NikonGear'23
Gear Talk => Lens Talk => Topic started by: Michael Erlewine on February 24, 2016, 14:53:13
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I am sufficiently interested in the Pentax K1 to have ordered one. As a mostly tripod photographer, one who does a lot of still nature photography, it seems that the sensor-shift feature that produces larger and perhaps cleaner-color files, if it works as advertised, is right up my alley.
There remains the problem of lenses. I don’t have any Pentax K lenses, and probably wouldn’t be that happy with them if I did. What I do know are some of the Voigtlander lenses, and the Voigtlander 90mm f/3.5 SL lens comes in a Pentax K mount, although I understand they are no longer produced.
I managed to find a CV-90 SL for Pentax K mount in japan and ordered one, because I know and have this lens in Nikon F-Mount and it is very sharp and well corrected. I have a couple of questions for those of you who know Pentax lenses.
What other FF lenses of that sharpness and correction are out there that will fit the Pentax?
Is there any way to mount Nikon lenses on the Pentax K1?
Since I have the CV-90 in both Nikon and Pentax mounts, is there any way to get a Pentax K mount and then substitute a Nikon-style lens to the K mount?
What I would most like is to have a CV125mm APO-Lanthar on the K1 mount, which I understand exist, but are rare. I have an extra CF-125mm for Nikon F-Mount. Could it be switched to the K Mount?
Any help on lens advice is appreciated?
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If you can find this lens: Voigtlander ULTRON 40mm f/2 in the first version with chrome bayonet for the sunshade, in Pentax mount you can exchange the mount with the APO Lanthar 125mm, there is a chance it will work,,,
Basically I don't know this new Pentax mount,,,
These Voigtlander lenses have a universal design making this possible - the Ais mount reverse the action for the aperture stop down, so I guess it will be the right wrong way around on a Pentax.
Otherwise send two APO Lanthar 125mm in Nikon Ais to me and you will get one Apo Lanthar 125mm in Pentax mount in return ;)
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If you can find this lens: Voigtlander ULTRON 40mm f/2 in the first version with chrome bayonet for the sunshade, in Pentax mount you can exchange the mount with the APO Lanthar 125mm, there is a chance it will work,,,
Basically I don't know this new Pentax mount,,,
These Voigtlander lenses have a universal design making this possible - the Ais mount reverse the action for the aperture stop down, so I guess it will be the right wrong way around on a Pentax.
Otherwise send two APO Lanthar 125mm in Nikon Ais to me and you will get one Apo Lanthar 125mm in Pentax mount in return ;)
Can you give anymore detail about the mount exchange. I don't see any Voigtlander Ultron 40mm for Pentax, but I have one for Nikon mount. Any photos of what the Pentax mount Ultron looks like?
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My best guess would be this one:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-Voigtlander-ULTRON-40mm-F-2-SL-Aspherical-Lens-for-Pentax-K5230-/272069876575?nma=true&si=SnQ9xJtlYn5vGZ1oUrkUC671TbQ%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
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Should be a walk in the park for Richard to find one in Japan ;)
Please do note, the later version, all black - Does not fit!
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And for reference; This is how the rear lens end of the Ultron 40mm should look like inside ie identical to the APO Lanthar 125mm
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Should be a walk in the park for Richard to find one in Japan ;)
Please do note, the later version, all black - Does not fit!
Ebay has M42 mounts, but no Pentax at the moment. I will look.
Is this the lens shape?
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And for reference; This is how the rear lens end of the Ultron 40mm should look like inside ie identical to the APO Lanthar 125mm
No image to see?
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Two small facts that i know:
1. The Pentax M42 screw mount is adaptable(with correct infinity focus) to the K mount. I had some of these back in
the 1980's.
2. In the first few years of the Zeiss ZF/ZE series lenses, they were also offered in K mount(ZK) and M42 mount(ZS).
The list may include the 21/2.8, 25/2.8, 35/2, 50/1.4, 50/2 Macro, 85/1.4, and the 100/2.
Pentax M42 screw mount: Anyone know how that might be done?
Not interested in the Zeiss, but I know the CV-125 really well and that would allow me to test the new camera properly.
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Thanks Sten!
