NikonGear'23

Gear Talk => Lens Talk => Topic started by: Dr Klaus Schmitt on August 24, 2015, 08:15:55

Title: How to modularily mount a projection lens
Post by: Dr Klaus Schmitt on August 24, 2015, 08:15:55
How to mount a projection lens, front adapter can be changed, as well as rear (can be basically any camera).

Works from infinity (depending on lens back focal length) to very closeup. Setscrews allow to calibrate the infinity position.

Lens --> Lens Adapter to M65 --> M65 to M42 Helicoid --> M42 to Camera mount Adapter

(http://forum.mflenses.com/userpix/20153/455_IMG_4423_c_1.jpg) (http://forum.mflenses.com/userpix/20153/big_455_IMG_4423_c_1.jpg)

(http://forum.mflenses.com/userpix/20153/455_IMG_4424_c_1.jpg) (http://forum.mflenses.com/userpix/20153/big_455_IMG_4424_c_1.jpg)

(http://forum.mflenses.com/userpix/20153/455_IMG_4425_c_1.jpg) (http://forum.mflenses.com/userpix/20153/big_455_IMG_4425_c_1.jpg)

It is not a slim elegant and lightweight solution, but the benefits are:

1) no lens modification needed
2) very durable
3) non rotating front
4) accepts a variety of lens types and lens diameters
5) allows a variety of camera mounts
6) needs only about 15mm net optical length (plus camera register) for lens diameter 62.5mm or smaller
7) safes money and time for not having to go to the gym, as it is quite heavy :-)

The design is basically made to accept 35mm film russian projection lenses with a standard 62.5mm diameter.
Smaller ones (52.5mm etc.) are possible using a different front plate, also some larger ones, but infinity focus
may often not be reached using the latter, as such lenses cannot dive into the helicoid.

The M65 helicoid is made in China and may be found on ebay.

Those two adapter rings (front and back) are made by rafcamera.com based on my design.
The front one has three hex nut setscrews which hold the lens in place and allows to adjust infinity focus (only if the lens has enough back focal length)
Rafcamera offers several camera adapter plates for the rear one incl. Nikon-F.
Orders may be done directly through their site or through amazon.com
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Dphoto&field-keywords=rafcamera+M65&rh=i%3Aphoto%2Ck%3Arafcamera+M65 (http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Dphoto&field-keywords=rafcamera+M65&rh=i%3Aphoto%2Ck%3Arafcamera+M65)
(I have no connections with them except that I'm a happy customer...)

[my name is on the rings was a curtesy of rafcamera and is a non standard feature]
Title: Re: How to modularily mount a projection lens
Post by: Erik Lund on August 24, 2015, 08:48:59
Thanks for the references! Much appreciated ;)

Edit to add:

Thanks for sharing your Idea!
Title: Re: How to modularily mount a projection lens
Post by: Dr Klaus Schmitt on August 24, 2015, 09:42:15
Thanks for the references! Much appreciated ;)

OK, so if only the references have value, but not my original idea, I guess I'm in the wrong place.
Title: Re: How to modularily mount a projection lens
Post by: Bjørn Rørslett on August 24, 2015, 09:56:41
We need to see what a finished project looks like as well, you know.
Title: Re: How to modularily mount a projection lens
Post by: Erik Lund on August 24, 2015, 10:14:37
Thanks for the references! Much appreciated ;)

OK, so if only the references have value, but not my original idea, I guess I'm in the wrong place.
??? I'm sorry that you completely misunderstand my reply, It was not my intent not to praise you for you idea!
Title: Re: How to modularily mount a projection lens
Post by: frankv on August 24, 2015, 10:59:44
As always, I'm amazed of the ability the members if this community has to hack solutions to use any optic to any job :-)
Maybe my winter project will be to dig out any (not so) obscure lens I have in storage, and connect it to my camera to explore if they have any caracter. I have a few enlarger lenses (porbably of the cheap kind) from my B/W-film days. And an odd M39 of dubious eastern origin have been seen on the shelves if I remember correctly. :D

Many thanks for the inspiration!

-frank-
Title: Re: How to modularily mount a projection lens
Post by: Jakov Minić on August 24, 2015, 13:37:51
Dr Klaus, thanks for the detailed description!
Now it's up to Dr Lens to create one for me  :D
Title: Re: How to modularily mount a projection lens
Post by: Dr Klaus Schmitt on August 24, 2015, 14:24:24
We need to see what a finished project looks like as well, you know.

