NikonGear'23
Gear Talk => Processing & Publication => Topic started by: Frank Fremerey on September 22, 2015, 09:57:07
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After being heavy user of Nikon Capture 3 and 4 including Camera Control and Nikon Capture NX and NX2 today I have not even installed NX-D.
Currently I use photo ninja 125 with Andrea and Bjørn being my guides for the first steps. Plus Photoshop CC and Google Nik and Tom Niemans PT Lens.
Is there anybody in our ranks who can write a short or longer rant on
NX-D???
Please?
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I installed NX-D and took a look at it. It seems to be software for people who are not really photographers and/or are satisfied with results which are, at best, a compromise. I won't be using it.
If/when I buy a camera which NX-2 can't handle, I will use ACR or Iridient. I like Iridient a lot, but it doesn't fit easily into my normal workflow, unfortunately. That is something I hope to change because as well as its very comprehensive conversion/editing tools, it has the best sharpening algorithms in the business. It is also very inexpensive.
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Have you tried PhotoNinja, Dave?
I keep hearing good things about Iridient, by the way. A pity it is Mac only.
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I have installed NX-d twice, 1. when it just came out , uninstalled it after a couple of days, 2. Again a few months later after it has had a few fixes , uninstalled it after a couple of hours.
I used CNX2 exclusively from 2009 until 2014 and really liked the results, took me quite a while to finally figure out ACR to get results that are very close to what I can achieve from CNX2, and the two areas where I think the nikon software is unique are :
1. colors and contrast look EXACTLY as they are shown on the camera, ACR gets a very close approximation ones selects the right camera profile, I have tried PN a couple of times and I have so far being unsuccessful to get the colors I want
2. Sharpness, the images processed by CNX2 seem sharp with no artifacts, the images I process via ACR are now very close to those results, but I have to be careful so noise doesn't become a problem, PN gets also very sharp images, and also have to careful not to create artifacts
CNXD is terrible slow and unresponsive on my laptop running Win 7 , SSD and 8GB RAM
I have tried canon software, Fuji software, Sigma software, LR, PS ... and so far I think NXD is the slowest - that is hard to accomplish considering the Sigma software is in the comparison - and my opinion is that it has one of the ugliest and less professional looking interfaces , NXD is a very significant step back from the latest CNX2 version.
One should not forget that the processed files from NXD look just as good as the files processed by CNX2, but if you need to edit more than 1 file .... the performance and usability quickly become a huge hindrance.
And there is the functional differences vs CNX2, mostly around selective edits, but I will not get into that.
NXD is THE REASON I looked for alternatives to do the NEF processing.
I still on occasions use CNX2
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Have you tried PhotoNinja, Dave?
I keep hearing good things about Iridient, by the way. A pity it is Mac only.
No, I haven't but I may do so soon. With NX-D almost useless and NX-2 not being developed beyond its current state, there is room for another dependable raw converter. I had forgotten that Iridient is Mac-only - a pity, as you say. It is an excellent piece of software but a little awkward for my workflow. I don't like DxO, and that leaves only ACR in the heavyweight division of conversion softs. Bjørn J. and I have been chatting about ACR, and I have been trying it again after a long period of non-use. It is certainly much better than it used to be, but I still find it hard to like. But - and this an the important point - with Bjørn's help I discovered that some very unpleasant blotchy noise I was having trouble with, was being introduced by NX-2. Processing the files in ACR gave a much cleaner, and blotch-free, result. A series of simple tests since that discovery show that, with longish exposures (5-25secs), NX-2 introduces blotchy artefacts at ISO400 and above, which cannot be eradicated by any noise-reduction software (and I have several).
I do agree with Armando, however, that NX-2 produces the best and most accurate colour, and for that reason alone I will probably continue to use it for files where noise is unlikely to be a problem.
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Iridient does not appear to support D4s and D810 yet. I am still using CNX-2, even for D810 (but must convert to TIFF first in that case). Haven't made up my mind concerning a good alternative to CNX-2 yet (however, NX-D is nothing for me).
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Iridient does not appear to support D4s and D810 yet. I am still using CNX-2, even for D810 (but must convert to TIFF first in that case). Haven't made up my mind concerning a good alternative to CNX-2 yet (however, NX-D is nothing for me).
Sorry, Tersn, but you are wrong there. If you look at their current list of supported cameras (http://www.iridientdigital.com/products/rawdeveloper_cameras.html (http://www.iridientdigital.com/products/rawdeveloper_cameras.html)) you will see that both the D4S aand D810 are supported. Even the D810A is on the list.
