NikonGear'23

Gear Talk => Lens Talk => Topic started by: richardHaw on September 16, 2016, 09:12:47

Title: New sexy look for the 58mm f/1.4 Nokton
Post by: richardHaw on September 16, 2016, 09:12:47
http://dc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/news/1020401.html

(http://dc.watch.impress.co.jp/img/dcw/docs/1020/401/01.jpg)

come to papa.. :o :o :o
Title: Re: New sexy look for the 58mm f/1.4 Nokton
Post by: Harald on September 16, 2016, 10:14:45
Oh, nice! :) Any Press Release?

Harald
Title: Re: New sexy look for the 58mm f/1.4 Nokton
Post by: Frank Fremerey on September 16, 2016, 10:17:54
Looks like my old NC-Auto Aid 2/28mm Nikkor. Really sexy!
Title: Re: New sexy look for the 58mm f/1.4 Nokton
Post by: richardHaw on September 16, 2016, 10:19:28
Oh, nice! :) Any Press Release?

Harald

it's in the first line of the original post :o :o :o

this was unexpected ::)
Title: Re: New sexy look for the 58mm f/1.4 Nokton
Post by: richardHaw on September 16, 2016, 10:20:58
Looks like my old NC-Auto Aid 2/28mm Nikkor. Really sexy!

that lens can sing Rod Stewart's song ::)
i really like this. cosina and nikon have a long history of collaboration, this is probably made from goodwill.
Title: Re: New sexy look for the 58mm f/1.4 Nokton
Post by: Frank Fremerey on September 16, 2016, 10:25:38
When can I buy it where? Ill ask them at Photokina
Title: Re: New sexy look for the 58mm f/1.4 Nokton
Post by: richardHaw on September 16, 2016, 10:42:17
When can I buy it where? Ill ask them at Photokina

https://search.mapcamera.com/?janCode=4530076231634%2C4530076231641&limit=100

taking preorders :o :o :o

out next month ::)
Title: Re: New sexy look for the 58mm f/1.4 Nokton
Post by: stenrasmussen on September 16, 2016, 11:03:08
Is it the same optical construction?
Title: Re: New sexy look for the 58mm f/1.4 Nokton
Post by: richardHaw on September 16, 2016, 11:13:00
Is it the same optical construction?

probably. you can try google translating it. i am going to read it when i get home from the studio :o :o :o
sexy...baby...
Title: Re: New sexy look for the 58mm f/1.4 Nokton
Post by: richardHaw on September 16, 2016, 11:14:02
i love this tribute to old Nikkors. this design to me is perfect and the peak of Japanese lens exterior design :o :o :o bauhaus is everywhere
Title: Re: New sexy look for the 58mm f/1.4 Nokton
Post by: Hugh_3170 on September 16, 2016, 11:38:38
Richard, this looks really nice.  An October 2016 release.

The lens hood attachment mechanism looks interesting with an external thread or ridges on the front filter attachment collar for the hood to attach onto.  I cannot read Japanese, but this looks to me to be unique  -  am I right?  I also see that there is a choice of silver or black for the front filter attachment collar - nice.

i love this tribute to old Nikkors. this design to me is perfect and the peak of Japanese lens exterior design :o :o :o bauhaus is everywhere
Title: Re: New sexy look for the 58mm f/1.4 Nokton
Post by: Bjørn Rørslett on September 16, 2016, 11:40:24
This lens in the all-black livery would look gorgeous on a black Df.

Hopefully, the optics are up to par as well.
Title: Re: New sexy look for the 58mm f/1.4 Nokton
Post by: stenrasmussen on September 16, 2016, 11:43:16
It is made for the Df - period!
I suspect the optics are the same as found 3 generations back though, and that's a bit of a bummer. The horrendous coma and more than average high contrast edge blooming should be looked at and fixed.
Title: Re: New sexy look for the 58mm f/1.4 Nokton
Post by: richardHaw on September 16, 2016, 11:46:59
This lens in the all-black livery would look gorgeous on a black Df.

