NikonGear'23

Gear Talk => Lens Talk => Topic started by: Michael Erlewine on September 15, 2020, 16:23:37

Title: Rodenstock APO Ronar 150mm f/9
Post by: Michael Erlewine on September 15, 2020, 16:23:37
Here is my first subject (Datura inoxia), a poisonous plant from the southwest. from a new large-format lens, the Rodenstock APO Ronar 150mm f/9. This is taken with the Nikon Z7 on the Cambo Actus Mini-B View-Camera.

The APO Ronar is a “Process Lens,” meaning it is a lens without a shutter which give a flat field of focus and is often used for copy work or macro photography. I would be using it for the later.

I find this a wickedly sharp lens and they are going for just a couple or a few hundred dollars, which is amazing to me. I am still looking for what’s wrong with it, but so far have not found anything.

Datura inoxia (Jimson weed) is a very poisonous plant (all parts of it) and is a powerful hallucinogen. Here one of its seed pods, having broken open, sheds seeds, only a few of which ingested would act as a powerful psychedelic.

My trip days are over, so I grow it for the beauty of the flowers (Moonflower) and the exquisite scent, reminding of the classic Night-Blooming Cereus from the Middle East, which I have been growing for maybe 40 years.

Here are a couple more with the Ronar.
Title: Re: Rodenstock APO Ronar 150mm f/9
Post by: pluton on September 15, 2020, 18:53:57
Beautiful shot, Michael.  Aside from the well-done deep focus, the lighting is excellent.
Title: Re: Rodenstock APO Ronar 150mm f/9
Post by: Seapy on September 16, 2020, 01:17:15
Thank you Michael, are those straight single exposures or some stacking?  The rendering is superb.

I have just popped for one, very modestly priced in Germany.  My first APO lens!

Now I need an adaptor mount for the PB4...  Another lathe project.  ;D
Title: Re: Rodenstock APO Ronar 150mm f/9
Post by: Erik Lund on September 16, 2020, 09:57:24
Excellent! Very detailed even with these relative small jpg files
Title: Re: Rodenstock APO Ronar 150mm f/9
Post by: Michael Erlewine on September 16, 2020, 10:33:43
These images are stacked using Zerene Stacker, for those interested.

Another Ronar image.
Title: Re: Rodenstock APO Ronar 150mm f/9
Post by: Jakov Minić on September 16, 2020, 10:45:16
Dear Michael, these are spectacular!
Thanks for sharing!
Title: Re: Rodenstock APO Ronar 150mm f/9
Post by: Michael Erlewine on September 16, 2020, 19:23:57
Here are a couple more,using the Ronar. The nasturtium flower (red-orange) is a very difficult flower to photograph, mostly because red is hard to get right. The Ronar did a good job of it.
Title: Re: Rodenstock APO Ronar 150mm f/9
Post by: Toby on September 17, 2020, 03:01:06
There seem to be a bunch of APO process lenses from various companies floating around. I have not tried any, but perhaps there are truly bargains to be had if you don't mind a limited maximum aperture. I would like to point out that all cacti are New World plants, from the Americas. There are euphorbias from Africa, but they are a different thing entirely, while sometimes superficially resembling cacti. That they are grown all over the world is not in question, but they all hail originally from this side of the world.
Title: Re: Rodenstock APO Ronar 150mm f/9
Post by: Nasos Kosmas on September 17, 2020, 07:55:52
The nasturtium flower (red-orange) is a very difficult flower to photograph, mostly because red is hard to get right.
Michael excellent job!
This red-orange or other red-purple a very hard to get and it’s a mater of sensor
I thing Pentax or Fuji x-trans do a better job on this color
Title: Re: Rodenstock APO Ronar 150mm f/9
Post by: Tristin on September 17, 2020, 22:42:52
Stellar results, could the first image be rendered better?!?
Title: Re: Rodenstock APO Ronar 150mm f/9
Post by: Akira on September 18, 2020, 00:27:50
Love the morning glory glowing in the center!
Title: Re: Rodenstock APO Ronar 150mm f/9
Post by: Michael Erlewine on September 18, 2020, 01:02:27
Stellar results, could the first image be rendered better?!?

