NikonGear'23
Gear Talk => Lens Talk => Topic started by: Peter Forsell on August 05, 2018, 19:10:31
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First hand accounts re Nikkor K 50/1.4 (older version) vs the later brethren... 50/1.4K new, AI, AI-S ...?
A very nice condition ai'd version is for sale, but how is the lens, would AI or ai-s be a better choice?
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Don’t know about those. I have the 50 mm f/1.4 AFD. I think the acuity is pretty good when stopped down a couple of stops, but the color saturation is weak. It may just be that I have a bad sample.
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All the 50 Nikkors are good and a few are excellent. The latest AiS version is among the latter.
The lens age influences colour rendition and image contrast, obviously. The more "rounded" rendition of the older lenses sometimes is a benefit, other times a drawback.
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Depends on whether you prefer or dislike the shorter focus throw of the later models.
My girlfriend uses the K version and I can only say that it is a very nice lens to use, wide open or stopped down.
It is very different, optically, from modern lenses, but that does not mean it's a bad lens. It is, in my opinion, a good and perfectly sharp lens, even when used wide open.
Below is an example of a photo I made using a Nikon D800
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/854/28915341267_47347b9384_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/L49FyF)DSC_1603-Edit (https://flic.kr/p/L49FyF) by b j (https://www.flickr.com/photos/132836932@N03/), on Flickr
If you are looking for a manual focus 50 f1,4, and find agood deal on this one, and the longer focus throw does not put you off, I can hoghly recommend buying it
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i have plenty of sample images to publish this weekend.
K1 is the same as the Nikkor-S.
K2 is totally different and is closest to the one used in Ai-S up to AF-D
what's killing this lens is chromatic aberration at close distances but it does have its use for portraiture as you will see in my repair article :o :o :o
it is a nice lens but i hated the AF-D for the reasons above but then I had different priorities then and so were my clients. they won't understand "beautiful rendering" and "natural looking" portraits.
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This is the actual lens I'm eyeballing. Looks like a K1 with a factory AI kit, right? The price is well under €200. Looking forward to your samples, Richard.
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/930/42069152530_8414644a54_o.jpg)
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1831/42069152550_6f49344ba1_o.jpg)
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1831/42069152570_fd5bcd1b54_o.jpg)
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Thank you everybody so far. I am still at crossroads.
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Hello, Peter. That's just the Nikkor-S in a repackaged barrel and better coatings :o :o :o
any reviews of the Nikkor-S.C should give you the same results. ::)
https://richardhaw.com/2016/01/23/project-nikkor-s-50mm-f1-4/
when I was repairing the K1, I can't help but think that I was repairing the Nikkor-S. It's basically the same inside (apart from the lens barrel).
many people including some collectors aren't aware that this lens even existed ::) I won't say who tho..
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from the K2, which is a totally different optic design :o :o :o
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K1 is the same as the Nikkor-S.
K2 is totally different and is closest to the one used in Ai-S up to AF-D
what's killing this lens is chromatic aberration at close distances but it does have its use for portraiture as you will see in my repair article :o :o :o
it is a nice lens but i hated the AF-D for the reasons above but then I had different priorities then and so were my clients. they won't understand "beautiful rendering" and "natural looking" portraits.
Rick, you mean K1 has less CA than K2 and later models?
With K2, do you mean Ai Nikkor?
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Rick, you mean K1 has less CA than K2 and later models?
With K2, do you mean Ai Nikkor?
K2 should have less, i think! but I am NOT sure.
to be honest, i think the K1 has less CA but the K2 has better output overall specially sharpness and resolution but I will have to do a test again. remember, i am working with junk lenses all the time! :o :o :o
K1 is new-Nikkor but with Nikkor-S optics.
K2 is new-Nikkor with same optics as Ai to Ai-S version and i even suspect up to AF-D because they share the same character in rendering. I used the AF-D for a long time and I am very familiar about how it performs, very similar to the K2 in most respects
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here are the 2 versions :o :o :o
like what i mentioned, the K1 is not well-known and even some collectors don't even know they exist ::)
the left one is K2 and the right one is K1 ::)
K2 looks almost identical to Ai. I can't see any difference to be honest. Maybe Roland can help us?
