NikonGear

Gear Talk => Lens Talk => Topic started by: richardHaw on March 29, 2021, 09:53:10

Title: nikon 1001 Nikkor-S 50mm 1.4
Post by: richardHaw on March 29, 2021, 09:53:10
https://imaging.nikon.com/history/story/0077/index.htm?fbclid=IwAR0C7IQK0qQ-YsrJpnFw2I8WVrCPki5jB-AVBlUUsHyLgKDfFuIk2QpFJbo

what a long link :o :o :o
Title: Re: nikon 1001 Nikkor-S 50mm 1.4
Post by: Birna Rørslett on March 29, 2021, 16:42:28
A very long link suitable for a good performer :)

I have one of these and  the description in 1001 Nikon Nights is spot on.

It does, however, have a weak hot spot in IR if you stop down to f/8 or beyond. Just to inform the 50/1.4 is not "perfect".
Title: Re: nikon 1001 Nikkor-S 50mm 1.4
Post by: richardHaw on March 29, 2021, 16:53:12
https://richardhaw.com/2020/02/23/review-nikkor-s-50mm-f-1-4-millennium/

my owen review, of course :o :o :o
Title: Re: nikon 1001 Nikkor-S 50mm 1.4
Post by: richardHaw on March 29, 2021, 16:57:52
VI. Low-pass filters and optical performance

this section by the professor is very informative :o :o :o
Title: Re: nikon 1001 Nikkor-S 50mm 1.4
Post by: MEPER on March 29, 2021, 17:14:13
How would it compare to the SLR version?

"night and day"?   .....1000 nights and days?
Title: Re: nikon 1001 Nikkor-S 50mm 1.4
Post by: Jack Dahlgren on March 29, 2021, 18:09:56
VI. Low-pass filters and optical performance

this section by the professor is very informative :o :o :o

Yes, it is interesting and also promises an interesting future:

"Because of this, the optics that include the low-pass filter built into Z system cameras like the Z 6, Z 7, and Z 50 are designed with a minimalistic structure to be ultra slim so that they change aberration characteristics as little as possible when old NIKKOR lenses are used. That is another aspect of these cameras that makes them the best cameras to use with old lenses. The Nikon Z system plays a very active role in the writing of tales for NIKKOR - The Thousand and One Nights. I would like to test many more old lenses with these new cameras in the near future."
Title: Re: nikon 1001 Nikkor-S 50mm 1.4
Post by: MEPER on March 29, 2021, 19:58:06
This triggered my curiosity and I put a Nikkor-S 50/1.4 (SLR version) on my Z50 and even that it was quite dark I shot some hand held test images from my balcony.
F/1.4 at 1/40 sec.

The image quality much better than expected. From what I have read lens is quite bad at 1.4 and needs to be stopped down to 2.8 or so......but I don't think so. At least not on a cropped sensor. It also shares the same optical formular as the S-version?

Attached the test image and 3 100% crops. I like the way the lights are rendered at full aperture.....
First time I tried this lens on a camera......have 2-3 of them + the S-C version. Two of them are just sitting on F-bodies to look good.
Title: Re: nikon 1001 Nikkor-S 50mm 1.4
Post by: Erik Lund on March 29, 2021, 21:44:12
https://imaging.nikon.com/history/story/0077/index.htm?fbclid=IwAR0C7IQK0qQ-YsrJpnFw2I8WVrCPki5jB-AVBlUUsHyLgKDfFuIk2QpFJbo (https://imaging.nikon.com/history/story/0077/index.htm?fbclid=IwAR0C7IQK0qQ-YsrJpnFw2I8WVrCPki5jB-AVBlUUsHyLgKDfFuIk2QpFJbo)

what a long link :o :o :o

Thank you, very interesting! reminds me of my findings shooting various Leica M, Nikkor and Voigtlander lenses on the Leica M8 and M9 with and without Leicas dedicated UV/IR filters.
Title: Re: nikon 1001 Nikkor-S 50mm 1.4
Post by: MEPER on March 30, 2021, 23:17:26
How much in common has the rangefinder lens with the SLR lens?

After a walk with the SLR lens I find it very good. Relative sharp wide open and very sharp stopped down a bit. Both lenses are 7-element Gauss?
A couple of example from the walk attached.

Last two images an example of 1.4 image and 100% crop that shows lens is quite sharp wide open.
Strange that some thinks it is "unusable" at 1.4?     .....or my copy is better that others? :-)
It might be that in the film-days that it was hard to focus......
Title: Re: nikon 1001 Nikkor-S 50mm 1.4
Post by: Roland Vink on March 31, 2021, 00:01:06
How much in common has the rangefinder lens with the SLR lens?
The article says: "This lens hints at the dawn of the F mount era."

As you say, both lenses are 7-element Gauss. The older Nikkor-S 5.8/1.4 also has 7 elements with two convex elements at the front. This lens would have been designed before the Nikkor-S 50/1.4 rangefinder lens:
(https://imaging.nikon.com/history/story/0040/img/img3.jpg)

The newer rangefinder and F-mount lenses have two convex elements at the rear and only one convex element which gives better correction of coma (see https://imaging.nikon.com/history/story/0044/index.htm).

S-mount:
(https://imaging.nikon.com/history/story/0077/img/pic_01.jpg)
F-mount:
(https://imaging.nikon.com/history/story/0044/img/img1.jpg)

Title: Re: nikon 1001 Nikkor-S 50mm 1.4
Post by: MEPER on March 31, 2021, 00:34:12
The slight difference between the S and F is probably that the F had to clear the mirror.
It was made for really many years I can see but not used by many today.
It has a nice build quality so around 100 Euros used is cheap for such a fine lens.......
Title: Re: nikon 1001 Nikkor-S 50mm 1.4
Post by: Akira on March 31, 2021, 02:22:09
At that time, the S-mount 50mm lenses should be much more advantageous, because there were no restriction to clear the mirror.  I would bet that S-mount standards would perform much better than the F-mount siblings on film.