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I wonder if anyone else has tried Affinity yet? It is a bit of a complex wrench for me after using such simple software (NX2, Photo Ninja) for the last gazillion years. But it does seem promising. I think I might keep trying to learn it.
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Andrea, i have. But, don't get your hopes up on the raw conversion abilities :(
The image editing seems quite alright (keep in mind i'm not, nor have i ever been, a photoshop heavy user). Most stuff is there that one would find in photoshop or alike.
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Sorry, Tersn, but you are wrong there. If you look at their current list of supported cameras (http://www.iridientdigital.com/products/rawdeveloper_cameras.html (http://www.iridientdigital.com/products/rawdeveloper_cameras.html)) you will see that both the D4S aand D810 are supported. Even the D810A is on the list.
I think that is good (nothing to be sorry about) :) For some (unknown) reason I must have opened an old camera list for Iridient.
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Hans, yes I do see that the generic profile is not quite right yet for my d810 in Affinity. I tried to determine how to add camera profiles to Affinity but have not yet figured it out.
I am intrigued by the fact that Affinity offers localization of the raw edits in the Develop Persona prior to moving to the Edit Persona (or whatever it is called??). For anyone not familiar with Affinity, the Develop Persona is equivalent to ACR. Either Develop or ACR are used before moving into the main tools area of Affinity or Photoshop, respectively.
This thread prompts me to download up-to-date versions of NXD and ViewNX2. Just to see what is going on. In the past I have found that ViewNX2 was easy enough to use in order to preserve Nikon's in-camera settings (which I really like to make use of) and to easily convert the NEF to a TIF for further edits.
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I agree with HCS, Affinity's raw conversion is not great. PN is noticeably better.
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Hans, yes I do see that the generic profile is not quite right yet for my d810 in Affinity. I tried to determine how to add camera profiles to Affinity but have not yet figured it out.
I am intrigued by the fact that Affinity offers localization of the raw edits in the Develop Persona prior to moving to the Edit Persona (or whatever it is called??). For anyone not familiar with Affinity, the Develop Persona is equivalent to ACR. Either Develop or ACR are used before moving into the main tools area of Affinity or Photoshop, respectively.
This thread prompts me to download up-to-date versions of NXD and ViewNX2. Just to see what is going on. In the past I have found that ViewNX2 was easy enough to use in order to preserve Nikon's in-camera settings (which I really like to make use of) and to easily convert the NEF to a TIF for further edits.
I never stopped using ViewNX2.
The skin tones are best preserved!
From View NX2 if needed RAW to PhotoNinja, then TIFF to Photoshop.
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I just downloaded NX-D and am giving it a spin. My opinion so far is that NX-D is definitely not a replacement for Capture NX2. Too much has gone missing. I am certainly not the first one to say this!
NX-D Ergonomics: Mostly very painful. A couple of good things.
- The app is all black background in preview pane and toolbars. When I get the tools open that I want to use, it is difficult to find them quickly and to find particular parts of them.
- In the Edit palette, there seems to be no logic behind the placement of the tool icons. Six of them are on separate menu bars. The remainder are on one menu bar.
- When I apply an edit, the preview has one of those totally annoying refresh "hiccups". The preview goes black and redraws in jerky chunks. I'm on a fast 64-bit machine, so there is no excuse for this. A couple of times the preview went black and never returned at all!!
- The app is sloooooow. Again, no excuse.
- Nice feature: Split screen for before and after views of foto edits. I like that. But if you have tools open, they cover some of the after preview.
- Good thing: Cmd-H and Cmd-S still trigger blown highlights and blocked shadows. But now it works even if the cursor is not over the foto.
Can I do what I need to do to get a NEF on its way as a TIF for further sharpening and editing? Let's see....
To mimic NX2's Develop section, click the NX-D white balance, picture control, exposure control, noise reduction and camera corrections icons. - In-camera settings for white balance, picture control, noise and active d-lighting can be tweaked as though still in-camera. Also distortions or CA control can be enabled. All these settings work as they do in NX2.
- Noise reduction: Whether or not you enable NR in-camera, the NR tool provided in Develop always worked well, imho. Works still the same in NX-D. I can see myself maybe using NX-D occasionally on certain files because of Nikon's good NR.
- White balance: No more capability to draw a marquee of any size for white balance averaging. Only a little box can be drawn with the gray dropper. I'm not sure this would greatly affect my work, but I still would miss it.
- NX-D permits use of the new Pic Controls with the clarity slider even if the foto under edit was made on an older camera. That is nice.