Hopefully, the optics are up to par as well.

it's probably the same as the current one :o :o :o
Title: Re: New sexy look for the 58mm f/1.4 Nokton
Post by: Fons Baerken on September 16, 2016, 11:47:38
Will they be calling it the 'sl iii'.   ;D
Title: Re: New sexy look for the 58mm f/1.4 Nokton
Post by: richardHaw on September 16, 2016, 11:50:51
It is made for the Df - period!
I suspect the optics are the same as found 3 generations back though, and that's a bit of a bummer. The horrendous coma and more than average high contrast edge blooming should be looked at and fixed.

i tried the current version of the 58mm f/1.4, shot it wide open at minimum focus distance and I was not impressed :o :o :o
performance was pedestrian. i cannot see what other people are raving about this lens. maybe i just do not know anything, own better lenses, tested a lemon or using this lens the wrong way ::)
Title: Re: New sexy look for the 58mm f/1.4 Nokton
Post by: stenrasmussen on September 16, 2016, 12:02:04
Well, maybe it is new despite me being confused by the translation highlighted in red and blue. Filter diameter is now 52mm - to honor the original Nikkor.
Here's a google translation:

Koscina will release the exchange lens of Voigtlander the "NOKTON 58mm F1.4 SL II S" in October. Suggested retail price is tax 60,000 5,000 yen. By the color of the lens barrel tip to prepare two types of silver rim and black rim.
Products to replace became a production end "NOKTON 58mm F1.4 SL II N" (appeared in the exterior switching to February 2012). The optical system was redesigned the appearance while inheriting the previous model. Mount is a built-in CPU Nikon Ai-S-compatible, has a new also exposure meter interlocking nail.
The optical system of the same lens, the company has been limited release in 2003, "Auto-Topcor 58mm F1.4" (in M42 mount and Ai-S mount each 800) first adopted in. It is based on the inherited design from Tokyo optical, and the mating with a lens contemporary performance by the taste and the latest optical technology of classic lens by double Gauss configuration.

9 sheets aperture blades. It has a minimum focusing distance of 0.45m. Filter diameter of 52mm.

The maximum diameter × length is 67.6 × 45.5mm. Weight is 320g.

Sold separately to provide a screw-round food "LH-58s" (5,000 yen excluding tax) in.
We tried a combination of the "Nikon Df" looks reminiscent of "Old Nikon". Photos of the lens color is a thing silver rim "Sakishiro".
Appearance of this lens, according to a statement of Koscina "a tribute to the single-lens reflex exchange lens of 1965 (1965-1974 years)". Look to styling that pays tribute to the Nikkor lens of the time. When compare to the conventional model of the same optical system, has been changed to 52mm from the filter diameter of 58mm, be that this was also following the "unification of the attachment size (= filter diameter)," the F-mount Nikkor at the time had put the force unknown. After that it is a maniac of having the impression that indeed Koscina seems ....

The touch different from when compared to the old Nikkor, where Nikkor lens at the time was a black paint aluminum, since the lens has become black anodized similarly to current Koscina lens. Shadow of the knurled edge feeling and stamped letter transmitted to the hands and fingers, the texture of the current Koscina lens is reflected as it is. It points the hybrid condition of the current product and Old felt as leading to the Nikon Df.
By the way, to use the lens side of the aperture ring at the time of shooting with Nikon Df, select "stop ring" in the custom menu "Setting the command dial" → "how to set the aperture value." If you leave this lens in hand, I want to enjoy shooting with all means aperture ring.
Title: Re: New sexy look for the 58mm f/1.4 Nokton
Post by: Akira on September 16, 2016, 13:02:22
Yup.  The optical design remains unchanged.  But the filter size is reduced to 52mm, as opposed to the current 58mm.

Compare these two product images on Cosina's website.  The focus throw of the new version looks a bit longer.

