Author Topic: Zeiss 50/2 (Milvus) vs. Nikkor 50/1.8 AI  (Read 11969 times)

David H. Hartman

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Re: Zeiss 50/2 (Milvus) vs. Nikkor 50/1.8 AI
« Reply #30 on: September 10, 2016, 04:08:34 »
...it keeps getting stated as a fact but I've never seen this tested and keep getting back to Ken Rockwell when I search for it, who also just states it as a fact.

Ken Rockwell did a roundup test of five or so 50mm Nikkor lenses. He stated that he did focus bracketing to assure an accurate assessment of each lens. I'll try to post a link latter. I'm sure this comparison predates the G-type 50/1.4 and 50/1.8. It also excludes the 58/1.2 Noct(s).

Dave

[I found a bunch of stuff but I didn't find exactly what I remembered so most likely my memory has failed me. I don't have time to do more searching this morning. If I ever get time I'd like to compare my 50/1.2 AIS to my 50/1.8 AI and AF-S 50/1.8G. I have a 50/1.4 AIS that lube contaminated. I have the tools to repair it but not the time. The truth is what I need more than any piece of equipment is time.]
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Airy

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Re: Zeiss 50/2 (Milvus) vs. Nikkor 50/1.8 AI
« Reply #31 on: September 10, 2016, 07:48:34 »
Many reviews are essentially subjective, in which case one should make his own opinion about the reviewer's personal preferences, biases, etc. Parker comes to mind (for wines), or Björn Rörslett (for Nikkors), etc. I do not rely much on Parker because his findings do not really correlate with my *experience*; I do rely on the other one because the correlation is good (except for the 50/1.8 until I found a good copy of the long nose version).

My grabbing one lens rather another one does not depend on sharpness only, let alone on MTF curves. My perception of a lens seems to depend on the pleasing memory of having obtained "good" results - the final shot, after PP, generally not printed, in which case sharpness is only one ingredient, I dare say secondary one, with respect to all manipulations and to the final downsampling. On the other hand, sharpness and "good" results seem to correlate well, and that elusive "3D pop" notion too. This is why I am still fooling around doing comparisons by using real life situations, rather than charts that I find nearly useless - real subjects have a depth and are placed at various distances, and are not uniformly lit. Still wondering about what ingredients contributed to the success.

At least one ingredient cannot be traced back on the final shot, namely the ergonomics. I always felt comfortable with the 50/2 ZF2, to the extent it was my standard lens in Iceland two years ago. On the opposite side, I do not feel at ease with the 50/1.4 AIS because my copy has too loose a focus ring which, in combination with the relatively short throw, is annoying. Result is a lower statistical score of focus accuracy, so the ergonomics may express themselves in the results after all.

No Ken Rockwell bashing from my side. I observed a few strange findings making me wonder if he ever has the reviewed lens at hand, indeed, but the same holds true for more renowned reviewers with paying websites.

His theory that lens sharpness does not really matter sounds provocative, but his insistence on the importance of a good focussing technique is quite to the point. Many of my naive test attempts (partly) failed because of that.

The only thing that really put me off on his site is his theory that "made in Japan" means good, "made in Thailand" so-so, and "made in China" means bad. Too much stinky ideology behind. I experienced that QA (like democracy) can be put at a use everywhere. But that's for another thread.
Airy Magnien

Akira

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Re: Zeiss 50/2 (Milvus) vs. Nikkor 50/1.8 AI
« Reply #32 on: September 10, 2016, 08:04:30 »
Airy, sorry to hijack your thread.  Hope my post make some sense...

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"Limitation is inspiration." - Akira

Airy

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Re: Zeiss 50/2 (Milvus) vs. Nikkor 50/1.8 AI
« Reply #33 on: September 10, 2016, 09:07:30 »
Akira, nooo apologies - I hijacked myself.
Concerning the 50/1.8G, the first copy I bought was also de-centered (which I understand is equivalent to your "uneven field curvature), but the retro one that came with the Df is perfect and will be used for testing.
Airy Magnien

Akira

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Re: Zeiss 50/2 (Milvus) vs. Nikkor 50/1.8 AI
« Reply #34 on: September 10, 2016, 09:57:50 »
Akira, nooo apologies - I hijacked myself.
Concerning the 50/1.8G, the first copy I bought was also de-centered (which I understand is equivalent to your "uneven field curvature), but the retro one that came with the Df is perfect and will be used for testing.