To mimix NX2 Quick Fix settings, it is slightly trickier. Click the NX-D exposure control (if not used above), tone and tone detail icons.
- You will get the old NX2 Quick Fix exposure/contrast/highlight/shadow/saturation sliders and also sliders for brightness/D-lighting. The Quick Fix histogram can be replicated by the LCH tool.
- The Tone slider for D-lighting is not the same as in-camera ADL.
- Dealing with highlights/shadows/brightness/saturation in NX2 was always best done, imho, with those wonderful colour control points, so I never made much use of the Quick Fix sliders except for the exposure compensation slider. YMMV, of course.
- The LCH tool is great. Works just like in NX2. For Quick Fix replication, I used LCH's histogram to fine tune black/white point settings and for the usual global curving which I used to do on the QF histo.
At this point NEF development could be considered complete, just as it would in NX2. So you could Save As a TIFF and finish local edits elsewhere. Save As has been renamed Convert File. And NX-D has no blankety-blank idea where the file came from originally, so just like in NX2 you have to lead the app to the location where you want the saved file to land. Geez, even my lowly PSElements knows where the original file lived when doing a Save As.
NX-D offers a bit more for global edits: LCH (Lightness, Saturation, Hue panels), Levels & Curves, Straighten and Unsharp Mask. The NX2 LCH tool I always thought to be excellent and I used it a lot. However, I always made the most use of it for local edits by applying changes with the NX2 Brush.
My personal opinion on Unsharp Mask, in either NX2 or NX-D, is that I infinitely prefer Nikon's in-camera Sharpness setting for getting the fuzz off the photo prior to more sophisticated sharpening techniques. That Pic Control setting is very interesting. I've never quite been able to replicate it with USM, although I grant you I probably did not try too hard. "-)
Gaussian blur is gone, so no more sharpening via a 2-pixel gaussian blur overlay. I used that a LOT in NX2 for local detail work.
I think that if I use NX-D at all - perhaps for some D810 work - it would be by creating a preset for a particular shoot and batching out some TIFs. The slowness of the app and the general clunkiness makes one-at-a-time foto edits way too tedious.
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Screen shot of my NX-D workspace.
I opened and docked the tools I would most likely use frequently. You can see that some different colour bars would be useful for finding your way around the docked tools.
Of course you could leave the tools all undocked and only click them open them as you need them. But I work back & forth between the settings, changing things more than once before I'm happy with a final result.
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Here is the foto I was working on. The NX-D rendition is very very good. Excellent detail. And I managed to control the highlights in the steam and water.
But the scene needs to be brought into a more realistic view. The trees are not that dark. The sky is not intense enough. There needs to be more light in the foreground. And NX-D lacks a dust bunny tool to deal with the dried spray across the lens that happens when you shoot thermal features all afternoon. Didn't notice it of course until I got back to the hotel later.
So I popped the NX-D TIFF into NX2 for those minor edits - all made quickly with colour or selection points. And the dust bunny brush.
BTW, while in NX-D, the TIFF can be sent to the next app of your choice by creating an app menu in NX-D preferences and then right-clicking the app icon to choose which one. Nice feature.
[1] Beehive Geyser, Yellowstone National Park, Wyoming, USA. After NX-D before NX2.
This geyser, behind the mound of Old Faithful, erupted immediately after Old Faithful finished. A double treat!
Yes, this scene is a bit boring. But is had some subtleties which are a good test for a converter - fine detail, strong contrasts, part high sat, part low sat.
[2] Blue sky splatter from steamy thermal springs.
[3] Beehive Geyser. After additional tweaks in NX2.
The scene could perhaps use slightly more contrast, so I may take it back into NX2 later.
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NX-D is slow. I tried PN, and did not get better results than ACR, but I might not know what to look for or what to do. PN is also slower than ACR and requires an extra step to make local adjustments.
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Yes.
So Nikon does not have a solution and most of the other camera makers like Canon. Fuji. Olympus. Sony. They all do not have a real solution.
What do we do?
Spend half of our live waiting for some RAW to develop?
I see
I shoot
I want to print and show!
Currently I try to cope with PN.
D......A......R.....N
S.....L......O.....W
but PN rewards the patience and I get a great TIFF to put into PS CC and GOOGLE NIK COLLECTION
plus everything I know about Photoshop after Dan Margulis and 11 years.
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Frank, you do not need a tiff to get from PN to CC. You can set PN up as a filter so that the image moves directly from PN to CC with no intermediate stage. It is a big time saver.
