Author Topic: 1001 night 78, 48/2.8P  (Read 665 times)

richardHaw

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Ilkka Nissilä

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Re: 1001 night 78, 48/2.8P
« Reply #1 on: June 29, 2021, 15:57:15 »
45mm. This is one lens I always desired to have but couldn't justify the cost at the time, and then it became unavailable new.  :/ I am starting to regret those decisions ...

Birna Rørslett

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Re: 1001 night 78, 48/2.8P
« Reply #2 on: June 29, 2021, 17:07:10 »
The first sample of the 45P I purchased was in silver livery, wich frankly I didn't feel very attractive. No wonder with such a dimutive lens it quickly got lost. I then went to Nikon Norway and said they had sold me a lens so small it disappears by itself, so please give me another at 50% discount. They obviously were taken by surprise and concurred on the deal.  I got my second sample, which was black, and kept a strict watch out for it afterwards. I still have the lens in my possession.

Ilkka Nissilä

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Re: 1001 night 78, 48/2.8P
« Reply #3 on: June 29, 2021, 17:57:42 »
The first sample of the 45P I purchased was in silver livery, wich frankly I didn't feel very attractive. No wonder with such a dimutive lens it quickly got lost. I then went to Nikon Norway and said they had sold me a lens so small it disappears by itself, so please give me another at 50% discount. They obviously were taken by surprise and concurred on the deal.  I got my second sample, which was black, and kept a strict watch out for it afterwards. I still have the lens in my possession.

Good job there!

The black 45 mm P is available second hand for £995 (UK pounds) at Grays of Westminster. A thousand quid! I love that store but they sure know their pricing of rare items.

David H. Hartman

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Re: 1001 night 78, 48/2.8P
« Reply #4 on: June 29, 2021, 18:08:58 »
The Nikon FM3A was not a successor to the FM2. A camera repairman friend opened one and told me it was an Nikon FE2 (almost identical) with a few extra buttons and the hybrid shutter. All good but the name was a marketing decision and not at all indicative of the lineage of the camera. Our major concern was was the quality of interior components of the FM3a cheapened as Nikon had been cheapening components of lenses. The quality of the FM3a was the same as that of the FE2 on which it was built. My friend told me I should sell my FE2(s) and buy a couple of FM3a(s).

The 45mm f/2.8P Nikkor never interested me. It was too small for the hands to grip and too expensive. If it had been a bit larger and if it had been priced to sell in volume rather than be promoted as a boutique lens I might have been interested. By contrast the Japan only small version of the 50mm f/1.8 AIS Nikkor would have found a place in on one of my Nikon FE2(s) if it had been offered in the US.

I subscribe to "Form Follows Function" and the 45mm f/2.8P fails here for me. Also the chromed plastic doesn't cut it for me. I was taught "Truth in materials." If it's plastic it should look like plastic not wood or metal. This was the instructions of a architect friend of my father's and a teacher of art and design classes I took. 

Regarding the short production life of the 45mm f/2.8P it was the Nikon D70 not the Nikon D1X that likely ended the FM3a and 45/2.8P. People dumped their FM3a(s) and recently purchased AIS Nikkor lenses. I saw a Nikon FM3a, 28/2.0 AIS and 135/2.8 AIS appear on KEH.com just after the D70 was released. I immediately place an order for the lenses and they were absolutely mint and a nice discount from the gray market prices of these lenses at B&H Photo.

I found the D70 to be an inferior camera. It shared parts with the N80 and auto focus was inferior. My Nikon D2H could lock onto a single spider web filament one could not even see in the N80's inferior penta-Dach-mirror viewfinder. I remember the D70 for the many complaints about back focus. I guess Nikon needed the D70 for sales but I was not even slightly interested.

I remember those years as the "Canon Envy" years.

Dave
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Ilkka Nissilä

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Re: 1001 night 78, 48/2.8P
« Reply #5 on: June 29, 2021, 18:46:59 »
The Nikon FM3A was not a successor to the FM2.


The FM3A's "M" simply refers to the availability of the mechanical shutter which can be operated without electrical power at all (full stop) speeds. This puts it in the FM line of cameras.

Quote
A camera repairman friend opened one and told me it was an Nikon FE2 (almost identical) with a few extra buttons and the hybrid shutter.

Really? This article

https://imaging.nikon.com/history/chronicle/history-fm3a/

shows some inside views and all three seem quite different.

David H. Hartman

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Re: 1001 night 78, 48/2.8P
« Reply #6 on: June 29, 2021, 21:41:23 »
The FM3A's "M" simply refers to the availability of the mechanical shutter which can be operated without electrical power at all (full stop) speeds. This puts it in the FM line of cameras.

If you open a Nikon FM3a and a Nikon FE2, top and bottom covers, what I have said will instantly make sense. Even holding the FM3a, FE2 and FM2n and observing the location of the controls will clearly show that the FM3a is not based on the FM2 but rather on the FE2.

The FE2 and FM2n may look similar from the outside but internally they are quite different. Again open the top and bottom covers of an FM3a and FM2n and the marked dissimilarity will be apparent.

Note that the FM2n did not offer TTL flash while the FE2 had TTL flash which was the reason I bought two FE2(s). The TTL flash sensors are located in the bottom of the FE2 and FM3a mirror box.

