NikonGear'23

Images => People, Portraits, Street, PJ & Cityscapes => Topic started by: atpaula on April 16, 2019, 17:11:53

Title: Notre Dame
Post by: atpaula on April 16, 2019, 17:11:53
My views of this wonderful masterpiece.

1
(https://oi1011.photobucket.com/albums/af237/atpaula/atpaula021/aDSC_2501_zpsdcsdpmzd.jpg) (http://s1011.photobucket.com/user/atpaula/media/atpaula021/aDSC_2501_zpsdcsdpmzd.jpg.html)



2
(https://oi1011.photobucket.com/albums/af237/atpaula/atpaula021/aD4S_3120_zpsxgqu57mj.jpg) (http://s1011.photobucket.com/user/atpaula/media/atpaula021/aD4S_3120_zpsxgqu57mj.jpg.html)



3
(https://oi1011.photobucket.com/albums/af237/atpaula/atpaula021/aD4S_3117_zpsuv0clpax.jpg) (http://s1011.photobucket.com/user/atpaula/media/atpaula021/aD4S_3117_zpsuv0clpax.jpg.html)



4
(https://oi1011.photobucket.com/albums/af237/atpaula/atpaula021/aD4S_4841_zpslz5ew9ay.jpg) (http://s1011.photobucket.com/user/atpaula/media/atpaula021/aD4S_4841_zpslz5ew9ay.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Notre Dame
Post by: Pistnbroke on April 16, 2019, 20:15:12
No doubt your photos inspired by the fire ...I think they should knock it down and spend all the millions on hospitals /homes and schools.
The pope has admitted these places are only a home for child abusers and perverts ..IMHO
Title: Re: Notre Dame
Post by: Birna Rørslett on April 16, 2019, 20:34:05
Well, I advise members to look into the architectural beauty of the construction rather than the people working there. Notre Dame is a World Heritage. Let's focus on that.
Title: Re: Notre Dame
Post by: atpaula on April 16, 2019, 21:25:51
No doubt your photos inspired by the fire ...I think they should knock it down and spend all the millions on hospitals /homes and schools.
The pope has admitted these places are only a home for child abusers and perverts ..IMHO

To demolish this wonderful construction because of some perverts would be a complete victory for evil.

Title: Re: Notre Dame
Post by: Birna Rørslett on April 16, 2019, 21:39:16
Again don't go down this road. This is about the World Heritage and what has been lost.
Title: Re: Notre Dame
Post by: Frank Fremerey on April 16, 2019, 21:50:27
No doubt your photos inspired by the fire ...I think they should knock it down and spend all the millions on hospitals /homes and schools.
The pope has admitted these places are only a home for child abusers and perverts ..IMHO

rotfl
Title: Re: Notre Dame
Post by: Akira on April 16, 2019, 23:31:14
My views of this wonderful masterpiece.

Aguinaldo, this is a beautiful series representing "our lady" bearing under the devastating misfortune.
Title: Re: Notre Dame
Post by: MFloyd on April 16, 2019, 23:49:13
Some pictures from a workshop years ago, not really my creations:

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/32682417357_bdb8d8866b_b.jpg)
SR01

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/33747795688_26d251caba_b.jpg)
SR02

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/46709520665_31c514f425_b.jpg)
SR03

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/47572276642_b28272f2a2_b.jpg)
SR04
Title: Re: Notre Dame
Post by: Airy on April 17, 2019, 06:14:01
Thanks for the nice photos.

I've been working in Paris every now and then for decades, and lastly since 2013. Since I commute more than four hours a day, I have little time to spend on staying after hours to try & get such shots. Now it is too late and I'll have to wait.

The catastrophy was a shock to many friends and relatives, no matter if catholic, christian, or atheist, because everybody sees the world heritage in it (see fer instance the declarations of the Japanese government - many thanks to them). The event was, likewise, a shock to myself and to my far-eastern lady. We spent the whole evening in a depressed mood, although we knew that - fortunately - no human lives were at stake, only fearing for the safety of the fire brigade crew. The French doctrine is to attack the fire from underneath (not with helicopters, sorry Donald), which is effective but risky. Indeed, part of the crew were cooling the building from the inside, until they were evacuated because of the imminent collapse of the spire !!! remindful of WWII, where the yankees were bombing from high altitude, safe from flak, while the brits continued strafing with Hawker Typhoons. Different doctrines.