Then you buy the Ultron i mentioned but in M42 mount and switch the mount onto the APO Lanthar and use a M42 to K-mount adapter on it
Erik,
I am a novice here. Could you perhaps walk me through the process?
(1) But the Ulton in M43 mount
(2) Switch the mount onto the APO Lanthar (the Lanthar is in F-Mount). I need more detail here.
(30 Us the M43 to K Mount adapter? Which one? Do you have a link?
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Yes, I have a plan.
The problem with the Pentax K1 camera is there are no lenses, at least that I know and can judge by. I have ordered a Voigtlander 90mm APO lens with Pentax mount. I know that lens well.
What I do have is the Rollei Bellows Camera, which takes all the parts of the Novoflex Balpro bellows. I just ordered an adapter plate to allow me to mount the Pentax K1 camera on the rear.d standard of the bellows, and use my Nkon F-mount lenses on the front. That should give me enough lenses to get a right idea of how useful this camera will be for the work that I do.
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Buy the Ultron i mentioned in M42 mount
Remove the M42 mount.
Remove Ais mount from APO
Put the M42 mount onto the APO Lanthar
Buy M42 to K-mount adapter and put it on the APO
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Buy the Ultron i mentioned in M42 mount
Remove the M42 mount.
Remove Ais mount from APO
Put the M42 mount onto the APO Lanthar
Buy M42 to K-mount adapter and put it on the APO
Done. Lens and adapter ordered.
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Buy the Ultron i mentioned in M42 mount
Remove the M42 mount.
Remove Ais mount from APO
Put the M42 mount onto the APO Lanthar
Buy M42 to K-mount adapter and put it on the APO
Erik:
Are there any photos, links, suggestions about what exactly is taken off when we remove the M42 mount?
Same with the AIS mount from the APO, is it obvious>
Same when putting the M42 on the APO Lanthar. Are the wholes the same or what?
Any clearer idea would help.
Is this something I can do by myself or should I ask John White if he cane do it?
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I'm thinking it should be easier to adapt a Nikon mount lens to fit onto a Pentax K mount camera.
Fotodiox make such an adapter ... https://www.fotodioxpro.com/nikon-f-lens-to-pentax-k-camera-fotodiox-lens-mount-adapter.html (https://www.fotodioxpro.com/nikon-f-lens-to-pentax-k-camera-fotodiox-lens-mount-adapter.html)
It does have a lens element to achieve infinity focus, but they also describe it as removable for the purpose of macro photography .. so at least it should be easily removable.
Alternatively, you could make your own adapter if Pentax has an equivalent to Nikon's K-1 adapter ring.
If Pentax did have just such an adpater, you could mount your Nikon F mount lenses to a K-3 ring, which has a Nikon F mount to 52mm (male)thread conversion.
If this Pentax K-1 ring had 52mm (female)threads, you'd have yourself a very slight amount of extension for each lens, therefore most likely losing infinity focus.
But as Michael seems to concentrate on close up imagery I doubt that this will be a problem.
question is, what is Pentax's K-1 ring equivalent .. if one exists.
edit:
There are plenty of Pentax K mount to 52mm thread adapters on ebay, but they're all male threaded so as to mount a lens directly onto the adapter.
But you'd need a female thread type .. ie. Nikon K-1 equivalent if you were to use a Nikon K-3 ring for the lens.
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Nikon flange focal distance is 46.50mm.
Pentax flange focal distance is 45.50mm.
So you can only adapt Nikon lenses to Pentax bodies and maintain infinity focus by using an adaptor with an element.
In my opinion that extra element degrades the performance of the adapted lens. YMMV, of course. "-)
But if you are thinking about this K-1 body, do consider the approximately one-million-and-two M42 manual lenses out there made by Pentax and scads of other manufacturers. Pentax itself makes a nice K-mount to M42-mount adapter which fits perfectly inside the K-mount body.
The most "corrected" Pentax lens I know about is the rare Ultra-Achromatic-Takumar 85/4.5. It is corrected between UV, Visible and IR wavelengths. I'm assuming (perhaps erroneously?), that such correction would work well in the Visible-only wavelengths.
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Michael, I already linked an image of how the lens should look like inside i.e. identical to a APO Lanthar.
