NikonGear'23
Gear Talk => Camera Talk => Topic started by: jeremycole on February 28, 2016, 09:00:52
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Hello, all.
I'm dabbling with my Nikon F Photomic (FTN) and feeling a little frustrated with the focus screen in it. When using lenses with a shallow depth of field it's pretty hard to determine where my focus is, even when I really take my time. I resort to looking at the edges of features near my intended point of focus. When they look fairly smooth in that "pixelated" looking view in the screen I call it good but getting photos back I can see that I'm off a bit at times.
I understand there are actually different screens for different applications? Any tips on these mysterious screens would be greatly appreciated!
Best,
Jeremy
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As far as I recall, there were at least 19 different types of focusing screens for the Nikon F series. All served more or less specific purposes to aid focusing under exacting circumstances. Some of them were focal length-compliant versions of a coarse grain screen with fresnel lenses all over. A few used aerial image focusing.
I specifically recall using the 'R' screen for my slow and difficult-to-focus 15 mm f/5.6, and the 'B' screen for my fast lenses. Do remember the grain of these screens really was made to break up the aerial image and although current Nikons all claim to use a 'B'-type screen, it has very little in common with the similarly designated groundglass of the old days. Today, the focus is (literally) on AF use and the screens are far too bright (and fine-grained) to serve any demanding requirements for manual focusing.
I guess you will find a full overview at the Mir Nikon site. I have the pamphlets stored somewhere, but locating them in order to make a scan is another task for the never-arriving spare time.
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Read up here; the Mir site by Michael Liu is a treasure trove for all such information by the way
http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/hardwares/classics/michaeliu/cameras/shared/ff2screens.htm
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Wow, that is a great resource. Exactly what I was looking for.
Thanks again, Bjørn!
Jeremy
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personally, the K screen is all that I need ::)
i just hope that nikon incorporates focus peaking in live view. :o :o :o
currently, you get no feedback from liveview when using manual lenses.
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According to the instruction manuals of F and F2 at hand, the recommended focusing screens for the lenses with shallow DOF (fast standard lenses and mid-teles up to 200/4.0) are A, J, B, E G2 and H2.
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...... When they look fairly smooth in that "pixelated" looking view in the screen I call it good but getting photos back I can see that I'm off a bit at times.
I understand there are actually different screens for different applications? Any tips on these mysterious screens would be greatly appreciated!
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Have you tried to check it out for misalignment?
Many years back my initial foray into photography was with my father's Miranda SLR.
After a few rolls of film were captured then processed, it turns out that every one of them was far too blurred to be a coincidence that I'm shooting incorrectly.
Took camera into a repairer and they confirmed that focus was indeed out of whack!
Couple of hundred dollars later and all was well again.
It's not hard for a camera to have it's focus alignment off just far enough to be annoying like that.
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I just ordered a K-3 screen for my Df from www.focusingscreen.com. No idea about the quality or potential issues, but will report in due time. The screen derives from the Nikon FM3a, so hopefully is more coarse-grained than the stock screen for the Df.
The price was acceptable, around USD 100 incl. shipping.
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I just ordered a K-3 screen for my Df from www.focusingscreen.com. No idea about the quality or potential issues, but will report in due time. The screen derives from the Nikon FM3a, so hopefully is more coarse-grained than the stock screen for the Df.
The price was acceptable, around USD 100 incl. shipping.
I was looking after this screen as well, so I'm very interested in your findings.
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I was looking after this screen as well, so I'm very interested in your findings.
another one interested in your findings.... Same screen I put in my FA
Art
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When the screen arrives, I'll let Nikon repair service install it and check for focusing accuracy. A few field trials with my fast Nikkors will quickly disclose whether the screen really is an improvement over the stock one.
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This might be a better choice than the rather dark S-screen with respect to screen brightness if one can stand the split image/microprism field and bear the consequences for spot metering. The Katzeyes are also based on FM3a screens as far as I know.
Perhaps you could set up for some before-after tests of the viewfinder image/screen brightness?
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Brightness is not the issue as such. I want a more coarse-grained screen better able to break up the aerial image. That by default means it'll be darker. Only parallax-focusing the aerial image with a clear screen and a target cross will be brighter (much brighter, in fact, but is mainly useful for photomacrography and suchlike activities).
