NikonGear'23
Gear Talk => Lens Talk => Topic started by: Wally on June 05, 2020, 04:42:49
-
Looking at this group shot I am wondering about the lens on the far right - is this the upcoming 200mm FL version???
D6 with 120-300mm
from left to right: 80-400, 180-400, 200-400, 800, 600, 500, 400, 300, and ???
Logically it would be the 200mm VRII (which I own) but the lens shown exhibits the updated FL design!
Wondering???
-
Difficult to say, little resolution, cant read the digits, the lens looks like a typical FL- Design but very different compared to the current 200/2 VRII - so does the 400/2,8 FL compared to its precedessor. The 300/2,8 appear not to be FL but the current version.
The fourth in the row from the right side is NOT the 500/4 FL (uodate: my assumption is wrong)
i am not sure with the 200-400/4 either
-
I would rather bet on the 500mm f/5.6E PF.
-
I would rater bet on the 500mm f/5.6E PF.
That sounds reasonable. I second that
-
That sounds reasonable. I second that
Agree 500 PF
The original webpage may show more details in this image.
This needs the link (?)
-
I found the pic on seveal Webpages, including nikonrumors but all with very limited resolution
BTW the 300 mm f/4 PF is missing!
-
Difficult to say, little resolution, cant read the digits, the lens looks like a typical FL- Design but very different compared to the current 200/2 VRII - so does the 400/2,8 FL compared to its precedessor. The 300/2,8 appear not to be FL but the current version.
The fourth in the row from the right side is NOT the 500/4 FL
i am not sure with the 200-400/4 either
My bad, didn't think about the 500mm PF >:(
Concur with the 300mm being the AF-S VRII but don't agree with your interpretations of the 500 and 200-400mm as shown.
No doubt due to unique features on the lens barrel.
-
In a recent review of the D6, It was stated that a Icon could be witnessed in the Viewfinder showing that a Lens with a built in TC had the TC Engaged for use.
The assumption was that this Icon was a excessive information when only one Nikon lens has the built in TC feature.
Is there more built in TC Lenses to be released ??
-
So these super-teles are only made in F-mount.
Is that because you can't benefit from larger mount / closer distance to sensor when designing super teles?
It may also be cost…..that there is not a market for these in Z-mount yet.
-
Concur with the 300mm being the AF-S VRII but don't agree with your interpretations of the 500 and 200-400mm as shown.
I have to correct my statement regarding the 500, I was mislead by another foto, in fact it suits and its logical to place the 500 at that place, which is also valid for the 200-400 where I expressed my uncertainty
-
Is there more built in TC Lenses to be released ??
Nobody knows.
My question is: does it make sense, and for which additional lenses would it make sense?
I dont think that it would be favorable to have Nikon make is whole supertele-lens Lineup TC versions -and I dont expect them to double the series to have one version of each lens with built in TC and one.
The advantages of TC: more versatility, dedicated Teleconverter is better than external
The disadvantages: it makes the lens more heavier and complicated and more expensive and its there even when you do not need TC
-
So these super-teles are only made in F-mount.
Is that because you can't benefit from larger mount / closer distance to sensor when designing super teles?
It may also be cost…..that there is not a market for these in Z-mount yet.
Currently there are only F-Mount superteles, that might change in the future. The advantage of larger mount in this range is not as high as it is with shorter focal length
Nikon is currently still at the beginning of rolling out Z-mount lineup and the priorities are evidently not in the long range
The F-mount Superteles easily can be used on Z-Cameras with FTZ so there is one lineup for two camera systems. Dont forget Superteles are expensive so is their construction and development, it costs more efforts to run two supertele series in parallel - take a 600/4 lens compared to a say 24/1,8 lens.
-
This is my 500mm f/5.6E PF, for comparison purposes:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49975911023_da3d48a58d_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2j9cBdk)
Nikkor 500mm f/5.6E PF (https://flic.kr/p/2j9cBdk)
-
Like Meper, i'm also curious.
Currently there are only F-Mount superteles, that might change in the future.
When you say superteles, there arent even any telephotos in the Z mount lineup.
I don't count zooms as an alternative (and Nikon's recent zoom teles are way outside my budget)
-
Like Meper, i'm also curious.
When you say superteles, there arent even any telephotos in the Z mount lineup.
I don't count zooms as an alternative (and Nikon's recent zoom teles are way outside my budget)
I'd considered the Z-mount 85 mm f/1,8 S as (slight) tele
-
Do you think the "PF" principle will be the new standard for super-teles to make them more compact or do you make some optical compromises using this principle so the real "top-notch" prof. grade super-teles will still be made "old-school"?