Finished product? That IS a finished product and it works very well for me with a variety of lenses and cameras....

Title: Re: How to modularily mount a projection lens
Post by: Jakov Minić on August 24, 2015, 14:26:40
I think Bjørn meant a photo as the finished product?
Title: Re: How to modularily mount a projection lens
Post by: Dr Klaus Schmitt on August 24, 2015, 14:35:12
I think Bjørn meant a photo as the finished product?

Images shot with

MEOPTA 1.3/70mm https://www.flickr.com/photos/kds315/albums/72157648073130494 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/kds315/albums/72157648073130494)

and quite a few more...

Title: Re: How to modularily mount a projection lens
Post by: Frank Fremerey on August 24, 2015, 14:48:54
Klaus: Can I take the lens from my Zeiss Ikon Perkeo AV slide projector and turn it into a DSLR lens?

Very exciting idea.
Title: Re: How to modularily mount a projection lens
Post by: Jakov Minić on August 24, 2015, 14:59:29
Thank you for the links!
I browsed through them and I noticed that the characteristics are similar to the Heligon 100/1.6 that I already have thanks to Dr Lens :)
Title: Re: How to modularily mount a projection lens
Post by: Dr Klaus Schmitt on August 05, 2017, 20:13:01
Klaus: Can I take the lens from my Zeiss Ikon Perkeo AV slide projector and turn it into a DSLR lens?

Very exciting idea.

yes, guess you get the idea behind all this ;-)


Title: Re: How to modularily mount a projection lens
Post by: Dr Klaus Schmitt on August 05, 2017, 20:14:38
I have some news, based on some pre-production samples I just tested:
I have discussed with Rafcamera to add a filter mount into their M65x1 camera adapter, to accept 40.5mm standard filter mount, so as to allow ND (or other filters) to be mounted inside. As I noticed due to the speed of thoses projection lenses, ISO could not be lowered enough to avoid over-exposure.

Soon available in quantities (so far) for Nikon, Sony-E and mft (micro 4/3)
Title: Re: How to modularily mount a projection lens
Post by: Bjørn Rørslett on August 05, 2017, 22:17:51
Very interesting news, Klaus.
Title: Re: How to modularily mount a projection lens
Post by: Akira on August 05, 2017, 22:23:22
I have some news, based on some pre-production samples I just tested:
I have discussed with Rafcamera to add a filter mount into their M65x1 camera adapter, to accept 40.5mm standard filter mount, so as to allow ND (or other filters) to be mounted inside. As I noticed due to the speed of thoses projection lenses, ISO could not be lowered enough to avoid over-exposure.

Soon available in quantities (so far) for Nikon, Sony-E and mft (micro 4/3)

Wow, I would want such a function for DSLR lens to m4/3 body adapters, too!
Title: Re: How to modularily mount a projection lens
Post by: Dr Klaus Schmitt on August 06, 2017, 02:33:50
Wow, I would want such a function for DSLR lens to m4/3 body adapters, too!

This could be done by modifying such adapter, the M42 or Nikon one is relatively long and could be done,
using a technique which Nikon and others (Leitz, Kilfitt, Astro,...) have already developed

(http://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/300mm-f28/images/filter-holder-KEN_3967.jpg)
(c) Kenrockwell.com

Here was an announcement about such a solution:
http://www.43rumors.com/new-deo-tech-drop-in-filter-adapter-coming-soon/ (http://www.43rumors.com/new-deo-tech-drop-in-filter-adapter-coming-soon/)
and here is the product for sale:
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1190855-REG/deo_tech_deoowlng2fe1_owl_nikon_g_lens.html (https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1190855-REG/deo_tech_deoowlng2fe1_owl_nikon_g_lens.html)

(https://static.bhphoto.com/images/images500x500/1473356161000_1190855.jpg)
(c) Deo Tech

Here is their product video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XL4JuXaCsc4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XL4JuXaCsc4)
Title: Re: How to modularily mount a projection lens
Post by: Erik Lund on September 01, 2017, 11:31:21
Interesting product! Thanks for sharing links ;)
Title: Re: How to modularily mount a projection lens
Post by: Dr Klaus Schmitt on September 01, 2017, 14:42:32
Interesting product! Thanks for sharing links ;)

I bought it and it is on my way to me, will report about it, once I had the chance to test ;-)
Title: Re: How to modularily mount a projection lens
Post by: Akira on September 01, 2017, 17:23:51
Klaus, thank you very much for the link!  I ordered Nikon G to MFT adapter that was exactly what I wanted!