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Thank you Anthony. I read that PN can be used as a kind of plugin
for Photoshop. I did not yet dig into it because since I use presets
in a sensible way things got much faster. Only batching is very
slow even compared to CNX2.
What I really like is I can use NEF and RAF mixed and do not need
two programmes. As I got accustomed to PN I really like what I can
do with it.
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So Nikon does not have a solution and most of the other camera makers like Canon. Fuji. Olympus. Sony. They all do not have a real solution.
......
Nikon did, but seemed to follow in other manufacturer's footsteps then.
CNX-2 for me was more than enough more often than not.
(my only major gripe with CNX-2 was the lack of a proper clone/heal tool)
CNX-D would have been a great upgrade for ViewNX2, considering the more plentiful tools CNX-D offered compared to VNX2.
So for Nikon to announce CNX-D as the successor to CNX-2 was a major step backwards.
Then they announced the replacement for ViewNX2 a short while later, which is now ViewNX-i. (I think the i represents the idiot in idiots edition!)
This was another 2 steps backwards .. which makes for at least 3 steps backwards from Nikon from the point of view of software support.
My major gripe with Nikon's new software solution, is that of tagging raw files via the IPTC framework.
Where CNX-2 and VNX-2 added IPTC/keyword tagging into the NEF file(among other data that could be added later) .. with CNX-D, you can't add any embedded tag info at all .. and ViewNX-idiots edition only adds tag info via it's proprietary sidecar file system only.
And as others have mentioned, CNX-D is slow .. sorry make that verrrrry slowwww!.
Prior to my update to Win10, on Win7 I could only get CNX-D to actually run every 10 or so attempts to make it so via the click of it's exe icon.
All 9 other attempts would cause a crash of some cryptic beginnings .. appdata crash with no meaningful info. Then when it did run, it was slow.
Now at least it does run, but not that I want it too, as it's even slower now on Win10(I feel).
I've tried very hard to like LR(v4 at the moment) but still have a (philosophical) issue with the way it's workflow begins.
I have my own system for tagging cataloging, and don't need LR's obstructive input.
Otherwise I'd take the time to use LR more and more, I've tried a few others too, C1, which was nicer to start with, but not 100% enamoured with the total output quality. I reckon I may learn to massage that tho with time.
So I've decided it's easier to just not update the camera to a newer model ... until I finally decide which software I'll end up migrating too(if I ever do).
It's easier this way .. less time wasted with a chore I don't particularly like much anyhow(PPing).
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Arthur, the Photo Mechanic app has a very good IPTC capability. And it writes to the NEF not to a sidecar. I've used Photo Mechanic for years for ingesting, naming, and culling photo files. After those chores I use PhoMech to view "contact sheets" and to call my converter/editors.
You may not want/need such a namer/viewer app, but I did want to let you know about its IPTC feature.
******
The non-CNX2 workflow for me from now on will have to feature two apps: Converter followed by Local Editor.
Currently, for my Nikon D810 fotos, this would be Photo Ninja as converter followed by CNX2 as local editor. But now I use CNX2 on the D810 TIFF (or any other TIFFs) produced by the Photo Ninja conversion. (And I'm testing other D810 workflow.)
I've also made a preliminary foray into Affinity to use as a one-stop converter/editor app. Or maybe as just the local editor for any converter output. Affinity is certainly well-stocked with tools and layers.
Affinity is way too complex for my needs after using the simple CNX2 for so many years, but I am trying to persevere because I think it is important not to get "stuck" knowing just one or two convert/edit systems.
Unfortunately CNX2 is going to fail to function at some point in the future when I have to upgrade from my current OS and find CNX2 no longer supported. Before anyone writes in to suggest virtual machines, Yes, I know I can do this if it becomes that important to preserve CNX2. "-)
I wish Nikon would just make the CNX2 source code into some kind of open source project and let us out here in HackerLand (white hat of course) have a go at preserving it for future Nikon cameras.
Added Later: I am not entirely certain that I will entirely refuse to use the horrible CNX-D because it does preserve all Nikon in-camera settings. And if I had to totally give up preservation of those Nikon D810 in-camera settings, then why bother to use Nikon cameras at all?? I'm not crazy about my results so far for the D810 from Photo Ninja and from Affinity. Methinks that if D810 workflow becomes a huge Pxxx in the Ahyy, then there are lots of intriguing other cameras out there to try!!!
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Arthur, the Photo Mechanic app has a very good IPTC capability. And it writes to the NEF not to a sidecar. ...
Thanks Andrea.