-
Do you think the "PF" principle will be the new standard for super-teles to make them more compact or do you make some optical compromises using this principle so the real "top-notch" prof. grade super-teles will still be made "old-school"?
Yes
Neither will go away.
-
I agree that there will be two lines remaining - but the old school has changed and is about to change (FL elements, SR elements, new coatings, maybe we will see sapphire glass, more lightweight chassis)
I see it a bit similar to Canons DO that remained limited (400/4 and 70-300/4,5-5,6 -are there more?) and did not replace the superfast high grade lineup
-
I'd considered the Z-mount 85 mm f/1,8 S as (slight) tele
Technically, maybe Wolfgang....
But if I want to shoot sports or wildlife, when does anyone think Nikon will release "S" versions of the tools for the job?
Nothing other than zooms yet indicated
-
As i am operating D4S, D500, D850 and Z6 (amongst others) I'd recommend taking a SLR when shooting sports or wildlife. And there is plenty of superb F-mount tools out there that can be operated on a Z as well without compatibiliy restrictions via FTZ adapter
we have the Z-mounted 70-200/2,8 S already and there will be more - be patient. Current situatoin has become completely unpredictable due to foreseeable and unforeseeable consequences of pandemic driven economic crisis and severe impacts on an already shrinking market.
Technically everything beyound 50-60 mm up to 200 mm is considered as Tele lens and everything from 300 and above supertele, so 85 /1,8 is tele but of course by no way a sufficient tool for sports and wildlife which requires supertele. Given the Z-roadmap a 100-400 S and 200-600 have been announced, both are in the supertele range - no prime of course but the same goes for the 80-400, 180-400, 200-400 and 200-500 F-mount lenses. And BTW there is no 200-600 lens in the F-mount lineup if its good it may be a winner. To me this strategy is right, prosumers are preferring telezooms and the number of those who aquire FL-type primes is limited.
Personally I might buy the 200-600 but I am not willing to add another 800mm f/5,6 in Z-mount.
-
Technically, maybe Wolfgang....
But if I want to shoot sports or wildlife, when does anyone think Nikon will release "S" versions of the tools for the job?
Nothing other than zooms yet indicated
The benefit of short register distance for mirrorless is primarily recognized with short focal lengths. Telephoto designs are likely the same for F and Z mount. We also know that Nikon's autofocus for DSLRs is currently faster than mirrorless. So I'm speculating that they countinue with Tele and super Tele in F mount. Z users can use the adapter.
-
I wonder if a Z super-tele could benefit from having a larger rear element to have the light rays at 90 degree on sensor also in the corners?
Maybe a Z super-tele could also be faster if it is designed with shorter register distance?
-
A larger mount could make possible telephotos with less mechanical vignetting into the corners, but I don't think this has been a serious problem with the F-mount.
I don't see how the shorter register distance would make faster super-teles possible, the flange distance is not greatly relevant for telphotos. Nikon already has fast telephotos for F-mount such as 400/2.8, 200/2 and the old AIS 300/2, I don't think there is much demand for faster (bigger, heavier, more expensive) lenses in this segment. If anything I suspect the trend is towards slower super-teles due to the improved performance at high ISOs of modern cameras - the 500/5.6PF being a good example of this.
-
I don't see how the shorter register distance would make faster super-teles possible, the flange distance is not greatly relevant for telphotos. Nikon already has fast telephotos for F-mount such as 400/2.8, 200/2 and the old AIS 300/2, I don't think there is much demand for faster (bigger, heavier, more expensive) lenses in this segment. If anything I suspect the trend is towards slower super-teles due to the improved performance at high ISOs of modern cameras - the 500/5.6PF being a good example of this.
As you pointed out previously, the shorter flange back could rather be beneficial to the designs of teleconverters and focus reducers.
-
Oh yes, forgot about that :o :)
-
A larger mount could make possible telephotos with less mechanical vignetting into the corners, but I don't think this has been a serious problem with the F-mount.
I don't see how the shorter register distance would make faster super-teles possible, the flange distance is not greatly relevant for telphotos. Nikon already has fast telephotos for F-mount such as 400/2.8, 200/2 and the old AIS 300/2, I don't think there is much demand for faster (bigger, heavier, more expensive) lenses in this segment. If anything I suspect the trend is towards slower super-teles due to the improved performance at high ISOs of modern cameras - the 500/5.6PF being a good example of this.