Old:
http://www.cosina.co.jp/seihin/voigtlander/slr-mount/slr-58mm/index.html

New:
http://www.cosina.co.jp/seihin/voigtlander/slr-mount/slr-58mm-s/index.html
Title: Re: New sexy look for the 58mm f/1.4 Nokton
Post by: Airy on September 16, 2016, 13:20:50
Retro-mania ;)

The current version looks good enough. I'd prefer their taking care of wide open performance (close-up performance degradation, and blooming at night at f/1.4 to f/2, not to mention the coma).
Title: Re: New sexy look for the 58mm f/1.4 Nokton
Post by: Akira on September 16, 2016, 13:25:37
I would prefer the design of the very first version.  I'm not big fan of the hill-and-dale focus ring because of its inconsistent handling according to the angle of the focus ring when nailing the focus...
Title: Re: New sexy look for the 58mm f/1.4 Nokton
Post by: Airy on September 16, 2016, 13:33:42
i tried the current version of the 58mm f/1.4, shot it wide open at minimum focus distance and I was not impressed :o :o :o
performance was pedestrian. i cannot see what other people are raving about this lens. maybe i just do not know anything, own better lenses, tested a lemon or using this lens the wrong way ::)

No, your observations were correct. MFD has been kept at 0.45m like most 50mm lenses, maybe to keep the customer satisfied on paper, but it's a 58mm lens. The result is, aberration correction does not suffice at close distances, unless of course you stop down.

At f/2.8 and above, it probably has got the best combination of sharpness, bokeh, flare resistance, low distortion, you name it, among all available products except the Zeiss Otus. And it is much smaller than a Sigma Art. Ergonomics are also near-perfect (aaaah that focus ring). I concur with Akira, a scalloped one is not an improvement.

Anyway, good to see that a "sensible" product gets manufactured again. Not everybody needs a giant 50mm-or-so lens attached to his camera.
Title: Re: New sexy look for the 58mm f/1.4 Nokton
Post by: richardHaw on September 16, 2016, 14:11:01
Thank you very much for the insight :o :o :o

the scalloped focus ring is good for me since i focus fast and the tactile response if you will is an indication of how much i have turned.

I see, so this is basically the same as the Nikon 58mm f/1.4 with improved optics! that lens is near useless wide open, decent at f/2 and good at f/2.8 ::)

i may buy this one just for the heck of it...
Title: Re: New sexy look for the 58mm f/1.4 Nokton
Post by: Akira on September 16, 2016, 14:18:59
According to Impress-Watch website Rick linked, the optical design remains unchanged.

The very first Cosina 58/1.4 was limited production and branded as "Auto-Topcor", and its optical design was "based on" the very original Topcor made by Tokyo Kogaku (Topcon) in the 70s.  The phrase "based on" suggests that its design was modifed or improved.

I guess the Google-translated information quoted by Sten is a bit confused with that.

The product info on the official Cosina website (linked in my previous post) doesn't mention whether the optical design was changed.  If it were changed for better performance, they should boast that.
Title: Re: New sexy look for the 58mm f/1.4 Nokton
Post by: Harald on September 16, 2016, 15:05:31
Hi,

seems just like a cosmetic facelift. Optics unchanged with it flaws. But it Looks so sexy! ;)

Harald
Title: Re: New sexy look for the 58mm f/1.4 Nokton
Post by: Airy on September 16, 2016, 15:51:25
Thank you very much for the insight :o :o :o

the scalloped focus ring is good for me since i focus fast and the tactile response if you will is an indication of how much i have turned.

I see, so this is basically the same as the Nikon 58mm f/1.4 with improved optics! that lens is near useless wide open, decent at f/2 and good at f/2.8 ::)

i may buy this one just for the heck of it...

I won't say anything about the 58/1.4G, since I only had short encounters with it. Opinions seem to differ widely. The Nokton is however quite different, since it is MF only, and it has been very well designed for MF. Optically, it is usable at f/1.4, provided the scene is relatively distant and there are no point light sources. And given its overall performance, it is a real bargain.
Title: Re: New sexy look for the 58mm f/1.4 Nokton
Post by: richardHaw on September 16, 2016, 15:59:31
I won't say anything about the 58/1.4G, since I only had short encounters with it. Opinions seem to differ widely. The Nokton is however quite different, since it is MF only, and it has been very well designed for MF. Optically, it is usable at f/1.4, provided the scene is relatively distant and there are no point light sources. And given its overall performance, it is a real bargain.
sorry, i was referring to the Nikkor-S 5.8cm f/1.4 :o :o :o
Title: Re: New sexy look for the 58mm f/1.4 Nokton
Post by: Airy on September 16, 2016, 16:21:59
The Voigtländer is probably much better at the wide end.
Title: Re: New sexy look for the 58mm f/1.4 Nokton
Post by: Hugh_3170 on September 16, 2016, 18:18:46
Another link from Nikon Rumours:  http://nikonrumors.com/2016/09/16/voigtlander-nokton-58mm-f1-4-sl-ii-s-lens-for-nikon-f-mount.aspx/