Don't remove aperture rings or anything, a small steel ball will drop out if you do,,,
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Dunno if there is anything worthwhile in this thread but here it is:
http://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/10-pentax-slr-lens-discussion/140761-fitting-nikon-lenses-pentax-body.html
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Michael, if your run into problems with the conversion of the APO Lanthar, vi can set up a Skype meeting, then I can guide you trough the process.
Only thing you need is a Good quality screwdriver that fits the four screws on the mount.
This set is really nice since it has the slim shaft, smallest one tat can be used on Nikkor lenses for the light baffle and CPU contacts etc.
http://www.micro-tools.com/1eea0417b0f18bd600e4fa23f5e4d915/product.htm?pid=132775
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Michael, I already linked an image of how the lens should look like inside i.e. identical to a APO Lanthar.
Don't remove aperture rings or anything, a small steel ball will drop out if you do,,,
I can't find that link. Perhaps you could include it again. I have some screwdrivers, so that is good.
Thanks Andrea! I don't care about the "infinity" aspect, since I only do close-up, so the Fotodiox Pro Lens Mount Adapter -- Nikon F to Pentax K should work. It has a removable glass insert that works like this (see attachment).:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003EAUBDE?keywords=Nikon%20F%20Lens%20to%20Pentax%20K%20(PK)%20Mount%20Camera%20System%20(such%20as%20K-5IIs%2C%20K-500%2C%20K-50%2C%20K-3%2C%20K-S1%20and%20more)&qid=1456387638&ref_=sr_1_fkmr3_2&sr=8-2-fkmr3
If this adapter is solid, I should be able to experiment.
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Looking on Ebay, I can see some M42 compatible Ultrons, but no K-mount versions at this time.
If the lack of aperture coupling is not an issue for you, another option may be to drop a line to David Llado from Leitax (www.leitax.com) and see if he could provide you with a changeover bayonet mount.
Pentax K is one of the mounts that he makes to convert Leica R and Contax SLR lenses to the likes of Nikon and Pentax K bodies.
Alternatively get a junk Pentax K lens and remove its bayonet mount and get a spacer made up if infinity focus is important to you - as per Sten's link.
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Looking on Ebay, I can see some M42 compatible Ultrons, but no K-mount versions at this time.
If the lack of aperture coupling is not an issue for you, another option may be to drop a line to David Llado from Leitax (www.leitax.com) and see if he could provide you with a changeover bayonet mount.
Pentax K is one of the mounts that he makes to convert Leica R and Contax SLR lenses to the likes of Nikon and Pentax K bodies.
Alternatively get a junk Pentax K lens and remove its bayonet mount and get a spacer made up if infinity focus is important to you - as per Sten's link.
The FotoDiox adapter, minus the "infinity" glass, should work, if it works. But all of these ideas are worth looking into. Thanks.
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Alternatively get a junk Pentax K lens and remove its bayonet mount and get a spacer made up if infinity focus is important to you - as per Sten's link.
A negative spacer :o :o :o
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Sorry - I did not make myself clear - my apologies.
The idea was to replace the mount of the F-mount Nikon lens with a K-mount.
As Nikon bodies are 1mm "fatter" than the Pentax K bodies in terms of their longer register distance (46.5mm vs 45.5mm), a spacer will be needed to make up the 1mm register difference if infinity focus is to be obtained when the modified Nikon lens with its new K-mount is mounted on the Pentax K-Mount body.
A negative spacer :o :o :o
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The so-called SuperResolution mode, using a pixel-shift process in the new Pentax K1 (and in the previous K3), automatically takes 4 images by moving the entire image sensor one pixel in four directions and then synthesizes all four into a single resulting image. This 4-way pixel shift does use the EFC (Electronic Front Curtain), but it looks like the EFC is not available for regular shooting, which is a shame.
According to Lloyd Chambers (in his public blog) “In theory the K1 Super Resolution offers the most potent advance in image quality in years: full “true color” RGB pixels.”