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When the screen arrives, I'll let Nikon repair service install it and check for focusing accuracy...
This is probably a wise thing to do. I received mine, tried to install the focusing screen myself, but did not manage to remove the factory one. I have successfully changed focusing screens on the Canon 6D and 1V, but with the Df I stopped for fear of breaking something. Unfortunately I am always on the move so sending the camera to service is not very convenient.
I'll wait for better days, but in the meantime I would very like to know about Bjørn's experience.
Albert
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I know my limitations ... side effect from Lyme disease makes fingers stiff and less pliable.
Anyhow no screen received yet. But the company keeps updating me on the progress of its manufacture by newsletters presented in a charming 'pidgin' English of which I am able to decode about 50%. Obviously this is a small enterprise and probably manned by just one or two people. However, enthusiastic and that counts for much.
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The "P" screen for the Nikon F and F2 puts the split-prism at a 45degree angle, and has cross-hairs. I tend to keep it in the most used bodies.
It would be helpful to know which finder-aids used in the past for manual focus.
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Most of my cameras back then had E or K screens. Also used the R for work with the 15/5.6 that was a bear otherwise to focus. For some photomacrographic work I employed a C screen.
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I received my replacement focusing screen a few days ago and today dropped in to the friendly Nikon Repair Facility at FotoCare (Oslo) to get their assistance in installing it.
The screen was a K3 (split-image centre with a surrounding "doughnut" comprised of microprisms). It is sourced from a factory made screen for the FM3A. My Nikon tech said the screen itself had been expertly modified and thus fitted the camera nicely. However, the plastic shims packaged with the screen were too flimsy and fragile to stay really put for a work-horse camera. Thus, after seeing the shims actually shifted to the extent their edges became visible in the finder when using the camera, we found jointly out that putting in genuine metal factory shims would be the only viable approach.
The camera now focused even the brightest f/1.2 lenses perfectly and neither the split image nor microprisms blacken out with my 50-300/4.5 ED Zoom-Nikkor. I found the screen to be perceptibly much brighter than I had expected.
I got it from www.focusingscreen.com. They have a good selection of replacement screens and ship world wide. Quite acceptable prices too once you realise they quote in Taiwan dollars.
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This must be in your Df Bjørn ;)
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The working Df sample, absolutely.
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I've had the K3 from focusingscreen since Jan 2015 in both D800E and DF
My D800E was easy and focus was perfect without needing shims.
My Df needed a lot of mucking around - it ended up not needing any more or less than the 4 shims(!) already in there but a huge amount of trial and error. I ended scratching my Df screen which happens when you do things at 1AM instead of going to sleep and because I must have adjusted with the shims about 20 times over several days. The D800E was sharp straight away and was A LOT easier.
They are not as dark as the FE2 K screen - I concur with the Bear that f5.6 lenses doesnt darken the view appreciably whereas they seem to in the FE2. An f8 mirror lens is no problem either but almost useless with FE2 as was the 25-50mm f4 when it gets dark or indoors.
I've got a very busy next few days but will try to get some viewfinder shots to demonstrate next week
JJ
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I tried the matte screen offered by Fousingscreen.com last summer in a D800; I elected not to leave it installed --- partially due to the visible-in-use scratches I put on it while installing, but also due to the cheap, die-cut polyester shims supplied. If I do it again, let a repair technician handle the tedious trial and error 'shell game' of getting the metal shim stack correct.
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personally, the K screen is all that I need ::)
i just hope that nikon incorporates focus peaking in live view. :o :o :o
currently, you get no feedback from liveview when using manual lenses.
I am also a fan of the K screens.
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I received my replacement focusing screen a few days ago and today dropped in to the friendly Nikon Repair Facility at FotoCare (Oslo) to get their assistance in installing it.
The screen was a K3 (split-image centre with a surrounding "doughnut" comprised of microprisms). It is sourced from a factory made screen for the FM3A. My Nikon tech said the screen itself had been expertly modified and thus fitted the camera nicely. However, the plastic shims packaged with the screen were too flimsy and fragile to stay really put for a work-horse camera. Thus, after seeing the shims actually shifted to the extent their edges became visible in the finder when using the camera, we found jointly out that putting in genuine metal factory shims would be the only viable approach.
