NikonGear'23

Gear Talk => Camera Talk => Topic started by: caffeina on September 17, 2018, 15:21:57

Title: D850 Sensor Issue
Post by: caffeina on September 17, 2018, 15:21:57
Hi all, i'll write you because on the end of August 2018 i'll buy that DSLR and i have, since the first shoot, too much red, blue, green and white pixel that comes out randomly since 3" (or longer) exposure. NR long exposure on or off don't change that result and NR hi iso mi too. LTR Lab from Nikon Italy remapped the sensor, but that no solve the problem. Your cam present in low light the same problem or not?

thanks to all for your time
Paolo
Title: Re: D850 Sensor Issue
Post by: Frank Fremerey on September 17, 2018, 16:10:52
I would call Nikon for a replacement
Title: Re: D850 Sensor Issue
Post by: MFloyd on September 17, 2018, 17:40:56
Would be interesting to see some sample pictures.

By the way, do you have the latest firmware version (1.02) ? Version (1.00): "Photos taken with On selected for Long exposure NR would sometimes have increased noise or shadows with a greenish cast."
Title: Re: D850 Sensor Issue
Post by: caffeina on September 18, 2018, 11:49:21
1.02 stock fw and i upload you some photos in next hours. Thanks for the attention.
Title: Re: D850 Sensor Issue
Post by: caffeina on September 19, 2018, 08:51:20
https://imageshack.com/a/img922/9503/dTPmEW.jpg

Title: Re: D850 Sensor Issue
Post by: Erik Lund on September 19, 2018, 09:28:30
Defective camera, send it in for repair.
Title: Re: D850 Sensor Issue
Post by: richardHaw on September 19, 2018, 09:53:21
not good  :o :o :o
Title: Re: D850 Sensor Issue
Post by: MFloyd on September 19, 2018, 12:15:25
https://imageshack.com/a/img922/9503/dTPmEW.jpg

Can you tell me where you find a problem in this picture ? Beside, it's not ideally exposed and processed.
Title: Re: D850 Sensor Issue
Post by: Bjørn Rørslett on September 19, 2018, 12:35:43
Looks like Long Time NR is off.
Title: Re: D850 Sensor Issue
Post by: caffeina on September 19, 2018, 12:51:38
i'll try same shots 2 or more with the same settings for each level and setup of NR ISO and NR long exposure. Changes are poor and hot pixels position is totally random for number or position.
Title: Re: D850 Sensor Issue
Post by: Birna Rørslett on September 19, 2018, 13:56:14
The exposure times aren't excessive, as witnessed by the slight star movement. Thus LNR should be able to cope well with any tendency towards hot pixels.

I still have a feeling that LNR isn't activated.
Title: Re: D850 Sensor Issue
Post by: Erik Lund on September 19, 2018, 14:01:59
Sure if Long Exposure Noise Control is off it can result in the above,,,
Title: Re: D850 Sensor Issue
Post by: caffeina on September 19, 2018, 14:13:36
@birna, i'm sure that LNR is activated because i set it Activated and Deactivated in the same session and, when i shoot with LNR on DSLR shot the dark frame after and result busy for that. I've shot 2 times each photo and the hot pixel change position randomly between the 2 shot in any LNR an ISONR settings
Title: Re: D850 Sensor Issue
Post by: caffeina on September 19, 2018, 14:14:53
if i shot from same position with same settings with Canon 70D hot pixels are 2/3
Title: Re: D850 Sensor Issue
Post by: MFloyd on September 19, 2018, 14:25:04
i'll try same shots 2 or more with the same settings for each level and setup of NR ISO and NR long exposure. Changes are poor and hot pixels position is totally random for number or position.

Maybe a silly statement; but the bright spots you see below, reflected in the water, are not hot spots, but stars.
Title: Re: D850 Sensor Issue
Post by: Birna Rørslett on September 19, 2018, 14:32:12
Reflections must be weaker than the source. And stars are not reflected from solid ground, like the pier in the foreground.
Title: Re: D850 Sensor Issue
Post by: caffeina on September 19, 2018, 14:40:19
no, they change position in all pics and star are with the trail for the 30" of exposure. you can see the trail of stars in the stars. and rusty metal don't reflect
Title: Re: D850 Sensor Issue
Post by: caffeina on September 19, 2018, 14:41:01
if i shot to a wall there are the same mfloyd stars
Title: Re: D850 Sensor Issue
Post by: caffeina on September 19, 2018, 14:44:46
Can you tell me where you find a problem in this picture ? Beside, it's not ideally exposed and processed.

the file isn't post processed. you can find like illuminated dots named pixel
Title: Re: D850 Sensor Issue
Post by: Nasos Kosmas on September 19, 2018, 17:50:59
Check the nef files for this issue
I had a similar issue and I thought hot pixels but  i was wrong, the same spots was only in the jpeg files not in nefs of my D7200
Title: Re: D850 Sensor Issue
Post by: MFloyd on September 19, 2018, 21:43:48
Reflections must be weaker than the source. And stars are not reflected from solid ground, like the pier in the foreground.

Again for me. I looked on my smartphone; screen a bit too small. Thank you for reminding me the aforementioned  principles.
Title: Re: D850 Sensor Issue
Post by: Jack Dahlgren on September 20, 2018, 05:45:44
Reflections must be weaker than the source. And stars are not reflected from solid ground, like the pier in the foreground.