In the link, it mentions that the optical formula is unchanged.
Title: Re: New sexy look for the 58mm f/1.4 Nokton
Post by: richardHaw on September 16, 2016, 18:29:23
i am the source :o :o :o
Title: Re: New sexy look for the 58mm f/1.4 Nokton
Post by: John Geerts on September 16, 2016, 20:35:41
 :)  They both look fine to me.  The only thing what really matters is the optical performance. Cosina is not really transparent regarding changes in their optics.
Title: Re: New sexy look for the 58mm f/1.4 Nokton
Post by: Roland Vink on September 16, 2016, 22:30:30
Lovely looking lens, like a cross between the old Nikon Nikkor-S 5.8cm/1.4 and Nikkor-S 55/1.2.
It's nice that they now use the 52mm filter size  :)
Title: Re: New sexy look for the 58mm f/1.4 Nokton
Post by: richardHaw on September 17, 2016, 02:19:58
:)  They both look fine to me.  The only thing what really matters is the optical performance. Cosina is not really transparent regarding changes in their optics.

Hi, John. Should be the same as the old one. it's pricey by the way. :o :o :o
Title: Re: New sexy look for the 58mm f/1.4 Nokton
Post by: richardHaw on September 17, 2016, 02:20:31
Lovely looking lens, like a cross between the old Nikon Nikkor-S 5.8cm/1.4 and Nikkor-S 55/1.2.
It's nice that they now use the 52mm filter size  :)

The focus scale is so much more useful than the usual voigtlander style. :o :o :o
Title: Re: New sexy look for the 58mm f/1.4 Nokton
Post by: Hugh_3170 on September 17, 2016, 06:08:36
Oops  -  sorry Richard - I did not realise where the information in the link originated from.

Many of Cosinas more interesting products can be traced directly back to the photographic interests of its CEO, Kobayashi Hirofumi.

Do you know if Kobayashi Hirofumi is still alive and still in charge of Cosina?


i am the source :o :o :o
Title: Re: New sexy look for the 58mm f/1.4 Nokton
Post by: Akira on September 17, 2016, 06:35:46
Many of Cosinas more interesting products can be traced directly back to the photographic interests of its CEO, Kobayashi Hirofumi.

Do you know if Kobayashi Hirofumi is still alive and still in charge of Cosina?

Apparently Mr. Kobayashi still works as CEO of Cosina.
Title: Re: New sexy look for the 58mm f/1.4 Nokton
Post by: Hugh_3170 on September 17, 2016, 06:43:54
Thanks Akira - that is good news.  Maybe we will see some more treats from him/Cosina.
Title: Re: New sexy look for the 58mm f/1.4 Nokton
Post by: David H. Hartman on September 17, 2016, 07:38:22
I like the look of the new Nokton 58mm f/1.4 SL II S in black. I Iike the scalloped focus and aperture rings. The rubber grips on K-type and later Nikkors was to me a cost cutting measure and not an improvement.

I have a few complaints about current Nikkors. I do not like the any which filter attachment and lens cap size. It's a PITA. The lack of a grip ring makes changing lens or difficult and makes errors more likely.

The new lens looks good!

Dave
Title: Re: New sexy look for the 58mm f/1.4 Nokton
Post by: Airy on September 17, 2016, 09:56:26
As the old one did, in another style. Would Cosina consider re-doing the apo lanthar 125mm in such style (at a reasonable price) ? that would be even better news.
Title: Re: New sexy look for the 58mm f/1.4 Nokton
Post by: Hugh_3170 on September 17, 2016, 10:16:50
If the Zeiss relationship didn't preclude such an action, Cosina would sell the 125mm in bucket loads, now that its reputation has been so firmly established. 

