NikonGear'23
Gear Talk => Lens Talk => Topic started by: Andrea B. on March 27, 2016, 21:16:47
-
Here is one for sale on Ebay. It is the 9-bladed version.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-NIKON-58mm-f1-2-Noct-Nikkor-1-1-2-58-AI-S-AI-S-Noctilux-/252333002635?hash=item3ac0380f8b:g:-JEAAOSwwpdW9d8u (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-NIKON-58mm-f1-2-Noct-Nikkor-1-1-2-58-AI-S-AI-S-Noctilux-/252333002635?hash=item3ac0380f8b:g:-JEAAOSwwpdW9d8u)
Price: GBP 1888 for Buy Now
This seems like a slightly better price than other recent Noct-Nikkor offers which seem to be to have pushed beyond a reasonable level. I note that the overpriced Noct-Nikkors abound on Ebay right now and do not seem to be selling.
-
For what it's worth the new 58mm f/1.4 AFS is very similar in IQ - Would be next to impossible to tell them apart in even a very large print,,,
-
I can't get motivated to spend 3-Grand on this lens (or even 2-Grand, as in this case).
Erik says the 58mm f/1.4 is similar in IQ, and this review (http://www.momentcorp.com/review/nikon_noct-nikkor_58mm.html) shows as the ordinary MF Nikon 50mm f/1.2 Ai-S is better in many respects in this review (http://www.momentcorp.com/review/nikon_nikkor_50mm_1.2.html) (same reviewer).
Other than for collection purposes, there appears to be no field purpose to spend the extra gravy on the Noct-Nikkor 58/1.2 lens.
-
If you say so ...
I have two copies of the Noct for a reason. And for the record, either own or have used the other 'normals' you refer to.
This is a lens made for special application in photography. If these are your fields, you either understand its value, or will once you have used the Noct. The Nikon engineers specifically tried to recreate the Noct in their new 58/1.4 AFS. Some think they succeeded, personally I think the new lens is fine on its own. But the Noct holds it ground well enough despite the newer offering.
-
If you say so ...
"I" didn't say so, the author of the articles to which I referred said so. (As did Erik.)
I have two copies of the Noct for a reason. And for the record, either own or have used the other 'normals' you refer to.
Okay ... and?
This is a lens made for special application in photography. If these are your fields, you either understand its value, or will once you have used the Noct. The Nikon engineers specifically tried to recreate the Noct in their new 58/1.4 AFS. Some think they succeeded, personally I think the new lens is fine on its own. But the Noct holds it ground well enough despite the newer offering.
Curious to hear you elaborate on the pluses minuses.
Saying you "own" something doesn't give the reader much to go on.
I've not owned the Noct, so all I can do is refer to the reviewer above, and there have been others which say that the CA at f/1.2 is pretty bad and that by f/2 the AiS f/2 is as good or better, sharpness-wise.
If you have direct experience, would be grateful to hear you elaborate.
-
If it is Bjørn R. who is doing the owning, then that fact alone gives me a lot to go on. ;D ;D ;D But I grant that YMMV for others. Srsly though, the man does know how to recognize a good lens.
I have both the Noct-Nikkor and the 50/1.2 AIS. Make of this what you will, but the Noct has character and the 1.2 does not. The Noct's backgrounds are nicer. Its renditions are smooth and subtle, not jittery or busy. Noct is for Night: night time shooting between 1.2 and 4.0. I think the Noct, while sharp, has somewhat less microcontrast than today's "documentary lenses" like, say, the modern Zeisses. The Noct provides a more of a - what word am I looking for ? - artistic?? look to its images. The Noct, however, does not lack contrast.
The Noct paints like a Japanese watercolour while the new Zeisses draw like German etchings. The 50/1.2 doodles sketches in the margins of the morning newspaper.
I don't test lenses, I just use them. So I don't really have much of a vocabulary for describing lens properties.
The new Noct is somewhere in between the old Noct and the old 50/1.2.
Anyway, my original post was intended to be more about the pricing than the merits or lack of merits of the Noct. There seems to be some resistance to the over $3k pricing for a Noct. This is a good thing because the Noct is specialized and not truly rare (yet). So its price should be increasing gradually.