I rather second this. In my small world of car racing competition, ML cameras remain an exception: some Fuji, very few Sony, and no Nikon Z as far as I could notice. My most used lens in 2019, was the 500mm f/5.6E PF, with over 11’000 pictures taken.
-
Looking at this group shot I am wondering about the lens on the far right - is this the upcoming 200mm FL version???
D6 with 120-300mm
from left to right: 80-400, 180-400, 200-400, 800, 600, 500, 400, 300, and ???
Logically it would be the 200mm VRII (which I own) but the lens shown exhibits the updated FL design!
Wondering???
IMO the two lenses on the right are 500pf and 300pf
-
IMO the two lenses on the right are 500pf and 300pf
Frank, I don’t think so: the second from the right has a filter slot which (see the button) the 500mm hasn’t. ;)
-
OK, my bet is that the one on far right is the 300f4 PF and third from right is the 500 f5.6 PF
https://www.downgra.de/Geek/Nikon-500mm-f56E-PF/
Handled them both when Z6 and Z7 introduced in Goa but 300 on the Z7 and 500 on D5. Deciding if to by 300 PF or AF-P 70-300 or see what is coming. Cash flow and arrival of Monsoon means no hurry ;)
-
The one on far right is having the cone form, the 500 PF has and the 300 PF is lacking - and the 300 PF is smaller
-
Looking at this group shot I am wondering about the lens on the far right - is this the upcoming 200mm FL version???
D6 with 120-300mm
from left to right: 80-400, 180-400, 200-400, 800, 600, 500, 400, 300, and ???
Logically it would be the 200mm VRII (which I own) but the lens shown exhibits the updated FL design!
Wondering???
Wally's original post was correct, except the last one is the 500/5.6PF. A 200/2 of any type will be shorter and fatter.
It seems a little odd to include the 200-400 when it is surely superseded by the 180-400, but not show the 200/2.
-
It seems a little odd to include the 200-400 when it is surely superseded by the 180-400, but not show the 200/2.
Indeed. I'd say the usual inconsistent marketing :'( Also towards the shorter focal lengths why not showing the 300PF? It's unique and apparently selling well (> 40k units)
-
It is clear to me that Nikon is not including lenses that are not yet even announced on a marketing pic like the given. The 300 PF should have been included.
The 200/2 is a superheavy superfast lens and definitely belongs to the "big-glass" fraction but its focal length of 200 mm is not supertele maybe this was the reason for not including it (or the fact that it is listed as discontinued and there is no replacement so far)
It easiliy takes converters (better than other lenses) and then reaches supertele focal length so it should have been included here imho
-
Frank, I don’t think so: the second from the right has a filter slot which (see the button) the 500mm hasn’t. ;)
true. could the second be a zoom?
-
true. could the second be a zoom?
There is just one focus ring, not a focus plus zoom ring
and it looks like the 300/2,8 VR II
-
Do you think the "PF" principle will be the new standard for super-teles to make them more compact or do you make some optical compromises using this principle so the real "top-notch" prof. grade super-teles will still be made "old-school"?
PF is used for the lightest weight, moderate maximum aperture long prime lenses but not for the fastest-aperture lenses nor for zooms as for these the gains from PF would not be as great.
PF introduces some compromises in optical quality and ruggedness. There are other ways of reducing weight in wide-aperture superteles that result in less compromise.
-
So these super-teles are only made in F-mount.
Is that because you can't benefit from larger mount / closer distance to sensor when designing super teles?
It may also be cost…..that there is not a market for these in Z-mount yet.
Optically there is not so much of a drawback in using the F mount for these lenses, and Nikon has better AF for action in their current F-mount cameras. However, there are advantages such as silent high fps photography that may be realized in a future mirrorless camera.
I think Nikon will introduce Z-mount supertele primes at approximately the same time with a flagship sports camera with Z mount.
-
Optically there is not so much of a drawback in using the F mount for these lenses, and Nikon has better AF for action in their current F-mount cameras. However, there are advantages such as silent high fps photography that may be realized in a future mirrorless camera.
I think Nikon will introduce Z-mount supertele primes at approximately the same time with a flagship sports camera with Z mount.
I totally agree. And I am sure ther will be at least one Z-mount lens of this type, when the (lets call it) Z9 will be released maybe even a 120-300/2,8.
Furthermore I wonder whether we see a totally new type of lens or whether it will be a parallel version (like the two 70-200/2,8) versions - either letting the SLR sports photographers in their own rights or trying to force them to switch systems if they want to use the new lens.