Many people "bond" somehow with this landmark. In my case it is especially about the main organ, and some its former (Vierne, Cochereau) or current (Latry) organists or assistant organists (Yves Castagnet), and their many recordings, the oldest ones dating back to the thirties (yes, and available on CDs). I could never play it, as this is a privilege reserved for the elite, but assisted a guest organist in his public performance in 1978: given the complexity of the colossus and despite some rudimentary electronic aids, it still took two assistants to pull the stops and turn the pages.

Yesterday, a friend of mine (who happens to be the consultant in charge of the last restoration in 2014) broadcasted that, after an expertise that had to be quick given the unsafe building, the grand organ was relatively unharmed, neither from the heat, nor from the water. What will take most time is to restore its "shrine" : pipe organs, their sound, hence their musical value, cannot easily be separated from the place they are installed in. This is especially true in France, where reverberation times are usually long, and both organs and their music have been adapted to it. This is very different from, say, the US, where most churches are carpeted and reverberation is basically "killed", to the benefit of the understanding of the spoken word. In the latter case, the building does not contribute to shape the sound as much.

Rebuilding the cathedral is not a matter of faith (and, in France, cathedrals are owned by the state). The original builders, carvers, carpenters, etc. are mostly unknown. The disappearance of their works would be their second death. Anyway, the restoration will cost less than couple of stealth fighters that we certainly can spare. And the money of the restoration will go to trades, some of which are at the verge of extinction in this steel-and-concrete world.

But back to photography - do not expect me to send pics in the present state because 1) it makes me sad, and 2) even a quick look is made difficult, as the nearby subway stations are closed for the time being.
Title: Re: Notre Dame
Post by: Frank Fremerey on April 17, 2019, 06:42:53
I am happy the organ could be saved.

I have never been to Paris to visit, only going through it travelling to other places
Title: Re: Notre Dame
Post by: Akira on April 17, 2019, 07:10:27
Luck in bad luck that the organ survived.  I've heard that the weather cock containing the sacred relic was also found in the reparable condition.
Title: Re: Notre Dame
Post by: Airy on April 17, 2019, 07:33:50
Indeed. Funny how people find solace in trifles (me with the organ, other with weathercocks and relics), that's human I guess. More importantly, there were no fatalities, although one fireman (and two policemen, IIRC) was injured. Impressive, where these guys were fighting the equivalent of a 21 hectar forest fire concentrated in a much smaller patch, and to make things worse involving wood that dried since 1220 A.D., from beneath, or climbing on the structure itself, and using 18 hoses plus one robot (that took over the inside intervention after the collapse of the spire). Wow wow wow.
Title: Re: Notre Dame
Post by: Jacques Pochoy on April 17, 2019, 11:01:52
Airy said most of what there is to say...!
Since Monday, I'm in a rush of work as we have admissions exams, mid-semester jurys, and my own studio teaching days ! So I havent been there yet.

I would be cautious about all those "good news" and repair time. I've witnessed the aftermath of a really big fire in Chaumont en Champagne (having to design and build a new building in place of the rubble that was left), in the medieval part of the city. The surrounding walls were of stone work with some blocks of more then a meter large. Those blocks had been "cooked" by the heath of the fire, and I could dig a hole through them with only my nails and hands... We had to support them with a concrete wall.
Of course, there, the fire had been from ground up, while at Notre Dame, it started on the roof. Still the nave stone work should be in the same state, as the upper parts of the facade and some of the upper buttresses !
Building a new roof (depending on the choice of the material, wood, steel, fiber-concrete) could be done quite quickly (several years), but the rehabilitation of the stone work and it's scaffolding, might be much more...
There is also the present scaffolding of 500 tons of steel that should have been soldered by the fire, that needs to get out of the way for a quick solution (canvasses) against rain...

I might have some more technical information in some weeks, as some friends might be on the job !