Chamber’s notes on this process are very worth reading. Here is the link:
http://diglloyd.com/blog/2016/20160218_1331-PentaxK1-SuperResolutionMode.html
I have been wanting more megapixels and more definition, which the Pentax K1 seems to offer. The problem, which we have been looking at here, is lenses. Since I seldom shoot at infinity, but rather close-up and near-macro, I don’t need infinity with the lenses I use. The Fotodiox Pro Lens Mount Adapter -- Nikon F to Pentax K should work with all my Nikon F-mounted lenses, provided I don’t care about shooting at infinity, which I don’t. I may have 1mm of extension, which will probably not interfere too much with the lenses.
Someday Nikon will offer more Megapixels, and I am not about to sell my Nikon D810. In fact, if Nikon comes out with an upgrade to the D810, but leaves out the ISO 64, I will buy a second copy of the D810, and (hopefully) use the Pentax K1 for my high-definition work, provided it has no serious caveats. I consider the native ISO 64 worth more (to me) than all the high ISO that seems to attract most people. I never go there.
I am aware that I am being forced into a kind of limited box by technology advances (that are the ones I need), and realize that I actually have technique that is more important than just advances in technology, but if I think about it, Nikon just hasn’t offered any that interest me for some time now. This Pentax may buy me some time… or not. It remains to be seen if it is as good as it sounds.
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The so-called SuperResolution mode, using a pixel-shift process in the new Pentax K1 (and in the previous K3), automatically takes 4 images by moving the entire image sensor one pixel in four directions and then synthesizes all four into a single resulting image. This 4-way pixel shift does use the EFC (Electronic Front Curtain), but it looks like the EFC is not available for regular shooting, which is a shame.
According to Lloyd Chambers (in his public blog) “In theory the K1 Super Resolution offers the most potent advance in image quality in years: full “true color” RGB pixels.”
Chamber’s notes on this process are very worth reading. Here is the link:
http://diglloyd.com/blog/2016/20160218_1331-PentaxK1-SuperResolutionMode.html
I have been wanting more megapixels and more definition, which the Pentax K1 seems to offer. The problem, which we have been looking at here, is lenses. Since I seldom shoot at infinity, but rather close-up and near-macro, I don’t need infinity with the lenses I use. The Fotodiox Pro Lens Mount Adapter -- Nikon F to Pentax K should work with all my Nikon F-mounted lenses, provided I don’t care about shooting at infinity, which I don’t. I may have 1mm of extension, which will probably not interfere too much with the lenses.
Someday Nikon will offer more Megapixels, and I am not about to sell my Nikon D810. In fact, if Nikon comes out with an upgrade to the D810, but leaves out the ISO 64, I will buy a second copy of the D810, and (hopefully) use the Pentax K1 for my high-definition work, provided it has no serious caveats. I consider the native ISO 64 worth more (to me) than all the high ISO that seems to attract most people. I never go there.
I am aware that I am being forced into a kind of limited box by technology advances (that are the ones I need), and realize that I actually have technique that is more important than just advances in technology, but if I think about it, Nikon just hasn’t offered any that interest me for some time now. This Pentax may buy me some time… or not. It remains to be seen if it is as good as it sounds.
Michael, I've had the Pentax K3ii since May and have taken many high-res, pixel shift images with it. Based upon my personal experience by doing direct comparisons, the same image in the pixel shift mode has noticeably less noise, better color, and higher resolution.
Of course, as always, better lenses produce better images all else being equal.
I have most of the Zeiss ZK lenses. I also owned the Voigtlander 90mm lens in the Pentax K mount. After extensive testing on my Pentax K3ii camera, I recently ended up selling the Voigtlander 90mm lens in favor of the Zeiss ZK 85mm f/1.4 lens. So don't discount the Zeiss ZK lenses. Of course my testing is not done on macro subjects, it's done at normal landscape distances.
I currently own the Zeiss ZK 25mm f/2.8 lens. It is a macro lens with a "funky" reputation. I believe that this lens is for sale on ebay for a decent price. Might be fun to play with on your K1 when you receive it?
The Zeiss ZK 100mm macro does exist, but I can say with certainty that it has not appeared on ebay for sale during the last year.
The Zeiss ZK 50mm f/2 macro also exists. In the last year I've seen only one of these on ebay. It was sold with a buy it now and I missed out on buying it.
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BRUCESD:
Not interested in the Zeiss. Had some of them (50mm, 100mm Makro Planar) and sold them. Not corrected well enough. I know the Voigtlander 90mm close-up, and it is a superior lens.
