Author Topic: Nikkor K 50mm f/1.4, opinions  (Read 3700 times)

Peter Forsell

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Re: Nikkor K 50mm f/1.4, opinions
« Reply #15 on: August 06, 2018, 15:19:59 »
OK, i found a difference! the K2 has more screws at the bayonet compared to the Ai  :o :o :o

damn, this thread made me want to buy a junk Ai to make my repair notes complete!

Richard, while watching ebay pictures it looks like the rear element size has been reducing generation by generation from the early Nikkor-S versions,

Does the S.C. and K1 still have a larger one compared to K2 and AI?

I am just curious, I don't imply that the size of an element has any bearing to the rendering of a lens. It might give a clue of "silent" changes in optical formulas though.

richardHaw

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Re: Nikkor K 50mm f/1.4, opinions
« Reply #16 on: August 06, 2018, 15:27:19 »
Richard, while watching ebay pictures it looks like the rear element size has been reducing generation by generation from the early Nikkor-S versions,

Does the S.C. and K1 still have a larger one compared to K2 and AI?

I am just curious, I don't imply that the size of an element has any bearing to the rendering of a lens. It might give a clue of "silent" changes in optical formulas though.

Yes, the SC still have the large rear element  :o :o :o

i may appear smaller due to the baffles being bigger but I am not sure as I don't have my lenses in front of me now. they're all in the dry cabinet and baby needs to sleep  ::)

Akira

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Re: Nikkor K 50mm f/1.4, opinions
« Reply #17 on: August 06, 2018, 15:39:33 »
here are the 2 versions  :o :o :o

like what i mentioned, the K1 is not well-known and even some collectors don't even know they exist  ::)

the left one is K2 and the right one is K1 ::)

K2 looks almost identical to Ai. I can't see any difference to be honest. Maybe Roland can help us?

Thank you!  The pattern of the rubber ring on the focus ring is finer on K2 than on Ai.
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richardHaw

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Re: Nikkor K 50mm f/1.4, opinions
« Reply #18 on: August 06, 2018, 17:01:53 »
Thank you!  The pattern of the rubber ring on the focus ring is finer on K2 than on Ai.
yes, that too. but that is minor  :o :o :o

also there are 2 screws on the aperture ring on the late model and also a dot instead of dash in the scale.  ::)

I am now looking for an Ai-S to overhaul for my article. my sample is near mint so it's stupid to open it just for the blog

Roland Vink

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Re: Nikkor K 50mm f/1.4, opinions
« Reply #19 on: August 06, 2018, 23:50:30 »
Everything has been more or less covered already, but it doesn't hurt to bring all the points together:

The older "New Nikkor" K 50/1.4 (K1) has optics which are based on the older Nikkor-S and Nikkor-S.C. The optics are not identical, the spacing and possibly the curvature and glass materials were slightly changed, probably to improve performance at close range as the K1 can focus to 0.45m compared to 0.6m for the older models. Pictures here: http://www.destoutz.ch/lens_50mm_f1.4_2797729.html (actually Richard de Stoutz states this version focuses to 2 feet/0.6m so I need to check that...)

In January 1976 the K1 version was replaced by an all-new design (K2) which is much more compact before, reflecting the trend at the time towards smaller lenses. It focuses to 0.45m/1.5 feet. It is one of the first lenses to have the DOF scale on the chrome ring, a design feature which would become common during the AI and AIS series. Pictures here: http://www.destoutz.ch/lens_50mm_f1.4_3777777.html

It was upgraded to AI in 1977 with no other changes ... they did change the rubber grip slightly, the AI rubber is less finely knurled and seems a dull grey instead of glossy black. Like the K2 version it has 5 screws in the lens mount, is engraved LENS MADE IN JAPAN in white, and has a black dash for the focus/aperture index. Serial numbers start with 3940001. We then have a number of minor changes...

At no 3980001 we get a slight change, the prong at the back which protects the rear lens protector is shorter, which means it can fit the TC-16 teleconverter. I had a feeling the overall length of the lens stayed the same which means the front grew in length, and I wonder if that reflects a minor change to the optics?

Between roughly 4046xxx and 4052xxx, the original dash index line gets replaced by a black dot, which is easier to read.

Around 4092xxx - 4095xxx, the engraving LENS MADE IN JAPAN in white is replaced by MADE IN JAPAN with no color.

Around 4125xxx - 4127xxx the number of screws in the mount reduces from 5 to 3. This and the above change occurred in many AI Nikkors, probably to reduce cost or production.