They did after all re-release an SLII version of the also good 90mm f/3.5, so I suppose that we are at least entitled to dream.    ;D  ;D

As the old one did, in another style. Would Cosina consider re-doing the apo lanthar 125mm in such style (at a reasonable price) ? that would be even better news.
Title: Re: New sexy look for the 58mm f/1.4 Nokton
Post by: Airy on September 17, 2016, 10:22:36
"Zeiss relationship" ?
Title: Re: New sexy look for the 58mm f/1.4 Nokton
Post by: Harald on September 17, 2016, 10:54:25
Hi Airy,

the "cheaper" Zeisslenses are manufactured by Cosina.

Harald
Title: Re: New sexy look for the 58mm f/1.4 Nokton
Post by: Akira on September 17, 2016, 12:17:24
"Zeiss relationship" ?

There was a rumor saying that Consina had to discontinue 125/2.5 in order to become the OME of Zeiss because it was superior to Macro Planar 100/2.0.  I don't know if it is true.
Title: Re: New sexy look for the 58mm f/1.4 Nokton
Post by: Bjørn Rørslett on September 17, 2016, 12:36:56
The statement about 125/2.5 vs 100/2 is true.
Title: Re: New sexy look for the 58mm f/1.4 Nokton
Post by: Airy on September 17, 2016, 12:44:37
The statement about 125/2.5 vs 100/2 is true.
... i.e. only the causality link with discontinuation is a rumor.

Now that the 100/2 has been re-designed, let's see what happens.
Title: Re: New sexy look for the 58mm f/1.4 Nokton
Post by: Danulon on September 17, 2016, 13:00:07
Will they be calling it the 'sl iii'.   ;D

SL IIs
Title: Re: New sexy look for the 58mm f/1.4 Nokton
Post by: Danulon on September 17, 2016, 13:01:55
Hi Airy,

the "cheaper" Zeisslenses are manufactured by Cosina.

Harald

Only Otusses and the 15 mm are supposed to be made in Germany.
Title: Re: New sexy look for the 58mm f/1.4 Nokton
Post by: benveniste on September 18, 2016, 18:46:35
On a related topic, does anyone have the lens hood for the "old" Noktor?  I haven't been able to convince myself that this thing is worth $50+.
Title: Re: New sexy look for the 58mm f/1.4 Nokton
Post by: Airy on September 18, 2016, 18:50:58
No. I bought a third-party, short metal hood (fit for 35mm) acting as a bumper. It does the job, given the lens resistance to flare.
Title: Re: New sexy look for the 58mm f/1.4 Nokton
Post by: John Geerts on September 18, 2016, 18:57:33
There are several options for a Nikon hood with regard to the Nokton 58/1.4 58mm version    - with step up ring to HN-24 (62mm)  or step down to HN-7  (52mm)  for instance.
Title: Re: New sexy look for the 58mm f/1.4 Nokton
Post by: Akira on September 19, 2016, 00:47:18
I always prefer plastic hoods.  The plastic (or similar synthetic material) absorbs the shock much better than the metal.
Title: Re: New sexy look for the 58mm f/1.4 Nokton
Post by: richardHaw on September 19, 2016, 15:33:36
I am sure that Nikon's older HS hoods will be perfect :o :o :o
Title: Re: New sexy look for the 58mm f/1.4 Nokton
Post by: Bjørn Rørslett on September 19, 2016, 15:35:36
They will, at least , fall off perfectly :D  an impact is frequently not required.
Title: Re: New sexy look for the 58mm f/1.4 Nokton
Post by: richardHaw on September 19, 2016, 16:09:59
depends. I actually find that the HS hoods are quite solid on some lenses yet very fragile on others. the HN hoods are also nice but I like the HS ones for convenience :o :o :o
Title: Re: New sexy look for the 58mm f/1.4 Nokton
Post by: David H. Hartman on September 19, 2016, 16:15:35
How many 50mm lenses are enough?