Thanks for you notes. I will check out the K3II while I wait for the K1.
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OK. Thread is split. Here we are talking about adapters that can work with the Pentax K1.
Just to make my interest clear. I don’t need infinity, since I will use this camera for close-up and less-than-infinity work. So what I have done is order a FotoDiox adapter that adapts Nikon lenses to the Pentax K camera mount. This adapter has a piece of glass to adjust for infinity, but users point out the glass (in their opinion) ruins the lens. However if you can live without infinity, the glass simply can be removed.
We don’t know yet it the Pentax K1 will have all of what we need. We know at this point that it appears that this camera does NOT have EFC (Electronic Front Curtain) for normal shooting. However, it DOES have EFC when working in pixel-shift mode, which is the mode I will be using.
So, if we work in LiveView + Self-Timer, in SuperRes (pixel-shift) mode, we have EFC, which is what we need. Lloyd Chambers is blogging on this topic in detail. I pointed out to him my plan to use an adapter and forget about infinity, and he reminded me to be aware to check the adapter for anti-reflection measures (internal blackening), which is a good idea. His comments are very worth reading.
So, to sum up my approach. I will see how the FotoDiox adapter works out.
Fotodiox Pro Lens Mount Adapter, Nikon F Lens to Pentax K Cameras such as Pentax K-7, K-x, K-r, K-5, K-01 & K-30
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003EAUBDE?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00
In addition, as per this thread, I am looking to adapt lenses to the Pentax mount. I don’t know the Pentax lenses, and with few exceptions, the lenses don’t look that interesting for my work. Others may find them great.
So, I am taking lenses I know, like the Voigtlander 90mm SL lens, which can be found in Pentax K mount. I have one on order. In addition, I am looking at the parts needed to put a Pentax mount on an extra Voigtlander 125mm APO-Lanthar. That should give me real lenses that I know well to experiment with.
And finally, I have talked with the Novoflex distributor in North America (branch manager) and ordered the parts I need to mount the Pentax K1 on my Rollei X Act-2 technical bellows, which takes all the parts for the Novoflex Balpro Bellows. Then I can use my bellows lenses like the El Nikkor 105mm APO, and others. I had to special order the Pentax K mount.
The parts needed are:
Novoflex APRO 35mm Camera to Balpro-1 Adapter Ring (APRO)
Novoflex Adapter from Universal Bellows to Pentax K-Mount Cameras (PENTA)
In addition, I have ordered the Pentax K-3II, an older version of the Pentax K1, which also has the pixel-shift.
I can return or sell off what I don’t need, without losing a lot.
The point of all this trouble is to gain a 42MP image, arrived at by pixel-shift that should be clearer, better colors, and larger than what I can now get with the Nikon D810. I am still hoping that Nikon will get on the stick, but at least the Pentax, if it works, is a step toward the future that I feel I want to work with.
Your thoughts?
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Michael, in respect of your last point of your post above, have you had a look at Sigma's two new Merrill / Foveon cameras that were recently announced?
I notice that you tend to work within the lower ISO ranges of your D810, a range that the Foveon sensor is best at, and the newer sensors are likely to now have the resolution and colour performance that you are after.
What is your take?
Link: http://nikongear.net/revival/index.php/topic,2881.msg38814.html#msg38814
Link: http://nikongear.net/revival/index.php/topic,2877.msg38716.html#msg38716
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The point of all this trouble is to gain a 42MP image, arrived at by pixel-shift that should be clearer, better colors, and larger than what I can now get with the Nikon D810. I am still hoping that Nikon will get on the stick, but at least the Pentax, if it works, is a step toward the future that I feel I want to work with.
Your thoughts?
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Michael, in respect of your last point of your post above, have you had a look at Sigma's two new Merrill / Foveon cameras that were recently announced?
I had an earlier version of the Merrill and decided that it was too much trouble.
I have had many of the newer cameras A7r, A7s, Gh4, Sony FX-700, etc.
I realize...and am realizing that I am not a regular photographer. In fact, I am getting more and more specialized. I have found that the Nikons (and I have had most of their DSLRs) work well for me. Nikon is moving too slow for me these years.