The camera now focused even the brightest f/1.2 lenses perfectly and neither the split image nor microprisms blacken out with my 50-300/4.5 ED Zoom-Nikkor. I found the screen to be perceptibly much brighter than I had expected.
I got it from www.focusingscreen.com. They have a good selection of replacement screens and ship world wide. Quite acceptable prices too once you realise they quote in Taiwan dollars.
Does it effect the auto focusing if you are using an AF-s lens?
thanks!
Art
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Does it effect the auto focusing if you are using an AF-s lens?
No, apparently not. I'm not using AF/AFS lenses that much with the Df, but those few I tried so far, nail focus perfectly as before.
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Does it effect the auto focusing if you are using an AF-s lens?
...and the metering?
Thanks
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Does it effect the auto focusing if you are using an AF-s lens?
thanks!
Art
It does not affect AF much (unless the matrix light meter's info to the AF calculation has too much influence - not sure how much the Df's system relies on this though). What can be affected though is spot and centre weighted metering. But the work around is to do a master adjustment to the camera's metering system (cannot remember the menu).
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This is called metering fine-tune and acts as a global relocation of what the light meter thinks is "0" Ie. the zero point of adjustment. I usually set this to be -1/6 EV for matrix metering on all Nikons supporting the feature. Have to test whether the spot and centre-weighted modes will need any additional adjustment after the new focusing screen is installed.
This global correction will not show up anywhere else later.
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This is called metering fine-tune and acts as a global relocation of what the light meter thinks is "0" Ie. the zero point of adjustment. I usually set this to be -1/6 EV for matrix metering on all Nikons supporting the feature. Have to test whether the spot and centre-weighted modes will need any additional adjustment after the new focusing screen is installed.
This global correction will not show up anywhere else later.
I'm very interested in hearing your findings on how this new screen affects metering. I'm also be very interested in your procedure for fine tuning the meter.
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So far metering seems no to be affected. I'll evaluate this aspect more in detail over the next days though.
Fine-tuning the meter by global adjustment(s) is found under the Custom Settings menu, the heading is 'Metering/Exposure'. For the Df it is option (b2). Other Nikons will have something similar. You can set the adjustment for all metering modes separately.
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A quick demonstration of no pictorial value whatsoever.
Df and the 58/1.2 Noct at f/1.2. I have focused the lower part of my Stax Signature earspeakers using the only the matted screen into the corner of the frame. No recomposing. The scene is pretty dark so used ISO 8000.
I was administering the evening asthma medication in my inhaler and just made a quick snap shot while breathing the medicine mist. Hard to believe I could get the manual focus this precise without any split-image or microprism helping aids.
Overall view, then 100%. I think this shows that the K3 replacement screen is a worthwhile improvement for the Df with fast lenses. Also an indication of the bokeh nature of the Noct, by the way.
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Bjorn, glad you found their product well done, I have the S type screen and really enjoy it. I've been wondering whether I should swap it back to the original screen before sending my camera into Nikon for service. I'm glad to see they didn't give you ttouble for it, though I am not you.
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Of course they didn't give me trouble. I called my contact tech first and asked him for assistance ... He happily obliged as he knows I tend to bring the occasional chocolate box with me ...
On a more serious note, building professional relationships over time is a good investment of your time. I know when I can really push them for immediate attention and they all know I know they know so we are on great friendly talking terms.
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In my experience at the Los Angeles Nikon service facility, contact with the technicians is not allowed; the technicians are kept behind a closed door which cannot be seen through, and through which no customer has ever been known to pass.
Small country = nicer, I think.
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I think I will replace the original screen when I send it in. I do not have the clout Bjørn does and will likely just get some kind of warning against third party screens or statements of it effecting my warranty. I haven't been to the closest Nikon facility, but I'm guessing it is similar to the LA one.
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In my experience at the Los Angeles Nikon service facility, contact with the technicians is not allowed; the technicians are kept behind a closed door which cannot be seen through, and through which no customer has ever been known to pass.
Small country = nicer, I think.
here, you can talk to the technician if they need to explain something super technical. they will even call you sometimes for some questions about the repair. but usually, you only get to talk to the guy at the counter. :o :o :o the technicians are busy anyway. ::)
i modified my D7200 with a K screen. i took it off because if they found that out my warranty will be voided. i am on the red list now in Nikon, i knew about it when the rep told me that "any mods you have done will void the warranty" in a very suggestive way. i am a familiar face there lol.
i would like to make an article on how to shave the usual K screen to fit DX next month
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I am also a fan of the K screens.