Dave
Title: Re: New sexy look for the 58mm f/1.4 Nokton
Post by: Airy on September 19, 2016, 16:36:31
One, if it is a summicron
Title: Re: New sexy look for the 58mm f/1.4 Nokton
Post by: Akira on September 19, 2016, 17:07:07
I also need only one, if it can go up to, say, 1:4 magnification.
Title: Re: New sexy look for the 58mm f/1.4 Nokton
Post by: Harald on September 19, 2016, 17:09:19
I think one for every day of the week is enougj. Let me count: Not enough! ;)

Harald
Title: Re: New sexy look for the 58mm f/1.4 Nokton
Post by: Airy on September 19, 2016, 17:16:46
Zeiss (MF) and Tamrpn (AF, 45mm) can focus close but you'll miss some speed.
Voigtländer gets close to 1:4 but you'll have to stop it down near MFD.
In fact you need to pick some f/1.4 and find a satisfactory close-up lens... Voigt 40/2 for instance. But it has some flaws (haloing on night shots..) and is MF.
Title: Re: New sexy look for the 58mm f/1.4 Nokton
Post by: Akira on September 19, 2016, 17:40:31
Yes, a No.3 achromatic close up lens would do the job.
Title: Re: New sexy look for the 58mm f/1.4 Nokton
Post by: Airy on September 19, 2016, 17:56:40
Now which f/1.4 to pick is the next challenge. The 50/1.4 G may disappoint wide open, although some here (Fons...) seem to be able to put it at good use. The Sigma 50/1.4 is sharp, but bulky as a zoom.

In the MF area, none are really convincing wide open, except maybe the Zeiss (Milvus or Otus - hardly universal given their size and weight). When comparing the Nokton with the old 50/1.4 AIS wide open, there was no big difference: the Voigt is very slightly sharper and somewhat more contrasty in the center, and has more neutral color (no "purple haze". But its sharpness seems to drop down faster away from the center, so it's more or less a draw. I'll have to re-test, my hands were less steady than usual (some visible camera shake at 1/50s), and I did not manage to frame identically.
Title: Re: New sexy look for the 58mm f/1.4 Nokton
Post by: Akira on September 19, 2016, 18:51:07
To me, 50/1.8G is really a good lens which should be better at closer ranges.  My concern about any f1.4 or faster lenses is the potential cut-out of the bokeh circle caused by the mirror box.  So, an f1.8 or 2.0 lenses would rather be more ideal to me.
Title: Re: New sexy look for the 58mm f/1.4 Nokton
Post by: John Geerts on September 19, 2016, 21:13:16
They will, at least , fall off perfectly :D  an impact is frequently not required.
;D
Title: Re: New sexy look for the 58mm f/1.4 Nokton
Post by: Airy on September 19, 2016, 21:52:35
To me, 50/1.8G is really a good lens which should be better at closer ranges.  My concern about any f1.4 or faster lenses is the potential cut-out of the bokeh circle caused by the mirror box.  So, an f1.8 or 2.0 lenses would rather be more ideal to me.

You should try the Tamron 45/1.8. Compared to the 50/1.8G, and FL difference aside, it provides even better (uniform) sharpness wide open, lower vignetting, excellent coma correction, and as a bonus : VR and sealing. Maybe a tad less contrasty, not really Zeiss-ish. A good match for the 300/4 PF.

Apparently I must be the only user in this forum ?
Title: Re: New sexy look for the 58mm f/1.4 Nokton
Post by: Akira on September 19, 2016, 22:49:46
Tamron 45/1.8 is really attractive, but only in the spec sheet, at least to me.  It's too big to be unobtrusive, especially with the hood...
Title: Re: New sexy look for the 58mm f/1.4 Nokton
Post by: Airy on September 19, 2016, 23:06:37
Indeed.
Title: Re: New sexy look for the 58mm f/1.4 Nokton
Post by: Mongo on September 20, 2016, 02:22:26
what is essentially "old" seems to have regained its sex appeal....................there may yet be hope for Mongo.
Title: Re: New sexy look for the 58mm f/1.4 Nokton
Post by: richardHaw on September 20, 2016, 04:39:13
what is essentially "old" seems to have regained its sex appeal....................there may yet be hope for Mongo.

men get sexier as we get older. like fine wine :o :o :o

modern lenses do not appeal much to me anymore so this 58mm is a good thing and I hope that the trend continues.