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Best spec and serial # overview is as always provided by Ronald,,,
http://www.photosynthesis.co.nz/nikon/serialno.html#50fast
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here's another view. :o :o :o
yes, I used Roland's site for this ::) it got confusing at one time
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OK, i found a difference! the K2 has more screws at the bayonet compared to the Ai :o :o :o
damn, this thread made me want to buy a junk Ai to make my repair notes complete!
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OK, i found a difference! the K2 has more screws at the bayonet compared to the Ai :o :o :o
damn, this thread made me want to buy a junk Ai to make my repair notes complete!
Richard, while watching ebay pictures it looks like the rear element size has been reducing generation by generation from the early Nikkor-S versions,
Does the S.C. and K1 still have a larger one compared to K2 and AI?
I am just curious, I don't imply that the size of an element has any bearing to the rendering of a lens. It might give a clue of "silent" changes in optical formulas though.
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Richard, while watching ebay pictures it looks like the rear element size has been reducing generation by generation from the early Nikkor-S versions,
Does the S.C. and K1 still have a larger one compared to K2 and AI?
I am just curious, I don't imply that the size of an element has any bearing to the rendering of a lens. It might give a clue of "silent" changes in optical formulas though.
Yes, the SC still have the large rear element :o :o :o
i may appear smaller due to the baffles being bigger but I am not sure as I don't have my lenses in front of me now. they're all in the dry cabinet and baby needs to sleep ::)
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here are the 2 versions :o :o :o
like what i mentioned, the K1 is not well-known and even some collectors don't even know they exist ::)
the left one is K2 and the right one is K1 ::)
K2 looks almost identical to Ai. I can't see any difference to be honest. Maybe Roland can help us?
Thank you! The pattern of the rubber ring on the focus ring is finer on K2 than on Ai.
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Thank you! The pattern of the rubber ring on the focus ring is finer on K2 than on Ai.
yes, that too. but that is minor :o :o :o
also there are 2 screws on the aperture ring on the late model and also a dot instead of dash in the scale. ::)
I am now looking for an Ai-S to overhaul for my article. my sample is near mint so it's stupid to open it just for the blog
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Everything has been more or less covered already, but it doesn't hurt to bring all the points together:
The older "New Nikkor" K 50/1.4 (K1) has optics which are based on the older Nikkor-S and Nikkor-S.C. The optics are not identical, the spacing and possibly the curvature and glass materials were slightly changed, probably to improve performance at close range as the K1 can focus to 0.45m compared to 0.6m for the older models. Pictures here: http://www.destoutz.ch/lens_50mm_f1.4_2797729.html (actually Richard de Stoutz states this version focuses to 2 feet/0.6m so I need to check that...)
In January 1976 the K1 version was replaced by an all-new design (K2) which is much more compact before, reflecting the trend at the time towards smaller lenses. It focuses to 0.45m/1.5 feet. It is one of the first lenses to have the DOF scale on the chrome ring, a design feature which would become common during the AI and AIS series. Pictures here: http://www.destoutz.ch/lens_50mm_f1.4_3777777.html
It was upgraded to AI in 1977 with no other changes ... they did change the rubber grip slightly, the AI rubber is less finely knurled and seems a dull grey instead of glossy black. Like the K2 version it has 5 screws in the lens mount, is engraved LENS MADE IN JAPAN in white, and has a black dash for the focus/aperture index. Serial numbers start with 3940001. We then have a number of minor changes...
At no 3980001 we get a slight change, the prong at the back which protects the rear lens protector is shorter, which means it can fit the TC-16 teleconverter. I had a feeling the overall length of the lens stayed the same which means the front grew in length, and I wonder if that reflects a minor change to the optics?
Between roughly 4046xxx and 4052xxx, the original dash index line gets replaced by a black dot, which is easier to read.
Around 4092xxx - 4095xxx, the engraving LENS MADE IN JAPAN in white is replaced by MADE IN JAPAN with no color.
Around 4125xxx - 4127xxx the number of screws in the mount reduces from 5 to 3. This and the above change occurred in many AI Nikkors, probably to reduce cost or production.
Between 4264xxx - 4269xxx the aperture ring now has two small screws on the side, so the design of the aperture linkage changed.