The school of architecture I teach at, was created by Eugène Viollet-le-duc, the designer of the spire that went down (and most of what people think of original middle ages part), 150 years ago...
Title: Re: Notre Dame
Post by: Frank Fremerey on April 17, 2019, 11:35:25
Luck in bad luck that the organ survived.  I've heard that the weather cock containing the sacred relic was also found in the reparable condition.

when I am burnt out I also hope to find my cock still working (^^)😁😁😁😂😂😂🤣🤣
Title: Re: Notre Dame
Post by: Akira on April 17, 2019, 12:49:37
when I am burnt out I also hope to find my cock still working (^^)😁😁😁😂😂😂🤣🤣

Frank, make sure that your sacred Easter eggs are intact.
Title: Re: Notre Dame
Post by: MFloyd on April 17, 2019, 13:12:30
Frank, make sure that your sacred Easter eggs are intact.

😂🤣 +1
Title: Re: Notre Dame
Post by: rosko on April 17, 2019, 14:13:51
Great pictures here !

Bellow : pictures taken in 2008 with my first digital camera, the D300 and AFD 35-70mm f/2.8.

Title: Re: Notre Dame
Post by: rosko on April 17, 2019, 14:19:22
2.
Title: Re: Notre Dame
Post by: atpaula on April 17, 2019, 15:26:02
Is it my impression or the long openings (windows?) of the top left tower are wider than the ones of the right tower? I checked on other photos and it seems an imperfection of the construction.
Title: Re: Notre Dame
Post by: rosko on April 17, 2019, 16:50:05
Is it my impression or the long openings (windows?) of the top left tower are wider than the ones of the right tower? I checked on other photos and it seems an imperfection of the construction.

You are right. I hadn't notice this imperfection !

I first thought because I had to work on perspectives due the low point of view, but all pictures available show the same.
Title: Re: Notre Dame
Post by: Jacques Pochoy on April 17, 2019, 19:20:35
The view that will stay in my mind...

(https://live.staticflickr.com/7299/10705741233_5686474f61_b.jpg)

D3x and 85mm f/1.8 AF-D
Title: Re: Notre Dame
Post by: rosko on April 17, 2019, 20:44:12
The view that will stay in my mind...

(https://live.staticflickr.com/7299/10705741233_5686474f61_b.jpg)

D3x and 85mm f/1.8 AF-D

Great compo, Jacques !
Title: Re: Notre Dame
Post by: armando_m on April 17, 2019, 22:56:21
The view that will stay in my mind...

....
Excellent image
Title: Re: Notre Dame
Post by: Olivier on April 18, 2019, 01:44:25
10 years ago...
The roof is not visible on those, so I guess I could still make such pictures today. The difference of course is that my daughter has grown up a bit!
Title: Re: Notre Dame
Post by: Hugh_3170 on April 18, 2019, 04:48:22
+1 from me.

From the heart.

Great compo, Jacques !
Title: Re: Notre Dame
Post by: Akira on April 18, 2019, 04:51:46
Kudos to Jacques and Olivier!
Title: Re: Notre Dame
Post by: CS on April 18, 2019, 06:17:13
Kudos to Jacques and Olivier!

And also to Airy for his comments.
Title: Re: Notre Dame
Post by: Fons Baerken on April 18, 2019, 07:55:39
For those that want to be up-to-date

https://www.bfmtv.com/mediaplayer/live-bfm-paris/ (https://www.bfmtv.com/mediaplayer/live-bfm-paris/)

Title: Re: Notre Dame
Post by: Airy on April 18, 2019, 08:24:53
Some great shots indeed ! and a perfect subject for B+W. I remember the times where the facade was all black, after more than one century of coal-burning... quite different an aspect, and a global loss of contrast with all the soot.
Title: Re: Notre Dame
Post by: atpaula on April 18, 2019, 10:38:58
Some great shots indeed ! and a perfect subject for B+W. I remember the times where the facade was all black, after more than one century of coal-burning... quite different an aspect, and a global loss of contrast with all the soot.