I am interested in the new Pentax K1, but I don't think of it as my only camera, but more as an extension of the Nikon, the part of the Nikon that Nikon is not currently addressing.
Putting together a collection of lenses, some for standard close-up and other lenses, exotics, and special draws, etc. I am not about to abandon this group of lenses, nor do many of the newer lenses interest me much.
I am a fan of the Otus series, and other APOs. I want to use these and other fine lenses on a Nikon Body, etc.
I am not a camera/lens reviewer, but only a user of a certain kind or kinds of lenses. I need to finish my experiments and work with what I have... rather than switch to a camera that does not interest me. I am interested in the Pentax K1, so I am moving on, but I consider, as mentioned, it as an extension of what I have.
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The point of all this trouble is to gain a 42MP image, arrived at by pixel-shift that should be clearer, better colors, and larger than what I can now get with the Nikon D810. ....
I believe that you've misunderstood Pentax's pixel shift feature here Michael!
You won't get more resolution in terms of number of pixels.
You only get more resolution for the given number of pixels with Pentax's pixel shift technology.
They only shift the sensor 4 times so that each pixel site records all 3(or 4) pixel colours(remembering that 2 of those colours are both green .. so really 3 colours).
This only negates the need to interpolate each pixel with each of the three colours.
Basically, you won't see jaggies where you may see them in a non pixel shifted capture.
So you won't have any more than 36Mp with each capture! ..
Olympus have a super res sensor shift feature that does this .. but that's not how the Pentax system works(as far as the current specs state).
BUT! there's nothing to stop Pentax from updating the current pixel shift feature to allow a super hi res mode in the future with a firmware update.
That's a big IF to bet on tho!!
So if you want 'more resolution' in terms of number of pixels .. then you'd want or need either an Olympus with such a feature(eg. their new Pen F) .. gives you roughly 50Mp with the 8 pixel shift feature.
Or you want a Canon 5Dsr(r as in no AA filter) .. or a Pentax 645z or whatever other higher pixel count camera.
But I don't think you'll be getting what you think you're getting with the K-1 .. and that's more megapixels to work with.
I've taken the liberty to link to DPR's studio webpage so you can gain some insight as to what a pixel shifted image may actually give you.
Hopefully it works as I wanted to link it:
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/image-comparison?attr18=daylight&attr13_0=pentax_k3ii&attr13_1=pentax_k3ii&attr13_2=canon_eos5dsr&attr13_3=olympus_penf&attr15_0=raw&attr15_1=raw&attr15_2=raw&attr15_3=raw&attr16_0=100&attr16_1=100&attr16_2=100&attr16_3=200&attr126_0=normal&attr126_1=highres&attr126_3=highres&attr171_3=off&normalization=full&widget=1&x=-0.6246794871794872&y=-0.6246600344864363 (http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/image-comparison?attr18=daylight&attr13_0=pentax_k3ii&attr13_1=pentax_k3ii&attr13_2=canon_eos5dsr&attr13_3=olympus_penf&attr15_0=raw&attr15_1=raw&attr15_2=raw&attr15_3=raw&attr16_0=100&attr16_1=100&attr16_2=100&attr16_3=200&attr126_0=normal&attr126_1=highres&attr126_3=highres&attr171_3=off&normalization=full&widget=1&x=-0.6246794871794872&y=-0.6246600344864363)
Basically what you should see is that in the comparison windows you have two K3-II samples one with Pixel Shift off and the other on.
You can see that on the diagonal lines area, the pixel shifted Pentax K3-II image displays no jaggies(steps on diagonal lines) .. the non Pixel Shifted image does tho.
Then you see a Canon 5Dsr image below to show how this relates to a 50Mp image too .. if you look closely you can just make out jaggies .. and if you scan the rest of the studio scene, you can also see some moire as well. The Olympus certainly displays the 'most resolution' both in terms of actual pixel count and acuity as well. note the star wheels in the scene too.
Both 5Dsr and K3-II(standard) show some moire towards the centre of the star wheel, K3-II less so(could be considered nil) .. but the Olympus Pen-F is basically as good as you get before heading into medium format territory.
Also note that if a regular 14bit NEF file is going to be roughly 75-90Mb in size, then you'd assume similar from Pentax either as a PEF or DNG .. then 4 x that will yield at least a 300-400Mb single raw file using pixel shift on the K-1.