-
i want to own the NOCT. just for the heck of it :o :o :o
tried one and it's really special. it's not for everyone to be honest, like the 55mm f/1.2http://richardhaw.com/2016/02/06/repair-new-nikkor-55mm-f1-2/ (http://richardhaw.com/2016/02/06/repair-new-nikkor-55mm-f1-2/) that i own. its a very polarizing lens in the sense that its a like it or hate it thing. very much like the Df. some love theirs while i hated it (the current one at least)
-
Here is one for sale on Ebay. It is the 9-bladed version.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-NIKON-58mm-f1-2-Noct-Nikkor-1-1-2-58-AI-S-AI-S-Noctilux-/252333002635?hash=item3ac0380f8b:g:-JEAAOSwwpdW9d8u (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-NIKON-58mm-f1-2-Noct-Nikkor-1-1-2-58-AI-S-AI-S-Noctilux-/252333002635?hash=item3ac0380f8b:g:-JEAAOSwwpdW9d8u)
Price: GBP 1888 for Buy Now
This seems like a slightly better price than other recent Noct-Nikkor offers which seem to be to have pushed beyond a reasonable level. I note that the overpriced Noct-Nikkors abound on Ebay right now and do not seem to be selling.
that is actually around the same price it is being sold here in Tokyo. and i still cannot afford one at the moment. i am determined to get one next year. it is like a little life goal for me. even one with fungus would be perfect for me so i can get it cheap and clean it.
the 7 bladed version is a lot cheaper, that would also be fine for me
-
"I don't test lenses, I just use them. So I don't really have much of a vocabulary for describing lens properties. "
Andrea, you are doing just fine. Anyone familiar with these lenses will recognise your descriptions.
The Noct has character. Use the lens and learn its capabilities. There is no inherent magic to the Noct unless you, the photographer, can recognise the potential and unleash it.
-
Both 58mm are different to the 50mm 1.2
-
The reviews stating the 50mm 1.2 is superior are looking at numbers - Completely wrong approach to the subject at hand IMHO.
The tonality, transition and the ability to make colors float into each other, the rendering and the feel of the images that's was counts with the 58mm 1.2 and 1.4- Also the 35mm 1.4 AFS has this ability, same optical designer and same goals for the optical properties of the lens.
We have a thread on the 58mm 1.4 AFS where there is a video interview with the lens designers clearly stating this!
The 50mm 1.2 has it's strong sides as well It is just a different tool than the 58mm 1.2 and 1.4
-
Erik, wholeheartedly concur. Couldn't have put it better myself.
Besides the Nocts, I do use the 50/1.2 AIS and the 55/1.2 AI. Plus a raft of 50/1.4 Nikkors of various age. I don't appraise them against each other as they all are useful tools on their own.
-
The reviews stating the 50mm 1.2 is superior are looking at numbers - Completely wrong approach to the subject at hand IMHO.
The tonality, transition and the ability to make colors float into each other, the rendering and the feel of the images that's was counts with the 58mm 1.2 and 1.4- Also the 35mm 1.4 AFS has this ability, same optical designer and same goals for the optical properties of the lens.
We have a thread on the 58mm 1.4 AFS where there is a video interview with the lens designers clearly stating this!
The 50mm 1.2 has it's strong sides as well It is just a different tool than the 58mm 1.2 and 1.4
Thank you for the explanation. Makes sense.
Curious how the 58 f/1.2 Noct compares to the 55 f/1.4 Otus in the rendering.
-
They are at the opposite ends of the scale ;)
Otus series lenses produces a clean crisp well defined image almost flawless in technical terms, amazing set of lenses they are true technical marvels - I would love to have that set of lenses as well to go along the Nikkor 1.4 AFS lenses,,, actually the Nikkor 85mm 1.4 AFS is close to the Otus performance although again softer and tiny bit more painterly,,, But sharpness wise up there.
There are several threads here on the Otus lenses as well!
-
I find it very, very interesting just how *difficult* it is to express the characteristics of a lens aside from its MTF chart, which of course cannot tell the entire story.
When I tried to write about my Noct and 50/1.2, as compared to each other and to other lenses, I was quite stumped and had to resort to similie (...."paints like", "draws like".....). Sometime when I have time to think about it, I think I will attempt to determine if any of a lens' non-MTF characteristics can be reliably described or illustrated. For example, we all know that a lens' bokeh is easily demonstrated by making photos at wide apertures. But how to you show contrast, microcontrast, tonality and so forth inn a repeatible and reliable manner? There must be a way to show this for purposes of discussion in threads like this. Because I agree that when one of us states that a certain lens "has character", it does not really tell the reader much. ;D
-
There must be a way to show this for purposes of discussion in threads like this.