Hi, Gary! the K screen is almost always out of supply in focusscreens.com (the Taiwanese guys). :o :o :o
they are very popular
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question: do the focus point selection (the little box) still show up when changing focus points after changing to the K screen on the Df?
Art
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The focus screen has no effect on the AF boxes. You can use any focus screen and they don't change.
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Thanks - i just order a k3 for my Df!
Art
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question: do the focus point selection (the little box) still show up when changing focus points after changing to the K screen on the Df?
Art
those tiny AＦ boxes are being "read" by your meter/AF sensor. it is under the mirror on the floor of the mirrorbox. the mirror is actually semi transparent by the way so that the sensor below it can see what it needs to see and folds up as you flick the shutter :o :o :o
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Terrible pictures but quick and nasty: D800E - focused with K3 screen at f1.2 on Noct
Shots through D800E viewfinder and then D600 viewfinder which has standard screen. I think the only thing you can tell from this is that the screen is a touch darker and contrasts better and that there are different eyepoints.
If I get more time I'll try again with a less bright lens.
I can't get decent shots with the viewfinder showing AF boxes lit - for all intents and purposes it is exactly the same as the standard screen except the ground glass area and split prism. I haven't noticed a big difference in metering either although I haven't done a lot of spot metering. Matrix and centre-weighted seem same - BUT I do not have the same experience or skill as some of the others here and would not notice a huge difference +/- 0.5EV
JJ
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for me it was different, the dot on the bottom is more than enough for me so i took the K screens off of my cameras :o :o :o
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The green dot is really helpful, though I don't like looking away from my composition. I wish the AF boxes would light up when in focus, would really help with MF while letting you keep your eye on the composition.
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The green dot is really helpful, though I don't like looking away from my composition. I wish the AF boxes would light up when in focus, would really help with MF while letting you keep your eye on the composition.
My mirrorless Sonys do that. I guess that it's difficult to include this in the LCD overlay in an OVF. When I had a DSLR, it wouldn't even tell me which AF point(s) that it used during AF tracking, so it was difficult to know what the AF tracking was "thinking".
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Wait, what? A Sony AF point will light when in focus?? How do you set it to do that???
I do not see any AF points on the screen at all??
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Wait, what? A Sony AF point will light when in focus?? How do you set it to do that???
I do not see any AF points on the screen at all??
I use "flexible point Small", I hope that's what it's called in English, with a native E mount lens.
Edit: works in all AF modes.
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I have flexible point with small, medium or large choices on the a7R. But I never see the focus point on screen with my manual lens. It must only work with Sony lenses. When I press the magnifier button, I see the magnifier rectangle which I can move around. But it is never changes size and never lights up.
Oh well.
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I have flexible point with small, medium or large choices on the a7R. But I never see the focus point on screen with my manual lens. It must only work with Sony lenses. When I press the magnifier button, I see the magnifier rectangle which I can move around. But it is never changes size and never lights up.
Oh well.
This is for AF lenses, when doing autofocus, then the AF bracket lights up when focus is achieved by the AF lens.
For MF lenses, the magnifier works with different magnifications, approx. 5x and 10x.
I'm sorry if I misread your original post. I usually use native AF lenses and think along the lines they work. :) I actually like focus by wire, so the native lenses work nicely as MF glass in my opinion, with much better focus throw than Nikon Ai-S of AF lenses. Nikon Ai, not Ai-S, still have the best "feel" though, due to their usually long focus throw.
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So far metering seems no to be affected. I'll evaluate this aspect more in detail over the next days though.
Fine-tuning the meter by global adjustment(s) is found under the Custom Settings menu, the heading is 'Metering/Exposure'. For the Df it is option (b2). Other Nikons will have something similar. You can set the adjustment for all metering modes separately.
Hi Bjørn,
I know where the adjustment is in the menu. My question is what is your procedure for determining what the adjustment should be?
Thank you
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Trial and error.
It works.
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..... I found the screen to be perceptibly much brighter than I had expected......
Could you quantify this in any way especially compared to say a stock screen.
It doesn't matter too much tho, I think I've resigned myself to getting a K version too .. and then switch between each type(I have the S already) as my mood takes me.
