10 on: March 31, 2022, 03:36:49 »
Why would anyone want a Windoze machine? The same hardware loaded with Ubuntu (Linux) will run faster, load faster and you will not be annoyed by waiting for the OS updating every time you start.

There are many similar if not better software packages, Shotwell for image store and GIMP for photo editing. Long term support versions last 4 years with the option to update every 6 months if you want to.

I have an old version of Photoshop that runs fine on Windows 7 and 10 and will not run under Linux. I've tried GIMP and found it to be no replacement for Photoshop.

Linux for me is too much of a hackers OS. I paid my dues with Windows NT v3.4 (Neanderthal Technology) and got on fine with the help of a Bible size administrator's manual. I've gotten soft and prefer Windows 7 or when tweaked a bit Windows 10. I've gotten as far as macOS High Sierra and that's fine too. At this time Linux won't run the software I need.

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Birna Rørslett

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Re: Windows 10?
« Reply #11 on: March 31, 2022, 13:34:59 »
Wine has be be improved in order for many Windows programs to run without issues in Linux. I managed to install Photoshop however it crashes so frequently it is unusable in practice. Sometimes PS only loads then bombs out immediately.

PhotoNinja and some other photo software do run smoothly in Linux though. My big Linux boxes host virtual machines with tweaked Windows systems. This works very well.

Like many others I'm not a big fan of Win10 and the mess of getting rid of all the bloatware it brings with it.  Some of the updates bring back stuff I actively removed. When will Microsoft understand not everyone requires gaming software or uses their computer just for watching videos?

For my main work station I reverted back to Win7 to avoid the troubles Win10 introduced.

paul hofseth

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Re: Windows 10?
« Reply #12 on: April 07, 2022, 15:04:31 »
I wonder what US republicans  (who hate being dictated to) make of W10´s lack of liberties.

Disregarding the possibility of digging into "Regedit", there are absolutely no methods to get rid of some "features" consuming machine resources. Most annoying, even if they only use small shares. Also W-10 keeps bothering one when installing non-Microsoft programs. A sensible function if users are ignorant, otherwise an unnnecessary hurdle.

So if you are reasonably naive, like being bossed around, and dislike free software (which still can be installed), do not hesistate: the program is much stabler than it used to be and the company only needs to revise it now and then (to correct its own errors, and launch potentially income generating subroutines)

p.

Hugh_3170

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Re: Windows 10?
« Reply #13 on: April 07, 2022, 17:24:54 »
As a matter of interest Birna, what dialect or dialects of Linux do you run?  Just the one or separate dialects for different purposed machines?

I am considering setting up a one of my older but still good (i.e. high spec'ced) PCs as a LINUX machine for a heavy computational project.

TIA.


Wine has be be improved in order for many Windows programs to run without issues in Linux. I managed to install Photoshop however it crashes so frequently it is unusable in practice. Sometimes PS only loads then bombs out immediately.

PhotoNinja and some other photo software do run smoothly in Linux though. My big Linux boxes host virtual machines with tweaked Windows systems. This works very well.

Like many others I'm not a big fan of Win10 and the mess of getting rid of all the bloatware it brings with it.  Some of the updates bring back stuff I actively removed. When will Microsoft understand not everyone requires gaming software or uses their computer just for watching videos?

For my main work station I reverted back to Win7 to avoid the troubles Win10 introduced.
Hugh Gunn

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Re: Windows 10?
« Reply #14 on: April 07, 2022, 17:59:34 »
Linux Mint for smaller laptops (for travelling etc.), set up with browser, audio, and full office software. Mint is very slick and easy to use, even for die-hard Windows users.

Ubuntu (server eds.) for the heavy stuff. I tried 'bare-metal' VMWare ESXi,  but found it more troublesome than running my virtual machines atop a robust standard Linux system. The operational speed of the VMs is in general excellent.