NikonGear'23
Gear Talk => Lens Talk => Topic started by: Michael Erlewine on February 16, 2016, 17:37:11
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It has taken me a little while to adapt this incredible lens to my wishes, but I am getting there. Here is a photo taken with the Nikon D810 with the Noct, ISO 64, and stacked lightly using Zerene Stacker.
The idea here is to stack a couple of areas, in this case two, and to leave the rest for bokeh. This was not done wide open because wide-open the Noct has razor-thin DOF, almost too thin to stack. But I am happy with this approach and confident I will find still others. It represents a different take on using the Noct Nikkor.
I must agree with those who feel this is a special. It is worth every penny.
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Congratulations on your new lens and the excellent results you are able to make it deliver for you :D
I noticed you have a different stacking strategy for this lens and apparently that is a wise move.
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Your first results are promising. This seems to be the real deal now. Cannot wait to see field work when weather condition become better.
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I concur, really pleasing, crisp and nice ;)
I like the lens best at around f/1.8 - f/2.5 I actually added the extra half click stops to mine,,,
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Another shot with the D810 and the Noct, with some stacking, Zerene Stacker.
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Magical flow in the leaf part...
your pictures make me happy 100 times a day whenever I pick up
my phone. Your pictures are there as BG every day for many months
now. Thank you for making my life more pleasent!!!!
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Very fine shot
and lens of course ;-)
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A different but great use of the Noct Michael!
I will have a Noct in soon for testing/comparison to my NeoNoct.
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Another Noct stack, D810, Zerene Stacker
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I feel this lens fits perfectly into your daily meditation!
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It doesn't get much better than this! Thanks Michael ;)
I must say that I'm impressed by the D810 vs my old workhorse the D3X, quite a leap in sensor quality - The natural feel and color tones/graduations are amazing!
I'm pleased I upgraded,,,
So much for highly corrected lenses - The reason Nikon lens designers chooses a balanced optical design; Abrasions, Bokeh vs Sharpness is quite obvious for everybody reading these Noct_nikkor and the 58mm AFS G 1.4 threads by now,,,
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Wonderful results Michael! Your new stacking strategy pays off big time and produces stunning results! Well done!!
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It doesn't get much better than this! Thanks Michael ;)
I must say that I'm impressed by the D810 vs my old workhorse the D3X, quite a leap in sensor quality - The natural feel and color tones/graduations are amazing!
I'm pleased I upgraded,,,
So much for highly corrected lenses - The reason Nikon lens designers chooses a balanced optical design; Abrasions, Bokeh vs Sharpness is quite obvious for everybody reading these Noct_nikkor and the 59mm AFS G 1.4 threads by now,,,
The D3x first introduced me to the value of real blacks; the D810 improves on this with the ISO 64.
As for APO (highly-corrected lenses), I love them, but I also love the unique lenses that have a special draw, like the Noct, the CRT-Nikkor, the El Nikkor 105 APO, and some of the industrials.
I think you meant to write 58mm, not 59mm.
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Textures are incredible.
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I'm pleased I upgraded,,,
Hold the phone ... you've upgraded?? Away from your D3x??
All fun aside, great stuff Michael. It seems that the path you've taken to move to lighter stacks with less "perfect" lenses. I also like the results very much, moving from the technical immaculate deep stacks to the more artful shallow stacks. Beautiful.
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I also like the results very much, moving from the technical immaculate deep stacks to the more artful shallow stacks. Beautiful.
I couldn't say better ! ;D
These images are really beautiful, poetic. Just the result of both great expertise and a very special lens.
Cheers, Francis.
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Unique and beautiful. Not many people can do this sort of work - thank you
JJ
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My first-take experiments with the Nikon Noct have reached a turning point. I have more to do, but it will be outside when spring comes. My take-away at this time is that, for my kind of close-up work, I will use the Noct wide open or stopped down a bit, either in a single shot or stacked lightly. If stacked, perhaps a shot wide-open for background, and then one or two inscapes, tightly stacked, painting focus on one or a few areas that I want in focus. And because of the fact that this lens is very sharp in the center, but rolls off quickly, I find that it takes extension well, either the K1-Ring (5.8mm) or larger, like the PK-12 (14mm), and this is often needed for close-up work.
