Author Topic: New rumoured Sony BSI Sensor for M43 cameras  (Read 1085 times)

Hugh_3170

  • NG Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1801
  • Back in Melbourne!
New rumoured Sony BSI Sensor for M43 cameras
« on: December 26, 2021, 11:01:58 »
 I have spotted this link to a rumoured 21Mpx BSI sensor from Sony for M43 cameras:

 

https://silentpeakphoto.com/gear/cameras/camera-news/new-micro-four-thirds-sensor-revealed/#conclusionad

 

Certainly BSI sensors have taken a while to reach the M43 format, so let us hope that this rumour is for real.

 

Maybe we might see some of the capabilities of a Nikon Z9 in a smaller format and lighter camera?  Fingers crossed!
Hugh Gunn

BruceSD

  • Confirmed Bokeholic
  • NG Member
  • *
  • Posts: 136
  • I'm here to learn from the best
    • The F/2 Guru
Re: New rumoured Sony BSI Sensor for M43 cameras
« Reply #1 on: December 27, 2021, 20:22:23 »
.
It's about time.

BSI is so 2017.  These days, the big camera companies are working on "Stacked Sensors", and many anticipate future releases by most of the major players to feature stacked sensors.

Why doesn't Pany and Oly put stacked sensors in their next mft bodies?   Or maybe they plan to give the Aps-c and full frame players another 5-year head start!  The next sensor in mft bodies will make or break the format, so they need to stretch and at least match what the big boys are offering in their anticipated newer models.

Hugh_3170

  • NG Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1801
  • Back in Melbourne!
Re: New rumoured Sony BSI Sensor for M43 cameras
« Reply #2 on: December 28, 2021, 06:10:53 »
Yes, that is also what I believe.

............................................................

 The next sensor in mft bodies will make or break the format, so they need to stretch and at least match what the big boys are offering in their anticipated newer models.

Hugh Gunn

chambeshi

  • Guest
Re: New rumoured Sony BSI Sensor for M43 cameras
« Reply #3 on: December 28, 2021, 16:47:59 »
Fuji XT-30 got its BSI sensor circa 2019, in fact earlier considering R&D etc

There's this recent rumour of a Stacked APC sensor https://petapixel.com/2021/09/02/fujifilms-first-stacked-back-illuminated-x-trans-sensor-coming-in-2022/

Macro_Cosmos

  • NG Member
  • *
  • Posts: 327
    • Flickr
Re: New rumoured Sony BSI Sensor for M43 cameras
« Reply #4 on: January 19, 2022, 23:19:58 »
Somewhat related, the newest sensor capable in resolving photons is a stacked BSI sensor.
https://www.eetasia.com/meet-the-first-quantum-image-sensor/
0.3e- read noise, "detecting every photon" is an exaggerated (well, false) claim but >90% is already exceptional.

To put this into perspective, a sensor with 0.5e-rms read noise, which is a less than double of 0.3 will misclassify ~32% photons, making it incapable of photon number resolution.

Calculations are a bit more involved, we can assume photoelectron distribution is Poisson, and the statistical uncertainty (read noise!) is Gaussian. 
To calculate the amount of photons resolved, one would use the  Gaussian cumulative probability function to find the area under the curve, which is done through integrating [-e-rms, +e-rms] and then subtracting the value from 1.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normal_distribution Under "CDF".
A read noise of 0 is needed to resolve every photon, which is impossible.  I suppose semantics is involved, detecting a photon is a little different to being able to detect and resolve it.

There is one commercially available camera that does this: https://www.hamamatsu.com/jp/en/product/cameras/qcmos-cameras/index.html
Pretty much a "M 3/4" sized sensor.
Photomicrography gallery: Instagram
Blog: Diatoms Australia
Andor Zyla 5.5 sCMOS | Hamamatsu ORCA-Flash V2 | Nikon Z6 | Olympus Microscope

chambeshi

  • Guest
Re: New rumoured Sony BSI Sensor for M43 cameras
« Reply #5 on: February 15, 2022, 19:41:05 »
It is good to see a new bloodline from Olympus. A 4/3 stacked sensor is in the Olympus OM-1 from the new company, with Interesting specs. It is targeted at outdoor photographic genres, especially wildlife

link to the launch video: https://youtu.be/ptm04Fogkf0

https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/om-system-om-1-initial-review

Hugh_3170

  • NG Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1801
  • Back in Melbourne!
Re: New rumoured Sony BSI Sensor for M43 cameras
« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2022, 05:17:13 »
Yes, the OM-1 and its new sensor will breath new life into the M43 format.  Panasonic are rumoured to also release a new M43 camera and sensor at the end of the month. 