Between 4264xxx - 4269xxx the aperture ring now has two small screws on the side, so the design of the aperture linkage changed.

Production then continued more or less unchanged to the end of production at no 485xxxx.

The AI 50/1.4 was upgraded to AI-S in 1981, AF in 1986, AF (new) in 1991 and AF-D in 1995. As far as I know the optics did not change although I can't discount the possibility the optics were refined slightly along the way. All versions have NIC coating although they did change a little over the years, and the later AF-D lenses have the newer SIC coating.




Akira

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Re: Nikkor K 50mm f/1.4, opinions
« Reply #20 on: August 07, 2018, 01:12:03 »
Roland, thank you for the summary.  Just to nitpick, the coating of all the current Ais is also SIC (as well as some discontinued Ais lenses).
"The eye is blind if the mind is absent." - Confucius

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richardHaw

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Re: Nikkor K 50mm f/1.4, opinions
« Reply #21 on: August 07, 2018, 01:24:07 »
Thank you! very informative  :o :o :o

Roland Vink

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Re: Nikkor K 50mm f/1.4, opinions
« Reply #22 on: August 07, 2018, 02:37:26 »
Akira, thanks, you are correct of course. All AI-S and AF-D lenses made since about 2000 (maybe earlier) have NIC coatings :)

ArthurDent

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Re: Nikkor K 50mm f/1.4, opinions
« Reply #23 on: August 07, 2018, 04:49:20 »
Roland- Do you know the approximate sn when the coating on the AFD lens changed?

Roland Vink

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Re: Nikkor K 50mm f/1.4, opinions
« Reply #24 on: August 07, 2018, 07:44:40 »
Not really. On some lenses the difference between NIC and SIC coating is obvious, but not with the 50/1.4. Since a lot of my data came from pictures from ebay listings, it is hard to see the coating colour and at what point they changed. Also, I'm not entirely sure when SIC first appeared and if it was introduced across the range at the same time or at different times for each lens. I'm fairly sure it was around year 2000, maybe a year or two earlier.

I would guess the AF-D 50/1.4 series starting at 4500001 are probably SIC coating, maybe early ones still have NIC. Note that the older coating was already pretty good, SIC is really a refinement, I don't think it makes a big difference in most shooting conditions.

richardHaw

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Re: Nikkor K 50mm f/1.4, opinions
« Reply #25 on: August 07, 2018, 08:22:02 »
I'm not entirely sure when SIC first appeared and if it was introduced across the range at the same time or at different times for each lens.
I can help confirm this when I have the chance  :o :o :o

Peter Forsell

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Re: Nikkor K 50mm f/1.4, opinions
« Reply #26 on: August 07, 2018, 08:54:18 »
The older "New Nikkor" K 50/1.4 (K1) has optics which are based on the older Nikkor-S and Nikkor-S.C. The optics are not identical, the spacing and possibly the curvature and glass materials were slightly changed, probably to improve performance at close range as the K1 can focus to 0.45m compared to 0.6m for the older models. Pictures here: http://www.destoutz.ch/lens_50mm_f1.4_2797729.html (actually Richard de Stoutz states this version focuses to 2 feet/0.6m so I need to check that...)

I think 0.45 meters is correct. These are from a different lens (no AI conversion) that I am eyeballing, but the focusing scale is visible here.






Roland Vink

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Re: Nikkor K 50mm f/1.4, opinions
« Reply #27 on: August 07, 2018, 09:02:50 »
Thanks, I will contact Richard de Stoutz, I think he would like to correct his site.

Wannabebetter

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Re: Nikkor K 50mm f/1.4, opinions
« Reply #28 on: August 08, 2018, 02:10:08 »
I cannot add anything substantive to this discussion, only my highly subjective view (pardon the pun) that I loved my 50mm f1.4 K-lens on my Nikomat Ft-2 almost to the point of an unhealthy obsession. I've harbored something of a K-lens fetish for decades, wasting too much bandwidth and time perusing "Nikkor porn" on eBay listings. Thankfully, abject poverty saved me from wasting hard-earned treasure and risking the loss of friendships and respect, in pursuit of these lenses.

Now, as for bellows lenses and APO... I'm calling my doctor as soon as I sign-off here.

Bent Hjarbo

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Re: Nikkor K 50mm f/1.4, opinions
« Reply #29 on: August 08, 2018, 13:38:17 »
I have an Ais with donít make any sharp images a f1.4.
At f2 it is on par with my old 50 H.C f2.
Any idea what is wrong, and can it be repaired?