This is not a walk-around lens for me, but a specialized lens to add to the series of lenses with “character” or a unique draw that I have assembled. It is very expensive ($3K), but worth the money in that it will serve well for years to come. It really is a wonderful and unique lens, as I had heard all these years. The recent Nikon replacement, as I study the specs will not be the same, in that there is a stronger difference in resolution in the center for the original Noct, and the new lens has better resolution at the edge, but I would rather have the greater roll-off at the edges that the original Noct provides. The new version probably is not something I need.
So, I will continue to experiment with this lens and update here if I have other insights into its use.
This photo taken with the Noct, the D810, the PK-12 extension, and Zerene Stacker.
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There is a tenderness towards nature in your shots .. love?
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There is a tenderness towards nature in your shots .. love?
Love of nature, for sure.
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Amazing images Michael, it really shows how you both get used to each other!
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I continue to experiment with the Noct Nikkor on the D810 for close-up work. Can’t say that I have had any more break-throughs, but I am getting a better grasp on what the lens can do for my kind of work. Here are three done with the Nikon D810, stacker with Zerene Stacker. The lens does have a use for close-ups, a great draw, and a look all its own.
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wonderful colors, great micro constrast and fine rendering of structures - and a good BG bokeh!
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Michael, You have perfected your craft. Looking at your pictures makes me feel I am reading very lyric poems.
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According to this webpage (http://www.photosynthesis.co.nz/nikon/lenses.html), others, there are actually two versions of the Noct Nikkor 58mm f/1.2 (an Ai and an AiS).
The Ai is a 7-blade lens with a 230° focus throw, while the AiS is a 9-blade lens with only a 140° focus throw.
The Ai is also the elder, and also slightly-heavier, version.
Curious which version is considered superior to the other ...
Jack
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I own both (AI, AIS) and the difference is less than people imagine.
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I own both (AI, AIS) and the difference is less than people imagine.
If someone held the proverbial gun to your head, and forced you to keep one, while parting with the other ...
Which would you keep; with which would you part :D
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I'd keep both. The Noct is on the list of lenses for which I need to have redundancy and backup items. Others are CV 125/2.5 APO, UV-Nikkor 105, 200/2, 300/2.8, etc.
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In your original response, you said, "The difference is less than people imagine," which implies there is a qualitative difference (even if negligible).
Do you care to expound on this difference?
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Apparently there is a slightly less field curvature in the AIS. Do note the Noct is not a flat-field design any way.
Bokeh might be a tad smoother with the AIS. Wide open no difference of course.
I doubt the differences, although can be shown, have any significant impact on the final outcome.
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Apparently there is a slightly less field curvature in the AIS. Do note the Noct is not a flat-field design any way.
Bokeh might be a tad smoother with the AIS. Wide open no difference of course.
I doubt the differences, although can be shown, have any significant impact on the final outcome.
Interesting, thank you.
The Ai has double the focus throw, however.
Any advantage/disadvantage to this that you've noted?
Thanks again.
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Their price on the market is severely inflated due to collectors. Do not blame the lenses for this, though.
I got my Nocts for ridiculously low to very acceptable price though.
Also important to note that with many modern cameras one cannot properly focus such lenses, due to the groundglass of the finder being far too bright and fine-grained. The Df is pretty all right, though, and I will shortly install a darker and more coarse-grained screen into it.
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Their price on the market is severely inflated due to collectors. Do not blame the lenses for this, though.
I got my Nocts for ridiculously low to very acceptable price though.
Also important to note that with many modern cameras one cannot properly focus such lenses, due to the groundglass of the finder being far too bright and fine-grained. The Df is pretty all right, though, and I will shortly install a darker and more coarse-grained screen into it.