Not sure which you mean by "first." If you mean the shot of the Datura seed pods that was the very first shot with the lens, perior.  Here is on a little more finished looking.
Title: Re: Rodenstock APO Ronar 150mm f/9
Post by: Dr Klaus Schmitt on September 18, 2020, 09:21:30
Excellent shots Michael,seems to be a very capable lens!
That yellow flower is Rudbeckia flower from what I can see,
most likey Rudbeckia fulgida (it has a hidden UV pattern,
hence why I know it well), native to the US Midwest,
especially found in Prairie areas of Illinois.
Title: Re: Rodenstock APO Ronar 150mm f/9
Post by: bobfriedman on September 18, 2020, 16:17:46
Echinacea perhaps?
Title: Re: Rodenstock APO Ronar 150mm f/9
Post by: Michael Erlewine on September 19, 2020, 12:10:35
Echinacea perhaps?

Not Echinacea.
Title: Re: Rodenstock APO Ronar 150mm f/9
Post by: Gerhard2006 on September 19, 2020, 17:28:09
If you’re looking for Rodenstock process lenses they also made an Apo Geragon and they were not a four element lens like the Ronar but they were six element lenses and I think they were better corrected and Apo as well. I picked up a 240 F9 version of the lens and it is extremely sharp. They also made a 150 F9 and a 210 F9 I believe as well, all six elements. The sixth element version also had a larger image circle then the four element RONAR.
Title: Re: Rodenstock APO Ronar 150mm f/9
Post by: Gerhard2006 on September 19, 2020, 21:05:00
Regardless of which lens was used though you’r  photography is always stellar you really raise the bar beyond what most most of us can ever reach thank you for sharing. Gerry
Title: Re: Rodenstock APO Ronar 150mm f/9
Post by: JohnMM on September 19, 2020, 23:32:03
Echinacea perhaps?

Maybe. Rudbeckia and Echinacea are sometimes used interchangeably, although with varying degrees of authority. For example a common Rudbeckia cultivar, R. fulgida var. sullivantii 'Goldsturm', which closely resembles the yellow flower in this thread,  is also known as Echinacea 'Yellow Storm'.
Title: Re: Rodenstock APO Ronar 150mm f/9
Post by: dickb on September 20, 2020, 14:16:16
If you’re looking for Rodenstock process lenses they also made an Apo Geragon and they were not a four element lens like the Ronar but they were six element lenses and I think they were better corrected and Apo as well. I picked up a 240 F9 version of the lens and it is extremely sharp. They also made a 150 F9 and a 210 F9 I believe as well, all six elements. The sixth element version also had a larger image circle then the four element RONAR.

If you are looking for these 6 element lenses, the exact name is Apo Gerogon. Schneider made similar process lenses named Claron (in C- D- G- and Repro-Claron varieties). And there are the Nikon Apo Nikkor lenses of course, 4 element process lenses like the f/9 180mm up to a massive f/14 1780mm lens.
Title: Re: Rodenstock APO Ronar 150mm f/9
Post by: Michael Erlewine on September 20, 2020, 18:14:44
I found and order a copy of the APO Geragon and am anxious to see it perform.

The APO Ronar is not to shabby. Here is one I took a few minutes ago with the Ronar of Tansy.
Title: Re: Rodenstock APO Ronar 150mm f/9
Post by: Seapy on September 22, 2020, 00:42:05
Very nice Michael.

My copy arrived today, #3562376.  It appears perfect to me, it's tiny. It is presented in a lovely little box made of Beech with an aperture mask set and a beautiful leather lens cap with gold embossed "G Rodenstock" and their trademark.  Almost too nice to use!

I have removed a soft aluminium collar which had been pushed onto the mount but this has not damaged the mount.

Can anyone tell me what the mount thread is please?  It is 26.38mm or 1.038 of an inch over the threads, the pitch appears to be 0.5mm.  There are only two or three actual threads present, it appears to have been made that way.  The plain unthreaded part of the mount is 20.55mm in diameter. The length of the mount boss is 6.5mm.