Something else to think about too.
Hope that helps.
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The doctored file is said to be 42 MPix. Even though 4 frames are taken, only 1 (with massaged data) is output.
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The images I posted links to displaying the K-1's pixel shift capability clearly shows that it does not just reduce jaggies, it provides a considerably higher level of fine detail. The number of pixels are the same, but the level of detail captured is not at all the same. It does not appear to be as modest an increase as 42mp.
It is obviously limited in use to static scenarios, but I would rather have a 36mp sensor that can provide a detail boost in static scenarios while providing lower noise in most general scenarios. The non-studio images from the 5Dr, for example, do not impress me as much as the K-1's.
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It is colour fidelity that is claimed to be increased, not resolution per se. After all the sensor is just shifted a single pixel in either direction ....
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Also note that if a regular 14bit NEF file is going to be roughly 75-90Mb in size, then you'd assume similar from Pentax either as a PEF or DNG .. then 4 x that will yield at least a 300-400Mb single raw file using pixel shift on the K-1.
Something else to think about too.
Hope that helps.
Arthur: Can you say a little more about this storage issue and how these four are combined.
Thanks Arthur, Tristin, and Bjørn for clearing this up. Obviously, I am going from what I read (and imagined), not from actual experience.
I can live with 36 MPx, provided the color improves. In my lens journey, it is color correction that has driven me, so less “jaggies,” etc. and the resulting better definition is what I am after, but color fidelity is what I most appreciate.
And, I am prepared to send stuff back or sell it off. For me, this is a reach beyond what Nikon is offering, until the Nikon boat comes along, if it does. So, side-stepping the need to interpolate is worth it in itself.
Looking at the chart on the DPR link (which is very helpful), the result of the pixel-shift Pentax K3II is what I am seeing there, but I will be working toward receiving the Pentax K1 36 MPx camera.
I am not about to jump into the latest Hasselblad system, but only (at this point) seeking to extend what I don’t have in the Nikon D810, which I am generally very happy with, especially the ISO 64. In fact, I have always been interested in advances in true basic ISO, not in higher and higher ISO. I shoot stills, on tripod, and value BLACKS above high ISO.
Obviously, there is a lot I have to learn here, which is why I am getting a Pentax K3II, to get started.
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A little pointless to split the thread and then continue to talk camera in the new lens thread :o ::) :D
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A little pointless to split the thread and then continue to talk camera in the new lens thread :o ::) :D
Let's change the title, but these are the things I need to talk about, to get things clear and some camera stuff straightened out. Call it what you want, but lets us talk as we will. I am not trying to change the topic, but rather to collect various details and understand how to take advantage of this new camera AND the older lenses. The camera and lenses go together. I was happy with the first thread, but some were not.
I don't care what you call it, but it would help to let us just work through our process here. Thanks. The title says it "Camera and Lens Adaptations." Both are important IMO.
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I don't care what you call it, but it would help to let us just work through our process here. ...
OK, I will let you work without interfering further.
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http://richardhaw.com/2016/02/26/cp-2016-pt-1/
the K-1 at today's CP+ :o :o :o
just some commentaries...
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OK, I will let you work without interfering further.
I don't consider it interfering, but there has to be a place where we can discuss both the camera and the problems involved in trying to interface another lens mount. I originally joined the first thread to be polite, but I had specific questions, and also extending myself in gathering all this equipment, etc. I should have just started my own thread, etc.
It won't happen again. I was trying to consolidate the Pentax discussion, but now see that my concerns are more specialized. So we will be discussing the Camera and other lens mounts... and whatever else interests us about this camera.
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Michael, I have a Voigtlander Ultron 40mm in the Pentax K mount that I was about to list for sale on the Internet. Are you still looking for this lens?
Dave in Wisconsin
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I have an update on the Pentax-1 and related Pentax cameras. I have put off reporting this until Lloyd Chambers posted his blog, because some of my information came from his research and diligence. In preparation for the release of the new Pentax K1, both Chambers and I picked up the previous camera, the Pentax K3II, so we could be familiar with the menus and the way the camera worked.