Upon its arrival, I will assess its quality to see if it is worth buying a special filter for my purpose.  :)
Title: Re: How to modularily mount a projection lens
Post by: Dr Klaus Schmitt on September 02, 2017, 20:58:37
Klaus, thank you very much for the link!  I ordered Nikon G to MFT adapter that was exactly what I wanted!

Upon its arrival, I will assess its quality to see if it is worth buying a special filter for my purpose.  :)

Excellent, do let us know Akira!!
Title: Re: How to modularily mount a projection lens
Post by: Akira on September 03, 2017, 03:28:46
Excellent, do let us know Akira!!

Most definitely!  Apparently it can take about a month to be in stock, shipped and delivered, so I'm looking forward to your initial review!
Title: Re: How to modularily mount a projection lens
Post by: Dr Klaus Schmitt on September 11, 2017, 21:28:46
Most definitely!  Apparently it can take about a month to be in stock, shipped and delivered, so I'm looking forward to your initial review!

On my return from Sweden, the filter slide in adapter has arrived. Looks very well made, will test it tomorrow, weather permitting
Title: Re: How to modularily mount a projection lens
Post by: Akira on September 11, 2017, 23:50:10
On my return from Sweden, the filter slide in adapter has arrived. Looks very well made, will test it tomorrow, weather permitting

Great!  Please check out the infinity focus with the "usual" Nikkor lens as well.
Title: Re: How to modularily mount a projection lens
Post by: Dr Klaus Schmitt on September 28, 2017, 22:41:04
This could be done by modifying such adapter, the M42 or Nikon one is relatively long and could be done,
using a technique which Nikon and others (Leitz, Kilfitt, Astro,...) have already developed

(http://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/300mm-f28/images/filter-holder-KEN_3967.jpg)
(c) Kenrockwell.com

Here was an announcement about such a solution:
http://www.43rumors.com/new-deo-tech-drop-in-filter-adapter-coming-soon/ (http://www.43rumors.com/new-deo-tech-drop-in-filter-adapter-coming-soon/)
and here is the product for sale:
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1190855-REG/deo_tech_deoowlng2fe1_owl_nikon_g_lens.html (https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1190855-REG/deo_tech_deoowlng2fe1_owl_nikon_g_lens.html)

(https://static.bhphoto.com/images/images500x500/1473356161000_1190855.jpg)
(c) Deo Tech

Here is their product video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XL4JuXaCsc4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XL4JuXaCsc4)

Unpacked it, did some quick indoor mechanical test. Looks well made, nothing blocking, all working. Filter slider
sits a bit lose, hold by two ball bearings, but won't fall off.
Title: Re: How to modularily mount a projection lens
Post by: Akira on September 29, 2017, 00:55:24
Unpacked it, did some quick indoor mechanical test. Looks well made, nothing blocking, all working. Filter slider
sits a bit lose, hold by two ball bearings, but won't fall off.

Sounds promising.  Did you buy the Nikon F to m4/3 adapter?  I haven't yet received any info on the stock or the shipment from B&H.
Title: Re: How to modularily mount a projection lens
Post by: JCDowdy on September 29, 2017, 01:21:22
I have been following the development of the Owl filter adapter for some time. 

I have refrained from ordering one pending some independent reviews so I am eager to hear how it performs!
Title: Re: How to modularily mount a projection lens
Post by: Dr Klaus Schmitt on September 29, 2017, 18:57:20
Sounds promising.  Did you buy the Nikon F to m4/3 adapter?  I haven't yet received any info on the stock or the shipment from B&H.

Yes, the Nikon version I have (for my UV-Nikkor 105mm)
Title: Re: How to modularily mount a projection lens
Post by: Dr Klaus Schmitt on September 29, 2017, 18:59:29
I have been following the development of the Owl filter adapter for some time. 

I have refrained from ordering one pending some independent reviews so I am eager to hear how it performs!

The problem is to have 52mm filters with low frame height, the only downside it has (so far). If it is really light tight, I have to test (and I do have some doubts, as many normal adapters, even the most expensive ones, do leak...). Unfortunately not that much time currently availbale for such.