Thank you for posting the article of the design history of the FM3a. I read it complete. It is interesting to note that an ammeter was obtained from a used FE2 and used as the base for the ammeter used in the FM3a. The differences between the FE2 and FM3a are all about shoe-horning the hybrid shutter and controls into the FE2 design.

Dave
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Roland Vink

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Re: 1001 night 78, 48/2.8P
« Reply #7 on: June 29, 2021, 23:43:08 »
I subscribe to "Form Follows Function" and the 45mm f/2.8P fails here for me. Also the chromed plastic doesn't cut it for me. I was taught "Truth in materials." If it's plastic it should look like plastic not wood or metal. This was the instructions of a architect friend of my father's and a teacher of art and design classes I took. 
The 45P is not chromed plastic, it is real metal. I bought a chrome one with my chrome FM3a. I still have the camera but sold the 45P after a few years - I don't have big hands but the lens was too small. The focus and aperture rings are very narrow and not easy to control by feel, and there is nothing solid on the lens to hold onto when attaching or removing from the camera. The optics were good but background rendition was not as smooth as I hoped. I eventually settled on the AI 50/1.8 as my favored standards lens - larger controls for better handling but still compact, nicer bokeh and more than a stop faster. Also cheaper. If I had bought the black 45P instead I might have kept it as it is a nice looking lens :o :)

MILLIREHM

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Re: 1001 night 78, 48/2.8P
« Reply #8 on: June 30, 2021, 00:26:20 »

The FM3A's "M" simply refers to the availability of the mechanical shutter which can be operated without electrical power at all (full stop) speeds. This puts it in the FM line of cameras.

Owning both the FM2 and a now worn out FE2 I agree to David. The FM3A was an FE2 with hybrid shutter,with the mechanical part serving as a backup (more than the FE2 having just one mechanical shutter speed) otherwise the controls the A mode the TTL flash followed the FE2. It should have been labeled FH or FE3. Nikon chose (not FM3 but ) FM3A (with the A standing for Automatic or Aperture priority i guess) for marketing considerations. (There were lots of other E and automatic cameras out there)
Wolfgang Rehm

richardHaw

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Re: 1001 night 78, 48/2.8P
« Reply #9 on: June 30, 2021, 01:27:44 »
i wonder if it is anything like the pentax LX in terms of how the hybrid shutter works :o :o :o

Roland Vink

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Re: 1001 night 78, 48/2.8P
« Reply #10 on: June 30, 2021, 01:45:36 »
Nikon chose (not FM3 but ) FM3A (with the A standing for Automatic or Aperture priority i guess) for marketing considerations. (There were lots of other E and automatic cameras out there)
The FE2 was manufactured from 1983 to 1987, while the FM2 was produced until 2001, the same year the FM3a was introduced. In terms of lineage the FM3a is closer to the FE2 and should have been called the FE3, or FE3m (FE3 with mechanical shutter, or even FEM (Electro-Mechanical).

On the other hand, in terms of continuity it made sense to market it as a direct replacement for the FM2, instead of a camera which had been out of production for 14 years. The name does not make much difference to me, it is still the best manual focus camera I have used :)

Snoogly

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Re: 1001 night 78, 48/2.8P
« Reply #11 on: June 30, 2021, 01:52:53 »
Good job there!

The black 45 mm P is available second hand for £995 (UK pounds) at Grays of Westminster. A thousand quid! I love that store but they sure know their pricing of rare items.

Indeed!

I can see two black ones for sale here in Japan, £250 and £275

Ilkka Nissilä

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Re: 1001 night 78, 48/2.8P
« Reply #12 on: June 30, 2021, 01:58:03 »
i wonder if it is anything like the pentax LX in terms of how the hybrid shutter works :o :o :o

Pentax's shutter was apparently controlled electronically for 1/60s to 4s and mechanically from 1/75s to 1/2000s. The FM3A controls the shutter electronically in aperture priority mode and mechanically for manual mode. So in the absence of batteries the Nikon loses metering and automatic exposure but continues to work at all full-stop shutter speeds up to 1/4000s whereas the Pentax would offer only shutter speeds up to 1/60s.  It seems quite complicated task to include both control methods in such a limited space, intertwining the mechanical and electrical control paths from the shutter speed dial to the shutter.

David H. Hartman

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Re: 1001 night 78, 48/2.8P
« Reply #13 on: June 30, 2021, 02:46:49 »
The 45P is not chromed plastic, it is real metal.

I'm glad to hear that. I'm not sure where I got that idea. I never owned a 45/2.8P.

Dave
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David H. Hartman

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Re: 1001 night 78, 48/2.8P
« Reply #14 on: June 30, 2021, 03:09:28 »
On the other hand, in terms of continuity it made sense to market it as a direct replacement for the FM2, instead of a camera which had been out of production for 14 years. The name does not make much difference to me, it is still the best manual focus camera I have used :)

I have forgotten a lot. I did not remember the FE2 was long out of production when the FM3a arrived. I do remember that I bought a third copy of the FE2 when it went out of production and now I remember the FM3a was very unexpected. I still own those three FE2(s) plus a pair of FM2n(s). I preferred the FM2n(s) in low light and the FE2 for all other use including with flash.

Until reading the article Ilkka posted I did not realize how much engineering went into the shutter and shutter speed control to provide both an electronic and mechanical shutter and interface.

Dave
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