On digital bodies, there should be another story.  The angle of the light rays from a rangefinder lens hitting on the sensor is much more steep than those from the F-mount lens.  So, the peripherals would suffer more.
Title: Re: nikon 1001 Nikkor-S 50mm 1.4
Post by: MEPER on March 31, 2021, 09:17:08
Maybe modern sensors have developed so they better "like" rays from an angle other than "straight on"?   .....is the fine word "Perpendicular"?
Each pixel on sensor has a small lens now to better handle rays from an angle?

I think the DX sensor was the definite answer "back then" to how the digital Nikon format should be. One of the argument was that rays should be "Perpendicular".
Think I remember a Nikon article in maybe "Nikon Pro" magazine where the headline was like "Who needs fulframe".....but time has changed this.....
I have yet to get my first FX-body....
Title: Re: nikon 1001 Nikkor-S 50mm 1.4
Post by: Akira on March 31, 2021, 10:06:43
Maybe modern sensors have developed so they better "like" rays from an angle other than "straight on"?   .....is the fine word "Perpendicular"?
Each pixel on sensor has a small lens now to better handle rays from an angle?

I think the DX sensor was the definite answer "back then" to how the digital Nikon format should be. One of the argument was that rays should be "Perpendicular".
Think I remember a Nikon article in maybe "Nikon Pro" magazine where the headline was like "Who needs fulframe".....but time has changed this.....
I have yet to get my first FX-body....

Yes, the peripheral micro lenses on the sensor in Leica M models are shifted towards the center to capture the light rays of steeper angle of incident from the M-mount lenses.
Title: Re: nikon 1001 Nikkor-S 50mm 1.4
Post by: MEPER on March 31, 2021, 10:29:38
Who makes the sensors Leica use for their M-cameras?

There are not that many reviews about using Leica M glass on Z-cameras.....especially not the modern lenses. I guess it is the pricing....and not because of "poor quality".....
Title: Re: nikon 1001 Nikkor-S 50mm 1.4
Post by: Erik Lund on March 31, 2021, 10:34:06
Yes, the peripheral micro lenses on the sensor in Leica M models are shifted towards the center to capture the light rays of steeper angle of incident from the M-mount lenses.

Exactly and that is why some Leica M lenses work really bad on for instance the Sony A7x models specially the high resolution ones. Don't know about Nikon Z for sure, but I believe the Nikon Z sensor filter stack is very thin, compared to Sony A7x filter stack. That will help a lot for this issue.
The micro lens arrangement on the Leica M sensors are designed for select Leica M lenses, not all of them and not the Leica SL nor R system.
Title: Re: nikon 1001 Nikkor-S 50mm 1.4
Post by: Nikfuson on March 31, 2021, 10:44:26
The filter stack thickness issue is demonstrated well here:
https://phillipreeve.net/blog/review-kolari-ultra-thin-sensor-stack-modification/
Title: Re: nikon 1001 Nikkor-S 50mm 1.4
Post by: MEPER on March 31, 2021, 11:34:54
From here they finds out that Z7 filter stack is about 1.1mm (half as thick as Sony) but if the camera is being adapted it will be only about 0.2mm?
https://kolarivision.com/nikon-z7-dissasembly-teardown/
Title: Re: nikon 1001 Nikkor-S 50mm 1.4
Post by: Erik Lund on March 31, 2021, 11:47:36
Different conversion brands have different filters, that's also why they provide focus calibration after conversion.
We are diverting a lot off the main topic here,,,
Title: Re: nikon 1001 Nikkor-S 50mm 1.4
Post by: MEPER on March 31, 2021, 12:27:23
Yes, the "link" back to the main topic was that a Z-body was used for testing the 50/1.4 and that it was mentioned that vintage glass performed well on those bodies.
And if some vintage lenses performs better on Z-body than on film-body it is quite interesting. Maybe even better on a cropped sensor like Z-50.
Title: Re: nikon 1001 Nikkor-S 50mm 1.4
Post by: Erik Lund on March 31, 2021, 16:26:33
Who makes the sensors Leica use for their M-cameras?

There are not that many reviews about using Leica M glass on Z-cameras.....especially not the modern lenses. I guess it is the pricing....and not because of "poor quality".....

We have done many tests with Leica M lenses on various other cameras over the years, like the Leica SL and Sony A7x. Also new lenses and they definitely perform best on Leica M cameras.For me one lens stood out; The latest Leica M 35mm ASPH f/1.4 outstanding on all cameras. I really enjoyed that lens, I just gave up in the end - the poor high ISO performance of the digital Leica M cameras killed the joy.Many of the other Leica M lenses suffer due to the sensor thickness, specially in the corners also the sensor anti aliasing filters kill the sharpness.
The Leica M shine only as "a system" sharp lenses, no AA filter, optimized micro lenses. IMHO
Title: Re: nikon 1001 Nikkor-S 50mm 1.4
Post by: Erik Lund on March 31, 2021, 16:28:17
Yes, the "link" back to the main topic was that a Z-body was used for testing the 50/1.4 and that it was mentioned that vintage glass performed well on those bodies.
And if some vintage lenses performs better on Z-body than on film-body it is quite interesting. Maybe even better on a cropped sensor like Z-50.

Those are UV and IR filter modifications,,, and you will need a second filter for the thin one,,,