I must have tried just about every other program but this one then! :p
I know I could cobble up some script or whatever and use Exiftool or something like that, but there's nothing like a GUI for lazy folks like me :D
FWIW too tho, because of the fact that CNX and VNX are about to become totally redundant, I've been trialing many software for various reasons(some personal).
I also used to use IDImager for many years but that software went south!
But for the past few months I've been using the most innocuous software to help with cataloging .. and that is Microsoft's Photo Gallery.
Made me laugh when I realised that it could also set tag info into a raw file in the same way that Nikon's software does. It also has some unique searching abilities too.
It's very slow to start, and I'm assuming that this is something to do with it's database loading, as it feels like it's getting slower and slower over time. But once it's loaded up it's fine in terms of operational speed. The only caveat is that Nikon's NEF codec needs to be installed for it to work on NEF files.
I'll have a look at PM too tho.
The only beneficial aspect of CNX-D (now) is that Nikon have finally allowed it to read all our old CNX-2 edits made onto raw files. So like VNX-2, you can see the edits made via CNX-2 .. but you can also create a child file into either a jpg or tiff file type if needed(VNX-2 never had the ability to do a conversion!)
So the situation is (now) that unless you feel there is a need to re edit any files edited in CNX2, CNX-2 isn't required any longer to view or convert any CNX-2 edited raw files.
CNX-D can now do that.
I think it's the only reason I actually keep it on my PC, and can't really remember using it for any serious editing purposes(only because it's so slow and tedious to work with).
I prefer it's array of editing tools over VNX2 any day of the week tho.
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VNX-2 never had the ability to do a conversion
Minor correction. Yeah, VNX2 *can* convert to Jpg or Tif. Just so you know in case you ever have to use VNX2 for that. ;D
Look for this Menu Item: File > Convert Files > { JPEG, TIFF(16 bit), TIFF(8 bit) }
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VNX-2 never had the ability to do a conversion
Minor correction. Yeah, VNX2 *can* convert to Jpg or Tif. Just so you know in case you ever have to use VNX2 for that. ;D
Look for this Menu Item: File > Convert Files > { JPEG, TIFF(16 bit), TIFF(8 bit) }
Ah.. misinterpreted!
ViewNX2 can't convert a raw file, if it's been edited by CNX-2.
If you follow that conversion routine in VNX2 on a CNX2 edited file, the 'conversion' option is greyed out.
CNX-D (now) can. It initially couldn't either, but with one of the later versions, Nikon added this ability. Conversions are almost perfectly identical to a conversion made in CNX-2 itself.
But if you have any healing/bandaid editing created in CNX2's raw file, it's not perfectly translated by CNX-D. It's good enough, but not pixel for pixel identical for some reason.
One of the things I'm retentive about is uneccessary file archival, and once my jpgs or tiffs are used for the purpose they were created for, I usually remove them. My only concern is the survival of the NEF file.
My main browser for NEF files would invariably default to VNX2, sometimes FastStone's viewer, and sometimes Windows Explorer(with the NEF codec installed). But more often than not, VNX2.
So I'd browse through my files and possibly want/need a new copy of an old file edited with CNX2.
All I may have wanted was a new jpg file or something simple, but converting that file wasn't possible because it was edited by CNX2.
I was always curious as to why Nikon would limit their software like that!
So while it wasn't painful to open in CNX2 and covert from there .. it'd have been much simpler just to allow VNX2 to do the conversion! . ie. it was already open, so no need to open more software for a simple conversion.
Strangely, this is how(and why) I stumbled onto to IJFR(instant jpg from raw). It allows you to right click a raw file and extract a jpg out of it .. even an NEF file edited in CNX2!
The only issue was that this rightclick option wasn't enabled in VNX2 .. hence the eventual use of Windows Explorer directly .. and hence the eventual use of Photo Gallery for tagging NEF files.
Oh!.... and did you know that Windows Explorer can also tag files too(in the same ways Nikon do)!!
So if you have the Nikon NEF codec installed and use Windows Explorer to view your NEF files, you can go into properties of a file, and move through the various fields of the properties dialogue box and edit some/many .. tags included. Then you can search images metadata directly from within Windows Explorer. I do that a lot now as I've now started on a path to tag all my images.
** Probably all useless info for you Andrea, as I think I remember you're a Mac person .. but it's just some info there for other Windows users.
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I wish Nikon would just make the CNX2 source code into some kind of open source project and let us out here in HackerLand (white hat of course) have a go at preserving it for future Nikon cameras.