Is this a standard mount, if so what is it called, I don't fancy cutting a .5mm pitch thread...
Title: Re: Rodenstock APO Ronar 150mm f/9
Post by: Michael Erlewine on September 22, 2020, 00:58:49
Copal #0
Title: Re: Rodenstock APO Ronar 150mm f/9
Post by: Toby on September 22, 2020, 03:21:07
Beautiful shots, and seemingly a very capable lens.
Title: Re: Rodenstock APO Ronar 150mm f/9
Post by: Seapy on September 22, 2020, 08:10:31
Copal #0

Thank you Michael.
Title: Re: Rodenstock APO Ronar 150mm f/9
Post by: Andrew on September 22, 2020, 12:04:52
Quick and dirty...
Z6, PB-6, PN-11 etc. etc, Apo-Geragon 210/9, hand held...



Title: Re: Rodenstock APO Ronar 150mm f/9
Post by: Erik Lund on September 22, 2020, 12:33:13
Very rustic lens adapter  :o ;D Super!
Title: Re: Rodenstock APO Ronar 150mm f/9
Post by: Andrew on September 22, 2020, 12:41:08
Yes, piece of flooring in our kitchen....
Title: Re: Rodenstock APO Ronar 150mm f/9
Post by: Michael Erlewine on September 22, 2020, 14:01:35
Quick and dirty...
Z6, PB-6, PN-11 etc. etc, Apo-Geragon 210/9, hand held...

From the APO Geragon 150/9
Title: Re: Rodenstock APO Ronar 150mm f/9
Post by: Hugh_3170 on September 25, 2020, 03:58:58
Well it is a lens board is it not?  LOL  ;D

Yes, piece of flooring in our kitchen....
Title: Re: Rodenstock APO Ronar 150mm f/9
Post by: Gerhard2006 on September 25, 2020, 04:18:19
So Michael, now that you have both lenses. How do they compare? It’s hard for us to compare at this resolution. Are you happy with your new acquisition?
Title: Re: Rodenstock APO Ronar 150mm f/9
Post by: Michael Erlewine on September 25, 2020, 09:15:01
So Michael, now that you have both lenses. How do they compare? It’s hard for us to compare at this resolution. Are you happy with your new acquisition?

The Ronar is sperb. The Germinar is also great, but (IMO) more like a very special portrait lens. I requires a very long bellows, which I have. I have to use it some more, but  it is a unique lens and will have to be worked with for a while for e to figure out what is best for it.
Title: Re: Rodenstock APO Ronar 150mm f/9
Post by: Gerhard2006 on September 25, 2020, 18:43:44
I think the Germanar was a different post was it not that is a 150/8 I was asking how you liked the Apo Geragon 150 F9 that you purchased?
Title: Re: Rodenstock APO Ronar 150mm f/9
Post by: Michael Erlewine on September 25, 2020, 19:35:13
I think the Germanar was a different post was it not that is a 150/8 I was asking how you liked the Apo Geragon 150 F9 that you purchased?

Both are great.
Title: Re: Rodenstock APO Ronar 150mm f/9
Post by: Gerhard2006 on September 26, 2020, 22:31:04
Just wondering Michael, I have never used Zerene stacker before so I’m wondering how long does it take for it to render say 30 images into one? Is it a long process? I guess it depends on your sensor and how big your files are I guess but do you shoot raw files or just JPEG‘s. The Raw files would be pointless I guess on the Internet? The images you produce are always so sharp and you can blow them up in the screen and they still remain sharp. Do you use Stack shot or something similar to make the increments of your focussing even? Thanks in advance Gerry
Title: Re: Rodenstock APO Ronar 150mm f/9
Post by: Michael Erlewine on September 26, 2020, 22:52:59
Just wondering Michael, I have never used Zerene stacker before so I’m wondering how long does it take for it to render say 30 images into one? Is it a long process? I guess it depends on your sensor and how big your files are I guess but do you shoot raw files or just JPEG‘s. The Raw files would be pointless I guess on the Internet? The images you produce are always so sharp and you can blow them up in the screen and they still remain sharp. Do you use Stack shot or something similar to make the increments of your focussing even? Thanks in advance Gerry