I tested out the Pentax K3II on various lenses, both in native Pentax mount and using the Fotodix Nikon-lenses-to-Pentax-K-camera adaptor. The adapter has piece of glass that allows you to get infinity focus, but the glass is not good enough, so that the lens you are trying to mount is degraded to the point of being unusable for my purposes.
I tried to remove the glass as per instructions, but it never worked, so I had to literally punch it out. I found that the adapter works for lenses like the Noct Nikkor and the El Nikkor 105mm APO lenses, but would not properly focus using the CV-125 or the various Otus lenses.
I did try the Pentax K3ii on various bellows units, which allowed me to use any bellows-type lens, so that works.
However, I soon ran into trouble implementing the pixel-shift feature, which is when I turned to Lloyd Chambers for advice. I read some of Chamber’s columns, which have saved me a ton of money, and this Pentax thing is a good example. I did not know how to properly test the EFC (Electronic Front Curtain) to see if it functioned properly, but Chambers did. To our mutual disappointment, it was not implemented properly and this is true not only for the older Pentax K3II, but also for the forthcoming Pentax K1 (and other Pentax cameras), which is a big disappointment.
Since I often stack many layers, I depend on reducing shutter-shake, mirror shake, and so on as much as possible. I ran into this with my Sony A7r, which I eventually returned for a refund. I understand they have fixed it now.
I like the Pentax K3II. It is and feels like a real camera. However, at the deep-down nitty-gritty that I depend on, there is a bit of chaos holding forth and things are not well thought out. For one, it is very difficult to use LiveView without the camera banging down mirror when the shutter is released. And they demand you use the self-timer, which only offers the choice of 2 seconds or 12 seconds, and nothing in between. Two seconds is not always enough to allow vibrations to die down, etc.
There are many things I did not like, such as you can set the self-time option, but when you turn the camera off, it unsets, so you have to re-set it every time you turn it on, unless you build a custom profile. I will not go into all the annoying idiosyncrasies, but a lot for me had to do with not being able to adjust shutter or aperture and see the effects, but having to wait to look at a finished photo, etc.
However, the reason for buying this camera was solely the benefit of the pixel-shift, which is such a slight movement that anything but EFC would degrade it for stacked work, or could. That did it for me.
I have returned my K3II, cancelled my order for the K1, and still have a few things left. One thing I found was a rare CV-90mm SL close-up lens in Pentax mount, which not many are available. I will sell that when the K1 comes out, because it is a great lens.
So, that’s the story. I thank Lloyd Chambers for his help and for his instructive columns. I needed them.
It may be possible that Pentax could fix this in firmware, but since earlier cameras were never modified, I am not hopeful. I am back to hoping that Nikon will bring out a 50 MPx camera soon.
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The ancient story of 'grass is greener on the other side' repeats itself. Thanks for the heads-up.
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The ancient story of 'grass is greener on the other side' repeats itself. Thanks for the heads-up.
What interested me was the interest in color and the fact the the subtle pixel-shift would perhaps offer more pure color and better micro-contrast, and larger photosites (or whatever the term is). I am not looking to switch brands.
My experience within the Nikon camp is greater than my interest just in technology, for the most part. I just wish Nikon would catch up a bit. If Nikon keeps dragging their heels, I will buy a second D810 and not worry about the future. Or, if Nikon comes out with a camera, but abandons the ISO 64, which is wonderful, I will not go there.
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Michael, this has been a sad outcome for you. I guess that it is still better to do your homework up front, as you have, and to find out the bad news early.
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As I understand it, it is not the pixel shift technology that there is anything wrong with, but rather Pentax's implementation of everything else around it. Pentax could easily have implemented a proper EFCS in LV mode without slamming the mirror up and down. Also EFCS in mirror-up mode with a proper delay should have bern easy. Olympus has implemented a similar pixel shift technology without any of Pentax's limitations in the OM-D series. And no, it doesn't matter if mirrorless or DSLR regarding a properly implemented pixel shift technology, since the LV mode on the Pentax K-1 should have bern able to work exactly like a mirrorless OM-D.
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While the D300 doesn't have EFC, it also had the annoyance of slamming the mirror both down and then up again when using LiveView mode ... so made the Lv experience one to avoid other than for achieving accurate focusing.
Surely those Pentax's annoyances could be fixed with a firmware update?