It is good to see a new bloodline from Olympus. A 4/3 stacked sensor is in the Olympus OM-1 from the new company, with Interesting specs. It is targeted at outdoor photographic genres, especially wildlife

link to the launch video: https://youtu.be/ptm04Fogkf0

https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/om-system-om-1-initial-review
Hugh Gunn

Ilkka Nissilä

  • NG Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1566
  • You ARE NikonGear
Re: New rumoured Sony BSI Sensor for M43 cameras
« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2022, 12:50:16 »
I like it that OM are using cross-type phase-detection sensors in mirrorless cameras, which e.g. Nikon aren't. It's a major source of unreliability in my experience when one has to depend on the subject having vertical lines and horizontal lines are not working for the purposes of phase-detect AF, as if it happens that the subject is a bit unclear in terms of detail, and the background has vertical lines, it's very likely that the camera focuses on the background features instead of the subject, and when this happens, it can be hard to fight it.

The D6 on the DSLR side has all-cross-type sensors which is nice. I'd like to see Nikon bring quad pixel or some other approach to implementing cross-type sensors into some Z mirrorless models as well.  The drawback of quad pixel is that it requires four photodiodes per one image pixel which led to a slightly longer than typical sensor read speed compared to other BSI stacked sensors such as the one in the Z9. This means there may be a bit more rolling shutter.

I think this approach that OM is taking should improve the attractiveness of their kit to bird photographers, in particular. The ability to pre-capture shots prior to full shutter button press is also invaluable and I imagine it'll be used to catch some otherwise difficult moments.

Hugh_3170

  • NG Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1801
  • Back in Melbourne!
Re: New rumoured Sony BSI Sensor for M43 cameras
« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2022, 02:26:12 »
The teaser to the new Panasonic GH6 M43 format camera that is to be announced on the 22nd February 2022:

https://www.dpreview.com/news/8164565642/panasonic-confirms-the-gh6-will-be-released-via-livestream-on-february-22
Hugh Gunn

Akira

  • Homo jezoensis
  • NG Supporter
  • **
  • Posts: 11572
  • Tokyo, Japan
Re: New rumoured Sony BSI Sensor for M43 cameras
« Reply #9 on: February 17, 2022, 03:32:50 »
Apparently, Panasonic uses their own 25MP sensor for GH6 and stick to the DFD AF system.

https://www.43rumors.com/full-panasonic-gh6-specs-and-new-images-leaked/
"The eye is blind if the mind is absent." - Confucius

"Limitation is inspiration." - Akira

Hugh_3170

  • NG Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1801
  • Back in Melbourne!
Re: New rumoured Sony BSI Sensor for M43 cameras
« Reply #10 on: February 17, 2022, 04:25:51 »
Good that there seems to be multiple sensor suppliers emerging  for not only M43 format cameras but for other sensor formats as well, e.g. Tower/Intel, the Belgium maker of the new Leica M11 sensor, Panasonic, and of course Sony.  Sony has already swallowed up the Toshiba and I think the Aptina sensor businesses and others, so no doubt further rationalisation via takeovers and mergers of these businesses will continue.

Hopefully the emerging players in this field will herald new innovations in the sensor field, especially as Nikon has made the break away from mechanical shutters in its Z9 in favour of electronic alternatives.

Apparently, Panasonic uses their own 25MP sensor for GH6 and stick to the DFD AF system.

https://www.43rumors.com/full-panasonic-gh6-specs-and-new-images-leaked/
Hugh Gunn

Hugh_3170

  • NG Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1801
  • Back in Melbourne!
Re: New rumoured Sony BSI Sensor for M43 cameras
« Reply #11 on: February 17, 2022, 04:33:27 »
The OM Systems public relations team seems to have gone all out in respect of promoting its new OM-1.

February 24-25: https://omds.idloom.events/om-system-day?utm_source=&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=


Hugh Gunn

Akira

  • Homo jezoensis
  • NG Supporter
  • **
  • Posts: 11572
  • Tokyo, Japan
Re: New rumoured Sony BSI Sensor for M43 cameras
« Reply #12 on: February 17, 2022, 04:45:16 »
Good that there seems to be multiple sensor suppliers emerging  for not only M43 format cameras but for other sensor formats as well, e.g. Tower/Intel, the Belgium maker of the new Leica M11 sensor, Panasonic, and of course Sony.  Sony has already swallowed up the Toshiba and I think the Aptina sensor businesses and others, so no doubt further rationalisation via takeovers and mergers of these businesses will continue.

Hopefully the emerging players in this field will herald new innovations in the sensor field, especially as Nikon has made the break away from mechanical shutters in its Z9 in favour of electronic alternatives.

I would suspect that the camera manufacturers are trying to get rid of of the monoculture environment of the sensor resource.  Canon has long been using their proprietary sensors and their recently filed patent looks very efficient in terms of the AF.

SIGMA has also got rid of the mechanical shutter on fp released in 2019.  Other manufacturers should follow the trend sooner or later.  The last remaining mechanical part seems to be the IBIS but, it could take some challenges for the full-size cameras, because the sensor should be larger than the image format to implement the electronic IBIS.
"The eye is blind if the mind is absent." - Confucius

"Limitation is inspiration." - Akira