Wow Airy, you must be quite an ancient guy!  ;D
I didn´t know Notre Dame was black in the past.
Does anybody has a picture of it?
Title: Re: Notre Dame
Post by: Jacques Pochoy on April 18, 2019, 13:11:28
It wasn't only The Cathedral, but most of Paris ! It was Malraux (Minister of Culture at that time) who brought up laws for every buildings to be cleaned up ! The Marais district was so black, dark and shabby looking with it's narrow streets, that my wife as a child didn't like to visit some family who lived there. It was spooky !
Yep, I'm old enough to remember that, such as the slums where now stands the Pompidou center ! When I was a student, the statistics showed that there was one shower for thirty flats... Since we have had a bathroom boom  :o

That cleaning spur has aggravated all those limestones, getting off the thin calcite protection made by time, air and pollution, rendering those stones very vulnerable to rain and sudden icing. Those "cleaning" works took more then a dozen years on Notre Dame, because of the variety of stone used (several origins), some of those crumbling in sand when cleaned (usually high pressure water with sand). Since then I've always seen scaffolding or works on different parts of the Cathedral, changing stone parts...!

It's quite incredible to realize that in a 30 to 60 years span, an old city can be so changed that most people who lived those changes, have almost forgotten all about them.
For the pictures, H.Cartier-Bresson, Boubat, Lartigue, Dosineau have all recorded those times  8)
Title: Re: Notre Dame
Post by: Jacques Pochoy on April 18, 2019, 13:20:33
The lost spire from Viollet-le-Duc, through a remake of "the kiss"...

(https://live.staticflickr.com/7437/10886308336_ef559587a1_b.jpg)

D3x and 50mm f/1.8 AF-D
Title: Re: Notre Dame
Post by: Jacques Pochoy on April 18, 2019, 13:24:52
The familiar winter walk....

(https://live.staticflickr.com/2863/11778753805_5737764f2b_b.jpg)

D3x and 50mm/f1.8 AF-D
Title: Re: Notre Dame
Post by: Jacques Pochoy on April 18, 2019, 13:28:41
Or in summer...

(https://live.staticflickr.com/7341/12594115964_15e8d6db0f_b.jpg)

D3x and 105mm f/2.8 VR
Title: Re: Notre Dame
Post by: Frank Fremerey on April 18, 2019, 14:21:13
Wow Airy, you must be quite an ancient guy!  ;D
I didn´t know Notre Dame was black in the past.
Does anybody has a picture of it?

most churches were black, some are still black. later came the sandblast treatment and washed many churches to reveal the original stone color...
Title: Re: Notre Dame
Post by: Airy on April 18, 2019, 18:24:41
Wow Airy, you must be quite an ancient guy!  ;D

Vintage 1957.
Title: Re: Notre Dame
Post by: atpaula on April 18, 2019, 19:09:12
Vintage 1957.

1962 here.
When I made this joke with you I thought the cathedral was black back in the 19th century.
I wish I could see a picture of it.
 ;)
Title: Re: Notre Dame
Post by: Airy on April 18, 2019, 22:48:10
No, I think the "blackness" became much worse until the fifties, with coal pollution being replaced by exhaust gas pollution...
Title: Re: Notre Dame
Post by: Olivier on April 19, 2019, 02:30:10
here is an example from the 60s, see how dark the bottom part is, especially:

(http://paris1900.lartnouveau.com/paris04/notre_dame/cpsm/1pcend1.jpg)

this was found here: http://paris1900.lartnouveau.com/paris04/notre_dame/parvis_notre_dame.htm (http://paris1900.lartnouveau.com/paris04/notre_dame/parvis_notre_dame.htm)

and in the 50s:

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/e3/81/d6/e381d663d0c63f53a6cce487d3a16d12.jpg)
Title: Re: Notre Dame
Post by: atpaula on April 19, 2019, 02:53:03
Merci beaucoup Olivier.
Reminds me of the Cathedral of Köln. The first time I visited Köln I was puzzled by the black stone the cathedral was made of. I wondered if it was volcanic. Now I know it´s just coal pollution.
And yes, the "openings" of the left tower are wider than the right ones.
Title: Re: Notre Dame
Post by: michel on April 19, 2019, 08:33:25
Vintage 1957.

Best year indeed. ;D

I was lucky to visit in 1974.

Notre Dame, shot with my new D700, in 2010.
Title: Re: Notre Dame
Post by: Frank Fremerey on April 19, 2019, 09:21:04
Merci beaucoup Olivier.
Reminds me of the Cathedral of Köln. The first time I visited Köln I was puzzled by the black stone the cathedral was made of. I wondered if it was volcanic. Now I know it´s just coal pollution.
And yes, the "openings" of the left tower are wider than the right ones.

coal and Diesel exhaust