 I don't use Stackshot, although I have one. I shoot only raw NEFs...then convert them to TIFs to stack using Zerene Stacker. I have a fairly fast PC with 64 RAM and2 GPUS. It takes a while to process, so I do other things. If I had a slow computer, it would take a long time to run the three-passes Zeren Stacker likes to do.
Title: Re: Rodenstock APO Ronar 150mm f/9
Post by: Michael Erlewine on September 26, 2020, 23:51:59
Here is one for you experts:

The literature on this lens says it is sharpest 1:1 at f/22. Well, I did not shoot at 1:1 and seldom do. I shot the following three images.

I shot stacked images at:

f/16 (4 images Stacked)
f/22 (4images Stacked)
f/9 (106 images Stacked)

F/16 was sharper than f/22…and f/9 (stacked was much sharper than either f/16 and f/22.

All stacked. The f/16 and f/22 were what I call a short stack, an image taken of each of the four main flowers. The image marked “Stacked” was 106 images stacked.

There is nowill hav question that the stacked image (106 layers) at f/9 is sharper that the 4-stacked images and f/16 and f/22.

And so, my question is that if I am not going to shoot at 1:1, there is no point in not using the lens wide open (or nearly so), correct?


Images as from camera, not adjustments mace Nikon Z7

You will have to read the label under each image.
Title: Re: Rodenstock APO Ronar 150mm f/9
Post by: Jack Dahlgren on September 27, 2020, 02:56:44
If you are happy with 106 shots instead of 4, then I agree, f/9 looks great. Sharpness and even coverage across the frame is why f/22 would be important, but you are just using a small amount of the coverage.
Title: Re: Rodenstock APO Ronar 150mm f/9
Post by: Michael Erlewine on September 27, 2020, 03:20:57
If you are happy with 106 shots instead of 4, then I agree, f/9 looks great. Sharpness and even coverage across the frame is why f/22 would be important, but you are just using a small amount of the coverage.


To be clear, it is not the 106 shots at f/9. It could have been four at f/9 and that would be clear as well. As I understand it, f/16 and especially f/22 diffraction is setting in, IMO. Perhaps at 1:1, the lens is at some peak, but not at the lower magnification that I use. I am just experimenting, always.
Title: Re: Rodenstock APO Ronar 150mm f/9
Post by: KarlMera on September 27, 2020, 13:44:56
At 1:1 the eff. aperture is 18, not 9, an the diffraction is setting in.
Title: Re: Rodenstock APO Ronar 150mm f/9
Post by: Gerhard2006 on September 27, 2020, 17:30:58
The Apo Ronar 150/9 was designed for 6 x 9 cm negative size and so F 22 on that size of film would yield you sharpness right across the frame. All these lenses  designated Apo lenses are for large-format cameras for much larger image circles than what is needed for 35 mm. Process lenses were designed for the graphic arts industry to make three separate colour negatives for use in offset printing. But these lenses tend to be free of colour fringing which makes them good for general photography as well but shooting into the sun they might tend to flare a bit because they were  not designed for general photography. You’re  working with studio lighting or controlled  lighting which is perfect for this application. The Apo Garagon  lens you bought would probably cover 4 x 5 inches negative and so F 22 on that large an image would be needed to cover that negative. The six element lens allowed a photographer to move the lens around with tilt and shift movements.  So you would need the bigger image circle for this purpose.
Title: Re: Rodenstock APO Ronar 150mm f/9
Post by: Birna Rørslett on September 27, 2020, 18:15:06
To answer the question asked earlier by Gerhard2006 (time for Zerene Stacker to merge 30 frames): depending on your computer, it's a matter of a few minutes (applying Pmax and Dmax routines). I spend more time setting up and shooting the stacks, since I typically need 2-20X magnification and the steps before shooting commences can take significant time to complete. I batch process the NEFs and stack  on dedicated computer(s) in the network, so can work in parallel if need be.
Title: Re: Rodenstock APO Ronar 150mm f/9
Post by: Michael Erlewine on September 27, 2020, 23:42:39
Another photo just taken with the Ronar 150mm...complete with a crab spider.