I wonder if that would be possible, considering that CNX was developed with NIK, contains a lot of NIK IP and NIK is now part of Google. I'd like to try Affinity, but it too is Mac only.
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ViewNX2 can't convert a raw file, if it's been edited by CNX-2.
ah yes, I had forgotten that. Agree it was stupid of Nikon.
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I wonder if that would be possible, considering that CNX was developed with NIK, contains a lot of NIK IP and NIK is now part of Google. I'd like to try Affinity, but it too is Mac only.
I used NX-2 quite a bit, but now with my D810 went to NX-D. Yes, it is not great for batch processing, but I prefer its RAW conversion much better than any other software. It reads all of my custom IN camera settings. I do not spend much time in it, levels and curves, exposure with highlights saving mostly. Then I "save as" a 16-bit Tiff and take it into Photoshop where I have my Nik/Google collection plug ins. Nikon had to drop the Control Points technology because of Nik being bought out by Google. So I just use that technology through Photoshop.
Here is the link to the Google/Nik Collection https://www.google.com/nikcollection/
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New version of CNX-D and ViewNX-i are just out. They do cooperate better now and ViewNX-i has gotten editing capabilities similar to ViewNX2 sharing sidecar files. Watch out though as installing ViewNX-i deinstalled ViewNX2 last time I tried, and it will only write edits to sidecar files, so it would not work together with CNX2 the way ViewNX2 works. I have been able to reinstall ViewNX2 in that VM now, and ViewNX-i will still start, but I do not know if there could be any undiscovered ill effects.
When is Nikon going to fix that cutoff star rating filter box with Win7 when font scaling on high resolution screens is more than 100%? :( I already reported it during the beta period...
I had some problems with display of some older files, one or two showed a black thumbnail after edit. For a few others, little response was seen to edits, but when I reopened them after shutting down the VM in between, they displayed with wild colors. Don't know about speed, as I was working in a VM; it was not particularly fast there.
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I tried both of them (CNX-D and ViewNX-I) and really could not like either one for a multitude of reasons. Some have been expressed here very well by multiple members. I wanted to like it but it is almost a step back from the first Capture or Capture NX albeit with a few more supported cameras :) and other nuances etc. etc... The UI is really a mess, I have not seen shortcuts like that and it is just a bizarre layout (e.g. (O)pen (S)ave). The menu items seem to just mush together I am sure I could become more familiar with the icons overtime thus speeding up the workflow. And while there may be a few gems there are simply too many hurdles for myself to overcome and venture into further use. .. Then there is that voice in my head - when Nikon loses this contract or the company gets bought out like the last one... I fear I will be in the same boat. Looking for yet another raw processor/Image editor.
It does seem that this cycle of Nikon and their software keeps spinning and while they have mixed it up (made by nikon and 3rd parties) they seem to miss the mark more often than not. For my uses NX/NX2 really worked well for me and while I still use it, I am reminded constantly that may days are numbered which leads often leads me to go on download sprees to test trials of other products. The list continues to grow... I really hope that the current iteration of Nikon software matures (soon), but the real question is what will it mature into and will it be something I can use?
And another question. Do you think Nikon was better off developing their own software or do you think they are better off leaving it to others? I know at one time many people held the opinion that Nikon needed to give up the software end of it, I may have as well at times. Has your opinion on this (if you had one) changed?
Best regards,
Tom
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ThomasAdams: Currently I am very happy with RAW-development in PhotoNinja and editing in PhotoshopCC with the Plugins PTLens and Google Nik Collection
PhotoNinja offers a very good calibrated RAW-Conversion and with these great TIFFs I can enter Photoshop, geometry correct for lens errors in PTLens and then I have the whole powerful palette I hat in NX2 ("Viveza") and the filter collection.
It is tough a bit slow for large number professional jobs
Going back to CaptureNX2 is no option for me, because I bring Fuji and Nikon Files back from every event and with PhotoNinja I can now treat both in the same workflow.
Frank
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Frank,
It sounds like you have figured out a workflow that suits you well. Perhaps it may be time to pony up and get PS (I have a version but it is really old!). I then could at least use the Nik plugins in something a touch faster when needed. I had read other posts concerning PhotoNinja, perhaps I should give it a try as I haven't tested i t out (at least not that I can recall ;)). Do you keep the .tif's or discard them after obtaining the image you want?
Best regards,
Tom
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Tom, it is not necessary to create a tiff when moving an image from Photo Ninja to PS. You can set PN up as a filter in PS, so that the image flows seamlessly from PN to Ps.
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I tried both of them (CNX-D and ViewNX-I) and really could not like either one for a multitude of reasons. .....