Perhaps the best way is to remember the old adage, "A picture's worth a thousand words." ;D
-
I find it very, very interesting just how *difficult* it is to express the characteristics of a lens aside from its MTF chart, which of course cannot tell the entire story.
When I tried to write about my Noct and 50/1.2, as compared to each other and to other lenses, I was quite stumped and had to resort to similie (...."paints like", "draws like".....). Sometime when I have time to think about it, I think I will attempt to determine if any of a lens' non-MTF characteristics can be reliably described or illustrated. For example, we all know that a lens' bokeh is easily demonstrated by making photos at wide apertures. But how to you show contrast, microcontrast, tonality and so forth inn a repeatible and reliable manner? There must be a way to show this for purposes of discussion in threads like this. Because I agree that when one of us states that a certain lens "has character", it does not really tell the reader much. ;D
"Repetible and reliable manner"
Something tells me that this will rely on quite heavy use of mathematics, and it won't be easy to write about or discuss. MTF charts may turn out to be the easy part, and even those can present a sufficient amount of difficulties. :o
-
Tomorrow's my birthday. I need a Noct. Whoever reaches 60 and has got no Noct has wasted his life, anyway.
By the way I'll be sixty in 366 days, so there's still some hope left.
On the f/1.2 thread, I sort of compensated by tossing in a few f/1.2 shots from the two siblings (50/1.2 AI and AIS). I do have a few shots made with three different Nocts, but these are all test shots made in shops (Paris, Ginza, ...) and none will truly demonstrate its pictorial qualities.
And concerning MTF curves, let me repeat that certain Naerfotograf website proved more useful (to me, i.e. better correlated with my subjective satisfaction) than most chart-laden sites...
-
Tomorrow's my birthday. I need a Noct. Whoever reaches 60 and has got no Noct has wasted his life, anyway.
..
The Nikkor-SC 5cm F1.5 (About 800 made total) was on my "bucket list", I've added the 1948 5cm F2 Collapsible, 1949 8.5cm F2, 1949 13.5cm F4, and 1949 3.5cm F3.5- all with the proper Nikon 1949 varifinder. I'll be 60 shortly after you. "I'm satisfied", go for the Noct-Nikkor.
Getting the Noct-Nikkor would certainly have been less costly.
-
I'll likely bring *two* Noct-Nikkors with me to Scotland this May. Thus at least the members participating in the NG Event at Killin will have the opportunity to acquaint themselves with this lens.
-
Unfortunately I'll be at work... otherwise I'd be most pleased to meet the owner too...
-
IR Noct
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1664/24980062651_552bed7afe_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/E4pmkn)_EGL6220 (https://flic.kr/p/E4pmkn) by Erik Gunst Lund (https://www.flickr.com/photos/erik_lund/), on Flickr
-
Noct
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/675/22907513044_635136c67b_b.jpg)_EGL5976 by [url=https://www.flickr.com/photos/erik_lund/]Erik Gunst Lund (https://flic.kr/p/AUfZxs), on Flickr[/url]_EGL5976 (https://flic.kr/p/AUfZxs) by Erik Gunst Lund (https://www.flickr.com/photos/erik_lund/), on Flickr
50mm f/1.2 Ais
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1695/25492838644_b496a1f300_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/EQHsLL)_EGL5975 (https://flic.kr/p/EQHsLL) by Erik Gunst Lund (https://www.flickr.com/photos/erik_lund/), on Flickr
Just see the sheer size difference in blur circles, and that is from the same distance.
-
there is a difference in focus, that explains the same distance i think
-
Erik, only difference I can tell in those particular images are the Noct's tighter focal length. That combined with the focus area certainly makes the circles larger.
-
Difference in focus,,, You don't see it,,, OMG ::)
Are we looking at the big white blobs dead center,,,?