You evaded my questions ;D
Yes, when viewed through the viewfinder ... but using the LCD blown-up 10x I would imagine the focus would be even keener.
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The right amount of focus throw is very personal and different to focus length, system and focal length among others,,, So one singel lens is seldom right for everything, another reason many people here has many lenses of each focal length to choose from, not just to 'must have them all',,,,
Many of the Ai lenses are build with this, slower' longer focus throw that is nice especially for close-up work, These old Ai lenses have longer helical focusing threads so also more 'drag' to the focus feel especially with heave grease like #30 instead of #10 for instance.
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i can second that.
focus throw is a personal thing and will depend on the situation. (that is why i own several versions of some lenses) :o :o :o
shorter focus throw is great for street and documentary where subjects zip in and out so you want to be able to keep up. the bad thing about that is that you lose a couple of important markers for distances. as an example, the 35mm f/2.8 Ai goes from 1m-5m-infinity(i think). while it is OK and negligible to some people, to somebody like me, the missing numbers between 1-5m will make my focusing a lot less precise, so I bought a 35mm f/2.8 version that has at least a 2m and now i am happy with it for the fast pace street style (candid) that i do.
for studio and slow careful stuff, i would prefer the longer throw. ::)
one thing that i do to mitigate any of these problems is having a lens with a long focus throw (55mm f/1.2 K) re-lubed with a much lighter grease. the reverse is also true for lenses with short focus throw (28mm f/2.8 Ai), I used a heavier grease so that i wont miss my focus while shooting on the street.
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You evaded my questions ;D
Yes, when viewed through the viewfinder ... but using the LCD blown-up 10x I would imagine the focus would be even keener.
Not evading at all, just sticking to the facts. Sometimes there is not a simple yes/no answer to a question.
Unfortunately, LiveView is not always the answer for focusing accuracy. The image might dissolve into static noise when you really need to see the details. Even the much touted EVF of the Sony A7 series can fail badly with the Noct. I have tried under field conditions if you are puzzled about this observation.
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I have a question for Bjørn. When I have a lens like the Coastal Optics 60mm APO, which has a ridiculously small (for my work) focus throw, it was easier for me just to put the lens-camera on a focus rail where I have a longer focus throw via the rail. My question is:
What is the difference between using a helicoid on a lens and mounting a lens-fixed-on-a-camera on a focus rail and using that longer throw? My understanding is that the helicoid is better for stacking focus than a focus rail.
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The Coastal 60 has a CRC mechanism. Thus there is a difference in its optical performance when you use the focusing helicoid vs. putting the camera + lens on a focusing rail, the first being the better alternative. However, as the difference in actual magnification for your stacking purpose is likely small, and with the lens already focused to approximately the correct distance, the reduction in quality using the focusing rail should be small as well.
The real question is what method for focusing the stacking software deals with in an optimal manner. When I started with Zerene, I assumed that a fixed perspective would be optimal, thus kept the lens front stationary and changed extension, but that proved to be not so good option for the software. Fixed magnification and a change in perspective appears to be better. The last alternative, changing perspective *and* magnification concurrently, still has to be the least satisfactory.
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The Coastal 60 has a CRC mechanism. Thus there is a difference in its optical performance when you use the focusing helicoid vs. putting the camera + lens on a focusing rail, the first being the better alternative. However, as the difference in actual magnification for your stacking purpose is likely small, and with the lens already focused to approximately the correct distance, the reduction in quality using the focusing rail should be small as well.
The real question is what method for focusing the stacking software deals with in an optimal manner. When I started with Zerene, I assumed that a fixed perspective would be optimal, thus kept the lens front stationary and changed extension, but that proved to be not so good option for the software. Fixed magnification and a change in perspective appears to be better. The last alternative, changing perspective *and* magnification concurrently, still has to be the least satisfactory.
Yes,Rik Littlefield claims that the order of preference is (1) the best is bellows, moving rear standard, (2) is focusing the lens, (3) least best is focus rail. Thanks.