The menu items seem to just mush together I am sure I could become more familiar with the icons overtime thus speeding up the workflow.
I never found the UI confusing enough to discount the software(Ps takes the cake here! :p)
Within a few minutes I find all I need to do and use effectively.
I really want to like NX-D, but am having a hard time doing so. VNX2 should have evolved into this software. I like the colour processing tools in NX-D and the simple sharpening tools, etc... where VNX2 was just a bit too basic in the tools it had. My major issue with NX-D is that it's so slow and buggy, and considering the shift from Nikon to using sidecar files to make the workflow process quicker, it's backfired massively on my PC .. VNX2 is near instantaneous on my PC(except on files now located on a NAS tho). All locally stored files(SATA and USB3 drives) are instantaneously edited in VNX2.
.... And while there may be a few gems there are simply too many hurdles for myself to overcome and venture into further use....
Like I said, VNX2 was just a touch too basic with it's tools, and I never liked the way it never cooperated properly with CNX2.
But I like that NX-D has the (basic) LCH, levels/curves, lens correction tools that VNX2 should have had years ago. And of course the sharpening and NR tools too.. all of which VNX2 didn't have, or were grossly inadequate.
But then Nikon in their wisdom, decide that adding or editing keyword/tagged/ITPC data was no longer necessary, even tho they try to pitch this software as their professional editing solution!
.. Then there is that voice in my head - when Nikon loses this contract or the company gets bought out like the last one... I fear I will be in the same boat. Looking for yet another raw processor/Image editor.
This scenario couldn't come quicker I reckon! :D
I've been looking for another software solution for ages .. basically ever since Nikon announced cessation of support for CNX2 and VNX2 and that VNX-i and CNX-D are now their prime software products.
If they announce some miracle new software to properly replace CNX2, hopefully I can stop trialing software that I know I won't fully get along with.
It does seem that this cycle of Nikon and their software keeps spinning and while they have mixed it up (made by nikon and 3rd parties) they seem to miss the mark more often than not. For my uses NX/NX2 really worked well for me and while I still use it, I am reminded constantly that may days are numbered which leads often leads me to go on download sprees to test trials of other products. The list continues to grow... I really hope that the current iteration of Nikon software matures (soon), but the real question is what will it mature into and will it be something I can use?
Your uses with the older NXes mirrors mine. I'm not a pro, but sometimes I had to deal with batchloads of images I wanted to process in bulk .. and both VNX and CNX were perfectly adequate for my usage.
I have no plans to update my cameras(mainly D800E, and occasionally D300) simply due to a complete lack of support for new cameras in the old software(which is what I still use).
I won't install VNX-i again, as Øivind says .. it uninstalls VNX2, which I rely on massively heavily! I need it for it's ability to tag my images with keywords, which are stored within the NEF file(which is where I want that metadata).
And another question. Do you think Nikon was better off developing their own software or do you think they are better off leaving it to others? I know at one time many people held the opinion that Nikon needed to give up the software end of it, I may have as well at times. Has your opinion on this (if you had one) changed? ...
Whether Nikon develop their own software or contract that process out isn't important! What's important is that whatever choice they make on software, it has to be an overall best option for us the customer.
That is, if they have no real commitment to an excellent software workflow process, then get out of it completely(not this half arsed, crapful SilkyPix rubbish) .. and give the people that actually do know about software all the necessary information required to fully and properly decode the NEF file type!
Otherwise do it properly themselves, that is themselves directly by employing software specialists .. or contract it out to one of the millions of software developers out there that are more than capable of doing it right!
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I use CNX2. I tried CNXD but couldn't figure out how to do one edit multiple times. For example, multiple high pass sharpening at 1 pixel instead of once with more pixels. I also like to apply an initial contrast curve then add a second or third for further enhancing. If it is possible, I never found it.
Additionally, I shoot primarily IR. I like to drag a WB marquee around the entire image. I didn't see how to do that either.
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Both a High Pass Tool and Edit Steps are missing from this NX-D wretched piece of software. So there is no way to perform a High Pass Overlay for sharpening, much less perform two in a row for a subtle sharpening effect in NX-D.
NX-D only permits additional tweaks to in-camera settings along with a bit of global curve/levels work. But there is absolutely no way you can produce a finished foto in NX-D like we could so easily in NX2.