-
Noct at Night
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4041/4564783531_745c6054d5_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/7XnH7k)_EGL4003 (https://flic.kr/p/7XnH7k) by Erik Gunst Lund (https://www.flickr.com/photos/erik_lund/), on Flickr
-
In bright daylight you need a fast shutter,,,
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5689/22908309753_eda1d88c50_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/AUk5nP)_EGL4907 (https://flic.kr/p/AUk5nP) by Erik Gunst Lund (https://www.flickr.com/photos/erik_lund/), on Flickr
-
It you stop it down you stat to see Ghosts - So never ever do that! See what happens at f/11
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5726/23171483489_3ccaf076fe_h.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/BizUL2)_EGL5138 (https://flic.kr/p/BizUL2) by Erik Gunst Lund (https://www.flickr.com/photos/erik_lund/), on Flickr
-
Noct Straight up
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5758/23535658695_5490309abc_h.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/BRLpmT)_EGL5183 (https://flic.kr/p/BRLpmT) by Erik Gunst Lund (https://www.flickr.com/photos/erik_lund/), on Flickr
-
Just kidding, here it is a f/8, still it retains the image nicely
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5822/22911336914_cc8a088d0c_h.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/AUAAff)_EGL5713 (https://flic.kr/p/AUAAff) by Erik Gunst Lund (https://www.flickr.com/photos/erik_lund/), on Flickr
On of our esteemed members ;)
-
Difference in focus,,, You don't see it,,, OMG ::)
Are we looking at the big white blobs dead center,,,?
Well what, looking at the Gerbera of course
-
For reference; Carlsberg Beer-can shot of a girl we will meet soon in Scotland,,,
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/600/23240018860_b390c24d46_h.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/BpDaWm)_EGL5787 (https://flic.kr/p/BpDaWm) by Erik Gunst Lund (https://www.flickr.com/photos/erik_lund/), on Flickr
-
Well what, looking at the Gerbera of course
Never mind the flower Fons ;) this is about where the real difference is - And the difference is transitions of color and that is created by the blur circles among other,,,
These are to give you an idea of the Noct-Rendering
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/617/23540997795_a1d1bbe7ea_h.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/BSeLuk)_EGL8776 (https://flic.kr/p/BSeLuk) by Erik Gunst Lund (https://www.flickr.com/photos/erik_lund/), on Flickr
-
I feel Andrea did a good job of expressing the character or style of certain specialized lenses like the Noct Nikkor. I group the Noct along several other lenses that I feel have character-to-spare, such as the Noct, the El Nikkor APO 105mm, the AM-ED 120mm, the Printing Nikkor 150mm, etc.
If I want to copy or have a forensic like photo I would use a flat lens like the Micro-Nikkor 60mm or the Coastal Optic 60mm f.4, etc. If I want or a field-guide nature photo, I would use a macro lens like the CV-125 APO-Lanthar and so on.
However, if a want a style or to capture an impression, I would use one of the above lenses. Here is a photo I took about an hour ago or so with the El Nikkor APO 105 that has character. It may be easier to see it than describe it. This with the Nikon D810 and Zerene Stacker.
The greatest problem with the Noct Nikkor is chromatic aberration, which has to be removed.
-
Erik, I did not mean that I can not see differences between the Noct and the 1.2, I just don't think that particular comparison was good at displaying the differences. Your follow-up images, along with the others I have seen, certainly proves the Noct to render oof regions much more smoothly than the 1.2, along with enhanced clarity within the region in focus. The comparison you gave didn't provjde an oof background that the 1.2 would draw more nervously, as it tends to do compared to the Noct, so it leveled the playing field.
The images in replies 26 and 27 have lovely aesthetics by the way. ☺
-
We are not in disagreement Tristin.
The image comparison show some of the underlying reason for the difference in rendering between the two lenses.
-
A couple more contributions:
(https://c8.staticflickr.com/8/7355/27564155751_6d5a281d03_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/HZKvbF)Impression (https://flic.kr/p/HZKvbF) by Bill de Jager (https://www.flickr.com/photos/99349448@N06/), on Flickr (https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7510/27564364451_8a3c90de70_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/HZLzdX)Untitled #2 (https://flic.kr/p/HZLzdX) by Bill de Jager (https://www.flickr.com/photos/99349448@N06/), on Flickr
-
Just see the sheer size difference in blur circles, and that is from the same distance.