The S screen is visibly darker than stock on the D800E, especially when used with 'slow' f/2.8, or slower, lenses.
The problem is I can't quantify the amount as I need to replace the screen to view it in each situation, so no (easy) way to compare side by side.
I don't stay in regular touch with the only other (physical) person I known that has a D800 to compare side by side.
If I were to guess, I'd say that the difference between S type(a Canon screen type) and a stock screen could be as much as 2 Ev darker than a stock screen with an f/2.8 lens fitted.
I have noted before that I have a Katzeye(with Optibright) for my D300 and it was notably brighter than the stock D300 screen!
And that there is a major difference between D300+Katzeye and the D800+Stype screen. More than 2Ev.
.... When I had a DSLR, it wouldn't even tell me which AF point(s) that it used during AF tracking, so it was difficult to know what the AF tracking was "thinking".
Curious as to which DSLR that didn't display a focus square during tracking?
If Nikon, I'd have guessed that from the D300 and onwards all Nikon cameras capable of tracking also show the focus square as you track with it.
And remember the D300 is a 10 yo camera now.
D300's AF tracking is very hit and miss if the subject being tracked is not massively obvious from it's surroundings. D800 is a lot better in holding the subject.
Both those cameras DO show the AF square in use for AF tracking tho.
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I was looking after this screen as well, so I'm very interested in your findings.
The K-3 screen was the standard screen for the Nikon FM3a and the type 3 screens were the brightest screen available for the FM and FE family of cameras. As the brightest the are probably the least desirable for super speed lenses. I never use one but my guess is they are similar to the Red Dot screens for the F3HP. The original K, B and E screens for the FE are the dimmest of this type. I have some experience with those in an FM2. The screens I used most were the E-2 and K-2 in the FM2n and FE2. If I still used those camera I'd have a few or the original E screens to use with my 50/1.2 Ais. The type 2 screens was a good compromise for someone who's fastest lens was a f/1.8.
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Arthur
My post further up this thread with the view through viewfinder was shot with D600 normal screen and the K3 screen on D800E. Camera was set to manual and fixed exposure so theoretically comparable brightness.
I don't think there's as much as 1EV difference between stock and K3 screen so it's pretty bright.
David's post about FE2 makes sense to me - I don't get a lot of darkness with new K3 screen compared to FE2 screen on lenses >f4
If you like I'll try to do more shots through the vf with a slower lens than the Noct. If anyone can give me pointers on how to do this better?
JJ
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i would like to make an article on how to shave the usual K screen to fit DX next month
If I were fitting a screen to a DX camera I would first test a K, K-2 and a K-3 screen in an FM2,FE2 or FM3a with the fastest lens one will use. Unless there is some kind of Voodoo I don't know about the original K screen from the FE will be best for fast lenses when focusing on the matte screen surface.
The split image rangefinder is a compromise. In my experience if a lens, say an 80-200/4.0 AIS or a 200/4.0 AI/AIS Micro is on the camera if my eye is well centered I won't have problems with rangefinder blackout. If the lens is an f/4.5 lens like my 80-200/4.5 non-AI of years back rangefinder blackout is a problem. I got sick of rangefinder blackout and adopted the E screen in the '80s as I could focus anywhere on the screen and I didn't have to recompose which takes time and shots can be missed.
I don't think the standard K screens look anywhere close to the edges of an f/1.4 or even f/1.8 lens. It they did then rangefinder blackout might start f/2.8 or f/2.5. I wonder what the accuracy of a A, K or P screen really is.
Maybe a K-3 screen is a reasonable compromise if one uses the split rangefinder. I think I'd want an E-2 screen.
Anyway my 2 cents here is test and see which screen is most suitable.
Dave
In my experience centering
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My other Df with stock screen is no longer operational, so hard to to compare to the new K3-modified Df body. Impression is the K3 is bright, but not as bright as the stock screen. Difference is not dramatic though. The nearest compatible "film" system at hand was an FM2 with K2 screen. This is slightly brighter than the K3/Df, but as the finder magnifications are not equal, it's hard to tell what level of difference I am seeing.
The main point being however I now can focus my fast f/1.2 & f/1.4 lenses manually with ease even outside the centre area with focusing aids.
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Does anyone know what's going on with F5 screens? I see light broken up into red, green and blue. I don't remember this on the F4 or any previous models.