Step adapters cannot be mounted, it has to be a low height 52mm filter frame! (So a Baader-U filter for instance needs to be remounted)
Title: Re: How to modularily mount a projection lens
Post by: Akira on September 29, 2017, 19:43:48
Thanks, Klaus, for the details of the adapter.  Hope the filter I intend to use is of a thin-frame type.
Title: Re: How to modularily mount a projection lens
Post by: Dr Klaus Schmitt on September 30, 2017, 10:29:42
Thanks, Klaus, for the details of the adapter.  Hope the filter I intend to use is of a thin-frame type.

I have been told the max. thickness (w/o thread, just frame height) is 5mm (not too bad actually), max. outer filter diameter 54mm
Title: Re: How to modularily mount a projection lens
Post by: Akira on September 30, 2017, 12:15:30
I have been told the max. thickness (w/o thread, just frame height) is 5mm (not too bad actually), max. outer filter diameter 54mm

Thanks for the additional info.  5mm should be thick enough to accommodate virtually any filters, and I don't intend to any polarizing filters like PL or vari-ND.
Title: Re: How to modularily mount a projection lens
Post by: Dr Klaus Schmitt on September 30, 2017, 14:22:41
Thanks for the additional info.  5mm should be thick enough to accommodate virtually any filters, and I don't intend to any polarizing filters like PL or vari-ND.

Just one CAVEAT: there has to be ALWAYS a filter inside as otherwise there will be significant focus shift, based on the old Astronomer's rule, Focus Shift = 1/3 Filter Thickness, so a 2mm thick filter will shift focus 0.6mm backward.

As I use filter (stacks) of different thicknesses, this is a major drawback. Using gel filters would solve that (as those are very thin and not made of glass), but not possible for my type of photography.

AF shooters will have the camera balance this out most likely, but for MF it is cumbersome, especially when using a color corrected quartz fluorite lens w/o focus shift.
Title: Re: How to modularily mount a projection lens
Post by: Akira on September 30, 2017, 19:23:31
I'm going to shoot very distant subjects.  So long as I can focus at infinity, that would not be a major problem, as I can adjust the focus ring to the closer distance.  Thank you for the note.

As the adapter disables the AF function, the user will have to focus manually anyway.
Title: Re: How to modularily mount a projection lens
Post by: Dr Klaus Schmitt on October 01, 2017, 14:17:13
I'm going to shoot very distant subjects.  So long as I can focus at infinity, that would not be a major problem, as I can adjust the focus ring to the closer distance.  Thank you for the note.

As the adapter disables the AF function, the user will have to focus manually anyway.

Actually you will be able to focus a bit beyond infinity, once the filter is installed!
I just wished the filter holder would sit a bit tighter...
Title: Re: How to modularily mount a projection lens
Post by: Frank Fremerey on October 14, 2017, 20:53:44
I see a lot of Pentacon 3.5/140mm projection lenses on Ebay chaply like no 222677170669 . Are these suited for your adaptation?

I like to try shooting shots like these: https://previews.123rf.com/images/yokokenchan/yokokenchan1608/yokokenchan160800195/61336876-smoke-tree-Pentacon-lens-Bubble-bokeh-Stock-Photo.jpg
Title: Re: How to modularily mount a projection lens
Post by: Dr Klaus Schmitt on October 20, 2017, 01:13:37
I see a lot of Pentacon 3.5/140mm projection lenses on Ebay chaply like no 222677170669 . Are these suited for your adaptation?

I like to try shooting shots like these: https://previews.123rf.com/images/yokokenchan/yokokenchan1608/yokokenchan160800195/61336876-smoke-tree-Pentacon-lens-Bubble-bokeh-Stock-Photo.jpg

Sorry, but I don't know this specific lens, but as lomg as it is not thicker than 62.5mm, I don't see a problem!
Title: Re: How to modularily mount a projection lens
Post by: Snoogly on March 08, 2021, 01:34:29
How to mount a projection lens, front adapter can be changed, as well as rear (can be basically any camera).

Works from infinity (depending on lens back focal length) to very closeup. Setscrews allow to calibrate the infinity position.