Thanks!

For your information, I attach an image shot with my first sample with the "uneven field curvature".  The lens was set at f5.6 and focused at the most distant part of the city seen in the center.  I raised the exposure to make the entire image more visible.  Otherwise the NEF is just converted to JPEG in CC2015.5.  I had to reduce the image quality to 60% because of the limitation of the maximum size of the individual image, but it should be good enough to see the uneven sharpness within the frame.

Please view large.  As you see, the center is sharp, the righ-hand side of the distant scene is very soft, the left-hand side scene is also soft but not as the right-hand side.  On the other hand, the below left as well as below right corners are fairly sharp.
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Airy

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Re: Zeiss 50/2 (Milvus) vs. Nikkor 50/1.8 AI
« Reply #35 on: September 10, 2016, 10:32:19 »
To me, the focus was not set on infinite (even if that was your intention). I do not see anything distant being in focus.
Airy Magnien

Akira

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Re: Zeiss 50/2 (Milvus) vs. Nikkor 50/1.8 AI
« Reply #36 on: September 10, 2016, 10:58:44 »
I focused manually using the magnified live view image.  The polluted air could have made the iamge appear soft.

Or, maybe it was caused by the focus shift?  I might have focused with the lens wide open.
"The eye is blind if the mind is absent." - Confucius

"Limitation is inspiration." - Akira

simsurace

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Re: Zeiss 50/2 (Milvus) vs. Nikkor 50/1.8 AI
« Reply #37 on: September 10, 2016, 13:02:34 »
I have seen one serious site stating it and providing evidence (MTF curves). Hope to retrieve the url.
Thanks for the hint. If you find it, that would be great!
Simone Carlo Surace
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simsurace

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Re: Zeiss 50/2 (Milvus) vs. Nikkor 50/1.8 AI
« Reply #38 on: September 10, 2016, 13:06:36 »
Before putting your money down do some cross checking :)
I bought the 50/1.2 for being the fastest 50mm and for wide-open characteristics. I agree that the performance at f/2 is very good, and it may well be unrivaled by any Nikon lens (of course the 55mm Otus would change things up). But it would be nice if that reputation was actually founded in some data. I think that a potential competitor would be the 50/1.8 AF-S due to the aspherics.
Simone Carlo Surace
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David H. Hartman

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Re: Zeiss 50/2 (Milvus) vs. Nikkor 50/1.8 AI
« Reply #39 on: September 10, 2016, 20:18:41 »
Here are a couple of KR 50mm lens comparisons.

The first is a 2010 comparison and includes the AF-S 50/1.4G, AF-D 50/1.4 and 50/1.2 AIS as well as the 58/1.2 AIS Noct...

http://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/comparisons/50mm-f12/

Here is another comparison that does not include the 50/1.2 AIS (maybe the one I remember)...

http://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/50-comparison/index.htm

The best or sharpest (center, edge?) 50mm Nikkor at f/2.0 statement is surely out of date.

Dave

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Airy

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Re: Zeiss 50/2 (Milvus) vs. Nikkor 50/1.8 AI
« Reply #40 on: September 11, 2016, 16:08:21 »
I bought the 50/1.2 for being the fastest 50mm and for wide-open characteristics. I agree that the performance at f/2 is very good, and it may well be unrivaled by any Nikon lens (of course the 55mm Otus would change things up). But it would be nice if that reputation was actually founded in some data. I think that a potential competitor would be the 50/1.8 AF-S due to the aspherics.

I have found the picture (*center* MTF curves) but not the original web page publishing it. As usual, such pieces of evidence get copied and pasted all over the place, losing lots of contextual info while being at the same time held up as absolute truths. As you will see in another thread, my findings are different, and the disturbing factor is one lens not mentioned in the picture, the 50/1.4 AIS (is it identical, optically, with the AFD version?)
Airy Magnien