It may be that my D810 is the last Nikon I ever buy because what is the point of having all those lovely in-camera settings if they cannot be easily preserved and edited upon as we could do in CNX2 which was so fast and easy to use? If I have to crank out a TIFF and move back to "PS and layering" to deal with my Nikon files, then my work is slowed down and photos begin to get that "cooked" PS look (...my personal opinion only, please do not take offence, I probably just do not use PS well...) instead of the natural look I could get with CNX2. Foo !!
I really hate myself for clinging to this rapidly going-out-of-date CNX2. I have really really tried to learn and like other editing software. The learning is easy enough but the liking is lagging. And I just don't feel like I'm getting what I want except for perhaps Photo Ninja. PN does create a very good TIFF but PN sorely needs some local edit capability and much better batching before it can be considered a "pro" app.
OK rantlet over. I'm sure we former CNX2 lovers will all figure out something. ;D
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Andrea
I use PN for raw conversion and PS for polishing. You can set PN as a filter in PS, so the workflow is similar to ACR into PS without the need to create a tiff. It works really well.
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Andrea
I use PN for raw conversion and PS for polishing. You can set PN as a filter in PS, so the workflow is similar to ACR into PS without the need to create a tiff. It works really well.
Can you use all the PN features like this?
Edit: Anthony, I tried it. I put the effort in and voila it really works!!!
Thank you so much, you've enlightened me!!! No TIFFs any longer and no Camera RAW any longer. Open your NEF in PhotoNinja, when done with one click of a button it opens up in Photoshop. (then you are free to create a TIFF if you feel like it, but only if you feel like it)
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Both a High Pass Tool and Edit Steps are missing from this NX-D wretched piece of software. So there is no way to perform a High Pass Overlay for sharpening, much less perform two in a row for a subtle sharpening effect in NX-D.
NX-D only permits additional tweaks to in-camera settings along with a bit of global curve/levels work. But there is absolutely no way you can produce a finished foto in NX-D like we could so easily in NX2.
It may be that my D810 is the last Nikon I ever buy because what is the point of having all those lovely in-camera settings if they cannot be easily preserved and edited upon as we could do in CNX2 which was so fast and easy to use? If I have to crank out a TIFF and move back to "PS and layering" to deal with my Nikon files, then my work is slowed down and photos begin to get that "cooked" PS look (...my personal opinion only, please do not take offence, I probably just do not use PS well...) instead of the natural look I could get with CNX2. Foo !!
I really hate myself for clinging to this rapidly going-out-of-date CNX2. I have really really tried to learn and like other editing software. The learning is easy enough but the liking is lagging. And I just don't feel like I'm getting what I want except for perhaps Photo Ninja. PN does create a very good TIFF but PN sorely needs some local edit capability and much better batching before it can be considered a "pro" app.
OK rantlet over. I'm sure we former CNX2 lovers will all figure out something. ;D
I am in the same boat. And I might have written it before, but the ability to continue editing in CNX2 was a deciding factor with my last camera body purchase, a D7100; othewise I would have likely gone for D7200, or tried to wait even a little bit longer... . The very occasional dark shadow banding if I really mess up exposure, and low buffer will have less impact on my performance and comfort in work flow than if I had to go to the non-Adobe alternatives (not liking the Adobe alternatives). On Windows it seems to be little worry that we have to resort to using it in a VM in the foreseeable future, as it is listed to be compatible with Win10.
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Can you use all the PN features like this?
Edit: Anthony, I tried it. I put the effort in and voila it really works!!!
Thank you so much, you've enlightened me!!! No TIFFs any longer and no Camera RAW any longer. Open your NEF in PhotoNinja, when done with one click of a button it opens up in Photoshop. (then you are free to create a TIFF if you feel like it, but only if you feel like it)
Glad to be of help.
For those who use Photo Mechanic, set the PM preferences so that the preferred program for editing is Photoshop. This will cause PN to open as a Photoshop filter, then proceed as normal. (This assumes you have set PN and PS up as recommended by Picturecode).
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Soooooo....
with the D500 everything changed. The 1.4/24G is my favourite lens again. Was on the D3 not so much on the D600.
AND ... Capture NX-D is back in the Front Seat!!!
I simply cannot achieve a decent conversion with PN.
Even ACR which I hate is better. Currently I use PN for D600 and X100T.
I really started a love affair with NX-D. It simply creates superb output of D500 RAWs.
Now I start to understand the interface also.
It gets better every day!
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There's something else, I think. The latest version of NX-D seems me to be quite a bit better than the older ones - faster and more stable, even on slower computers. Nikon seems to have put some real effort into the software, I think. And as someone who didn't use any other RAW converter for any length of time over the past few years, I find UI to be pretty logical and straightforward as well.
Hermann