Dave
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The main point being however I now can focus my fast f/1.2 & f/1.4 lenses manually with ease even outside the centre area with focusing aids.
What about a B-3 screen? Are fast lenses easy to focus on the matte surface of the type 3 screens or is it easy because of the split image rangefineder? If I were going switch the focus screen in my D800 I'd want B screen (B-3 or B-2). I finally came to prefer a camera without a focus aid and used E and B screens.
Dave
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The fast wideangle lenses like a split-image screen ....
In the old days, I tended to prefer the "E" type screen.
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The B-3 screens for FM-3a is the base for the Katzeye all matte screens that I have. In my experience it is very easy to focus on those screens (http://nikongear.net/revival/index.php/topic,539.msg26915.html#msg26915 (http://nikongear.net/revival/index.php/topic,539.msg26915.html#msg26915)). The largest aperture lens that I have is the 50mm f/1.8 where the impression of the blurred areas is very close to the final capture (for the non-Optibright version only). I suspect that the Canon S screen in my D7100 (for the time being, waiting for the last available all matte Katzeye to be manufactured for me) has even more blurring effect, perhaps even a little exaggerated, but it is not easier to focus than the Katzeye screens, the micro-contrast of the focused areas may even seem higher and snap into focus easier on the Katzeyes. As also mentioned earlier the S-screen is markedly darker, which could be due to more blurring effect, but also could have something to do with the optimization of the Fresnel lens of the screen to typical exit pupils positions optimal for Canon, not Nikon bodies. Interestingly both FM-3a B3 and K3 screens are in stock at B&H.
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Could you quantify this in any way especially compared to say a stock screen.
It doesn't matter too much tho, I think I've resigned myself to getting a K version too .. and then switch between each type(I have the S already) as my mood takes me.
The S screen is visibly darker than stock on the D800E, especially when used with 'slow' f/2.8, or slower, lenses.
The problem is I can't quantify the amount as I need to replace the screen to view it in each situation, so no (easy) way to compare side by side.
I don't stay in regular touch with the only other (physical) person I known that has a D800 to compare side by side.
If I were to guess, I'd say that the difference between S type(a Canon screen type) and a stock screen could be as much as 2 Ev darker than a stock screen with an f/2.8 lens fitted.
I have noted before that I have a Katzeye(with Optibright) for my D300 and it was notably brighter than the stock D300 screen!
And that there is a major difference between D300+Katzeye and the D800+Stype screen. More than 2Ev.
Curious as to which DSLR that didn't display a focus square during tracking?
If Nikon, I'd have guessed that from the D300 and onwards all Nikon cameras capable of tracking also show the focus square as you track with it.
And remember the D300 is a 10 yo camera now.
D300's AF tracking is very hit and miss if the subject being tracked is not massively obvious from it's surroundings. D800 is a lot better in holding the subject.
Both those cameras DO show the AF square in use for AF tracking tho.
Arthur, this is what I have in mind: http://www.dpreview.com/news/0467323998/cp-2016-features-you-need-to-know-about-on-the-nikon-d5-d500?slide=5 (http://www.dpreview.com/news/0467323998/cp-2016-features-you-need-to-know-about-on-the-nikon-d5-d500?slide=5). The D5 can do it but not the D500.
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Arthur, this is what I have in mind: http://www.dpreview.com/news/0467323998/cp-2016-features-you-need-to-know-about-on-the-nikon-d5-d500?slide=5 (http://www.dpreview.com/news/0467323998/cp-2016-features-you-need-to-know-about-on-the-nikon-d5-d500?slide=5). The D5 can do it but not the D500.
Even D7100 will show the tracking point in 3D tracking mode. I think there is a misunderstanding -- what they are likely writing about is the red light on the tracking/selected point, which only flash up on D7100 (and possibly D500), while the tracking point is still marked by the LCD overlay in the viewfinder. In 9-point mode (on D7100) only the selected point is marked.
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Even D7100 will show the tracking point in 3D tracking mode. I think there is a misunderstanding -- what they are likely writing about is the red light on the tracking/selected point, which only flash up on D7100 (and possibly D500), while the tracking point is still marked by the LCD overlay in the viewfinder. In 9-point mode (on D7100) only the selected point is marked.
Maybe, it's two years since I owned a DSLR. I find the feedback from a Sony mirrorless much better.