Lens --> Lens Adapter to M65 --> M65 to M42 Helicoid --> M42 to Camera mount Adapter

(http://forum.mflenses.com/userpix/20153/455_IMG_4423_c_1.jpg) (http://forum.mflenses.com/userpix/20153/big_455_IMG_4423_c_1.jpg)

(http://forum.mflenses.com/userpix/20153/455_IMG_4424_c_1.jpg) (http://forum.mflenses.com/userpix/20153/big_455_IMG_4424_c_1.jpg)

(http://forum.mflenses.com/userpix/20153/455_IMG_4425_c_1.jpg) (http://forum.mflenses.com/userpix/20153/big_455_IMG_4425_c_1.jpg)

It is not a slim elegant and lightweight solution, but the benefits are:

1) no lens modification needed
2) very durable
3) non rotating front
4) accepts a variety of lens types and lens diameters
5) allows a variety of camera mounts
6) needs only about 15mm net optical length (plus camera register) for lens diameter 62.5mm or smaller
7) safes money and time for not having to go to the gym, as it is quite heavy :-)

The design is basically made to accept 35mm film russian projection lenses with a standard 62.5mm diameter.
Smaller ones (52.5mm etc.) are possible using a different front plate, also some larger ones, but infinity focus
may often not be reached using the latter, as such lenses cannot dive into the helicoid.

The M65 helicoid is made in China and may be found on ebay.

Those two adapter rings (front and back) are made by rafcamera.com based on my design.
The front one has three hex nut setscrews which hold the lens in place and allows to adjust infinity focus (only if the lens has enough back focal length)
Rafcamera offers several camera adapter plates for the rear one incl. Nikon-F.
Orders may be done directly through their site or through amazon.com
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Dphoto&field-keywords=rafcamera+M65&rh=i%3Aphoto%2Ck%3Arafcamera+M65 (http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Dphoto&field-keywords=rafcamera+M65&rh=i%3Aphoto%2Ck%3Arafcamera+M65)
(I have no connections with them except that I'm a happy customer...)

[my name is on the rings was a curtesy of rafcamera and is a non standard feature]

Sorry to revive such an old thread!!!

I can't seem to find the M42 to Nikon F adapter on the rafcamera site. Will any M42 to Nikon F (without a lens inside) adapter work at the rear end of this wonderful contraption?
Title: Re: How to modularily mount a projection lens
Post by: Akira on March 08, 2021, 01:47:51
Sorry to revive such an old thread!!!

I can't seem to find the M42 to Nikon F adapter on the rafcamera site. Will any M42 to Nikon F (without a lens inside) adapter work at the rear end of this wonderful contraption?

If you live in Japan (or even in Tokyo), you may want to check out BORG accessories.  This cameramount:

https://www.tomytec.co.jp/borg/products/partsDetail/summary/180

combined with this 49.8mm to M42P1 adapter:

https://www.tomytec.co.jp/borg/products/helicoidDetail/summary/47

will make a neat M42 to Nikon F adapter which may be a bit pricey but will serve as a handy and expandable system.
Title: Re: How to modularily mount a projection lens
Post by: Akira on March 08, 2021, 01:50:55
Here is how the adapters mentioned above look (three rings on the right).  The mounts are for m4/3 and Sony E, but BORG offers many other mounts including Nikon F.
Title: Re: How to modularily mount a projection lens
Post by: Snoogly on March 08, 2021, 02:27:28
Great. I will become absorbed into the BORG ...

Both rings are available from Yodobashi, so already ordered!

Many thanks for the info.
Title: Re: How to modularily mount a projection lens
Post by: Akira on March 08, 2021, 03:25:23
Great. I will become absorbed into the BORG ...

Both rings are available from Yodobashi, so already ordered!

Many thanks for the info.

Glad to be of any help.  If you need to examine BORG parts at a retailer, I would recommend Kyoei shop near Akihabara.  This shop specializes in astronomical telescopes and keeps more BORG parts in stock than Yodobashi does:

http://www.kyoei-tokyo.jp/
Title: Re: How to modularily mount a projection lens
Post by: Dr Klaus Schmitt on March 09, 2021, 22:16:38
Well any parts will work as long as you follow the principle idea. Rafcamera also offers these,
as it basically has been turned into a "product" by him, which many now use as the hype for
using fast projection lenses is still on..

Mine still is this, but many helicoids are on the market now...

(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-X1yLb_l26AE/VeWiVvfCFSI/AAAAAAAAApI/4yv86jFkMFk/s1600/455_IMG_4423_c_1.jpg)