Water is not necessarily a flat plane. A ripple can reflect some of the brighter lights in the scene or even outside the scene. In the foreground most of the bright spots only show in the open part of the grate so could be reflections off the water below.

I’d suggest that the test be made without moving reflective surfaces as they are misleading.
Title: Re: D850 Sensor Issue
Post by: Seapy on September 20, 2018, 07:44:08
Defective camera, send it in for repair.

The 'reflections' are a red herring*.

As Birna states the genuine star trails are distinct and quite different from the 'reflections' which appear on rocks, steel, concrete and even the underside of the handrail...

While there is good depth of focus, all the hot pixels are distinct, clear and sharp, right to the bottom of the image and where there are reflections of structures on the far shore, they are well diffused.

If this camera is new, then it should be returned, if it's used then it may well have already been returned for this fault, but sold again as a pup, in the expectation that not too many people take photographs in the dark...  Except us of course!  For anyone familiar with  cleaning up star trail exposures the difference between a hot pixel and a star is like night and day.


* For readers not familiar with the expression: A red herring is something that misleads or distracts from a relevant or important issue.  It may be either a logical fallacy or a literary device that leads readers or audiences towards a false conclusion.
Title: Re: D850 Sensor Issue
Post by: caffeina on September 20, 2018, 08:16:46
The 'reflections' are a red herring*.

As Birna states the genuine star trails are distinct and quite different from the 'reflections' which appear on rocks, steel, concrete and even the underside of the handrail...

While there is good depth of focus, all the hot pixels are distinct, clear and sharp, right to the bottom of the image and where there are reflections of structures on the far shore, they are well diffused.

If this camera is new, then it should be returned, if it's used then it may well have already been returned for this fault, but sold again as a pup, in the expectation that not too many people take photographs in the dark...  Except us of course!  For anyone familiar with  cleaning up star trail exposures the difference between a hot pixel and a star is like night and day.


* For readers not familiar with the expression: A red herring is something that misleads or distracts from a relevant or important issue.  It may be either a logical fallacy or a literary device that leads readers or audiences towards a false conclusion.

don't change anything, this is the situation
Title: Re: D850 Sensor Issue
Post by: caffeina on September 20, 2018, 08:18:26
The 'reflections' are a red herring*.

As Birna states the genuine star trails are distinct and quite different from the 'reflections' which appear on rocks, steel, concrete and even the underside of the handrail...

While there is good depth of focus, all the hot pixels are distinct, clear and sharp, right to the bottom of the image and where there are reflections of structures on the far shore, they are well diffused.

If this camera is new, then it should be returned, if it's used then it may well have already been returned for this fault, but sold again as a pup, in the expectation that not too many people take photographs in the dark...  Except us of course!  For anyone familiar with  cleaning up star trail exposures the difference between a hot pixel and a star is like night and day.


* For readers not familiar with the expression: A red herring is something that misleads or distracts from a relevant or important issue.  It may be either a logical fallacy or a literary device that leads readers or audiences towards a false conclusion.

it's new and nikon italia don't work in the change direction :(
Title: Re: D850 Sensor Issue
Post by: caffeina on September 20, 2018, 08:19:25
Again for me. I looked on my smartphone; screen a bit too small. Thank you for reminding me the aforementioned  principles.

 :) thanks too you for you time :)
Title: Re: D850 Sensor Issue
Post by: caffeina on September 20, 2018, 08:20:55
Check the nef files for this issue
I had a similar issue and I thought hot pixels but  i was wrong, the same spots was only in the jpeg files not in nefs of my D7200

the jpeg was created only for delivery, NEF is 100MB but the original shot was .nef. I shot RAW only
Title: Re: D850 Sensor Issue
Post by: Birna Rørslett on September 20, 2018, 08:29:59
Water is not necessarily a flat plane. A ripple can reflect some of the brighter lights in the scene or even outside the scene. In the foreground most of the bright spots only show in the open part of the grate so could be reflections off the water below.

I’d suggest that the test be made without moving reflective surfaces as they are misleading.

Even specular reflections will spatially average to less intensity than their source. And parts of the pier should be pretty stationary.
Title: Re: D850 Sensor Issue
Post by: Seapy on September 20, 2018, 09:01:53
it's new and nikon italia don't work in the change direction :(

Are you an NPS member?  In UK they are very good, support I have had is excellent.

UK sale of goods laws are pretty tough, is that not also true in Italy?  This camera is not fit for purpose.
Title: Re: D850 Sensor Issue
Post by: caffeina on September 20, 2018, 09:07:34
Are you an NPS member?  In UK they are very good, support I have had is excellent.

UK sale of goods laws are pretty tough, is that not also true in Italy?  This camera is not fit for purpose.

no, are simple nital vip client
Title: Re: D850 Sensor Issue
Post by: Seapy on September 20, 2018, 09:35:28
Perhaps an approach at management level is justified?

Getting hold of the right person seems the way forward.
Title: Re: D850 Sensor Issue
Post by: caffeina on September 25, 2018, 15:24:14
now the d850 is again in LTR Service (official italy) and i'm waiting for info from them