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The problem is I can't quantify the amount as I need to replace the screen to view it in each situation, so no (easy) way to compare side by side.
If you have, or can borrow/rent a spot meter, it is easy to compare the relative brightness of focusing screens. The measured results may not completely agree with one's own visual perception, but it is an empirical measurement that's easy to make.
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Or simply use another camera (typically with a small lens/sensor more similar to that of an eye) to photograph the viewfinder image in manual exposure mode on a fixed target.
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If you have, or can borrow/rent a spot meter, it is easy to compare the relative brightness of focusing screens. The measured results may not completely agree with one's own visual perception, but it is an empirical measurement that's easy to make.
When I measured the difference between Katzeye modded D300 and FocusScreenDotCom(FSDC) S-type screen, I used two f/2.8 lenses and stopped them down to achieve observable parity. To help with balance, I re did the test with the lenses attached to the other respective body.
It was about 2-3Ev difference in favour of the Katzeye(Optibright) D300 combo over the S-Type.
(actually can't remember exactly, but about that difference)
The test procedure was with both cameras up to each eye in portrait orientation at the same time(ie. stereo photography style! :p) looking at the same silver covered wall covering.
I'm sure that a std D800 vf is brighter than a std D300 vf too.
In the end it doesn't matter anyhow, as I've convinced myself to try a K3 screen for myself too .. soon.
I probably have the ability to shoot through the vf with a lens of some type in my collection(using the bellows) .. but it's probably going to be a wasted effort due to the different cameras needed to do the shoot through anyhow.
I have shot through the vf with my phone.. very easy to do .. but exposure can't be forced to equalize apparent brightness.
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its sad that katzeye went belly up :o :o :o
some people say that optibrite has some problems with slower lenses.
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its sad that katzeye went belly up :o :o :o
some people say that optibrite has some problems with slower lenses.
Darkening with f/5.6 and slower lenses.
Tried the 18-105VR lens on the D300 to check this and I can't remember that it was a 'problem' as such.
On a plain white wall zoomed in from 18mm(f/3.5) to 105mm(f/5.6) there is a bit of darkening in the vf .. but not a problem.
Still much brighter than the D800 with S-type screen tho.
If there are any other issues9eg. metering, as they say they may be) with the Optibright treatment I can't say I notice them.
500/8 definitely shows darkening tho .. but the blackout of the focus aides is still not an issue.
I've only ever seen focus aides issues from about f/11(slightly) to f/16(proper blackout) ..
Like you said .. shame about them going out of business .. and more to the point, that no one else took up the challenge to keep the screens in production!
ps. and from my understanding, they didn't go belly up in the traditional sense .. there was a human factor involved .. such as a sickness or death or something that caused the closure.
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Perhaps focusingscreen.com could be convinced to also offer the FM-3a B-3 screens, since they already offer the K3 screens?
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Perhaps focusingscreen.com could be convinced to also offer the FM-3a B-3 screens, since they already offer the K3 screens?
This is something I'd like to see.
Addendum: I sent them such a message using their 'Contact Us' internal message form.
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Apparently they run a limited gamut of focusing screens. Sourced either from Canon or Nikon. For my Df, I had the option of several Canon screens, including the "S" all matte kind, and a few split image/microprism versions (from F6, FM-3a).
The "S" Canon screen is uniformly described as very dark, but few if any reviews say it is coarse-grained which really is the most important aspect. Thus my choice of the K-3 was easy.
After having used the K-3 in my Df for some days, I'm in general happy with it. Matrix metering works well enough, centre-weighted is generally good although a small global adjustment improves the situation, and spot metering is more erratic no doubt due to interference with the split image and whether microprisms blacken out. For the really fast (up to f/2) lenses, spot metering can be trusted, thereafter, it's more a hit or miss affair.
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I'm contemplating a focus screen in my D800 primarily for the sake of using the 35mm f/1.4 AI-s as focus can be hit and miss for me with this lens. However I use AFS f/2.8 zoom lenses as much if not more than manual focus lenses, would a focus screen such as the K-3 negatively impact using AFS lenses?
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The choice of focusing screen *should not* affect the auto focus system in any way, since the AF system resides below the main mirror, and therefore ahead of the focusing screen, in the anatomy of the [Nikon DSLR]camera.