I don't see that blur size as particularly important. What I notice is the bokeh quality of the window frame in the Noct photo. It's a nice enhancement in smooth and creaminess compared to the AIS
Dave Hartman
-
It is the blur circle size that is helping in making that possible.
-
With bokeh you can get quality (smooth) or quantity (big blur circle). With the Noct you can get both!
-
Correct
-
Oh, Erik, I was so young and hansom!
-
Quick reminder that there is a nice copy for sale here.
-
Quick reminder that there is a nice copy for sale here.
I think Nikon has frozen the Noct market by pre-announcing the new version. Collectors probably already have one, and users are expecting great things from the 0.95. If the old Noct is better in some ways than the new one, the old Noct will start to sell again, but no one knows right now.
-
Here is one for sale on Ebay. It is the 9-bladed version.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-NIKON-58mm-f1-2-Noct-Nikkor-1-1-2-58-AI-S-AI-S-Noctilux-/252333002635?hash=item3ac0380f8b:g:-JEAAOSwwpdW9d8u (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-NIKON-58mm-f1-2-Noct-Nikkor-1-1-2-58-AI-S-AI-S-Noctilux-/252333002635?hash=item3ac0380f8b:g:-JEAAOSwwpdW9d8u)
Price: GBP 1888 for Buy Now
This seems like a slightly better price than other recent Noct-Nikkor offers which seem to be to have pushed beyond a reasonable level. I note that the overpriced Noct-Nikkors abound on Ebay right now and do not seem to be selling.
hi Andrea, aguinaldo sells a mint vopy of the lens in the classifieds on nikongear. Same price.
-
Do we know what the close-focus distance is on the new NOCT for the Nikon Z cameras?
-
In the published pictures you can see the close focus distance is 0.5m, a little to the left of the infinity mark. That also means the focus throw is very long, probably around 330 degrees.
(https://cdn-7.nikon-cdn.com/Images/CPCAssets/announcement/noct/img/noct-xl.png)
-
In the published pictures you can see the close focus distance is 0.5m, a little to the left of the infinity mark. That also means the focus throw is very long, probably around 330 degrees.
(https://cdn-7.nikon-cdn.com/Images/CPCAssets/announcement/noct/img/noct-xl.png)
I see the number "82." is that what you refer to? And how do I read that please?
NEVER MIND. I see wha you are pointing at. Thanks. Now, I wish we had some very thin extension tubes for this new mount to get closer.
-
In the published pictures you can see the close focus distance is 0.5m, a little to the left of the infinity mark. That also means the focus throw is very long, probably around 330 degrees.
is this lens AF or MF. I guess the focus throw has no meaning with drive by wire???
-
I see the number "82." is that what you refer to? And how do I read that please?
it is the filter size
-
Apparently the Z Noct has an OLED display like Zeiss Batis. So, I wonder if it is still a focus-by-wire lens to avoid the mechanical slack?
-
is this lens AF or MF. I guess the focus throw has no meaning with drive by wire???
The announced 58/0.95 is manual focus only.
-
The new Noct-Nikkor looks like an Otus killer to me, if Nikon does all that it can do. The APO El-Nikkor f/5.6 is the last lens I would part with if I had to give all my lenses up. It is that good. I believe I have to save my pennies and get me the new Noct-Nikkor.
I have a great copy of the old Noct. Should I sell it now or hang onto it? Any suggestions? I love it, but it has a bad case of chromatic aberration, which I don't like. My guess is the new Noct will be better corrected. Are all of you who have the old Noct hanging on to them?
-
I own an AI and an AIS version of the Noct. Will keep both, even when the 58/0.95 eventually arrives.
However, the notion of the new Noct being an "Otus-killer" is premature. Even more likely, it will perfect and polish the optical character of the existing Noct, not aiming to achieve a theoretically perfect (yet, ever so often perceived dull and life-less) rendition.
-
I own an AI and an AIS version of the Noct. Will keep both, even when the 58/0.95 eventually arrives.
However, the notion of the new Noct being an "Otus-killer" is premature. Even more likely, it will perfect and polish the optical character of the existing Noct, not aiming to achieve a theoretically perfect (yet, ever so often perceived dull and life-less) rendition.
I hear you. I would not sell my current NOCT unless the new one was superior in the ways I need for what I do. The current one is great, but flawed for what I do, which is close-up...and as mentioned, the CA is not nice.