Production then continued more or less unchanged to the end of production at no 485xxxx.
The AI 50/1.4 was upgraded to AI-S in 1981, AF in 1986, AF (new) in 1991 and AF-D in 1995. As far as I know the optics did not change although I can't discount the possibility the optics were refined slightly along the way. All versions have NIC coating although they did change a little over the years, and the later AF-D lenses have the newer SIC coating.
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Roland, thank you for the summary. Just to nitpick, the coating of all the current Ais is also SIC (as well as some discontinued Ais lenses).
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Thank you! very informative :o :o :o
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Akira, thanks, you are correct of course. All AI-S and AF-D lenses made since about 2000 (maybe earlier) have NIC coatings :)
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Roland- Do you know the approximate sn when the coating on the AFD lens changed?
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Not really. On some lenses the difference between NIC and SIC coating is obvious, but not with the 50/1.4. Since a lot of my data came from pictures from ebay listings, it is hard to see the coating colour and at what point they changed. Also, I'm not entirely sure when SIC first appeared and if it was introduced across the range at the same time or at different times for each lens. I'm fairly sure it was around year 2000, maybe a year or two earlier.
I would guess the AF-D 50/1.4 series starting at 4500001 are probably SIC coating, maybe early ones still have NIC. Note that the older coating was already pretty good, SIC is really a refinement, I don't think it makes a big difference in most shooting conditions.
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I'm not entirely sure when SIC first appeared and if it was introduced across the range at the same time or at different times for each lens.
I can help confirm this when I have the chance :o :o :o
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The older "New Nikkor" K 50/1.4 (K1) has optics which are based on the older Nikkor-S and Nikkor-S.C. The optics are not identical, the spacing and possibly the curvature and glass materials were slightly changed, probably to improve performance at close range as the K1 can focus to 0.45m compared to 0.6m for the older models. Pictures here: http://www.destoutz.ch/lens_50mm_f1.4_2797729.html (actually Richard de Stoutz states this version focuses to 2 feet/0.6m so I need to check that...)
I think 0.45 meters is correct. These are from a different lens (no AI conversion) that I am eyeballing, but the focusing scale is visible here.
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1839/42995328175_a5c4dae45a_o.jpg)
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/859/42995328055_0b93861d9d_o.jpg)
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Thanks, I will contact Richard de Stoutz, I think he would like to correct his site.
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I cannot add anything substantive to this discussion, only my highly subjective view (pardon the pun) that I loved my 50mm f1.4 K-lens on my Nikomat Ft-2 almost to the point of an unhealthy obsession. I've harbored something of a K-lens fetish for decades, wasting too much bandwidth and time perusing "Nikkor porn" on eBay listings. Thankfully, abject poverty saved me from wasting hard-earned treasure and risking the loss of friendships and respect, in pursuit of these lenses.
Now, as for bellows lenses and APO... I'm calling my doctor as soon as I sign-off here.
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I have an Ais with don’t make any sharp images a f1.4.
At f2 it is on par with my old 50 H.C f2.
Any idea what is wrong, and can it be repaired?
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I have an Ais with don’t make any sharp images a f1.4.
At f2 it is on par with my old 50 H.C f2.
Any idea what is wrong, and can it be repaired?
it's sharp wide open when the subject is a bit further about more than 2m away. i always thought its bad until i realized that this lens was calculated for that kind of distances :o :o :o the strength of this lens is the resolution from f/2 and up. it's sharp enough to render individual strands of hair at the corners of the frame
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both shot at f/1.4, one is minimum focusing distance while the other is about 2-3m away. :o :o :o
the flower was cropped at the center almost 1:1
the wig was shot at the far edge of the frame cropped almost to 1:1
the lens can be reasonably sharp at f/1.4 if you know when and how to use it. i wish i knew what i know now because i shot with the AF-D for many years.
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couple: f/1.4, chromatic aberration is corrected pretty well when the subject is further from the frame.
telephone: f/1.4, chromatic aberration is making the lens not look sharp.
one more thing you can do is stop it down by a very small amount and that should get rid of the chromatic aberration, most of it that is.
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at f/2.
we did a test shooting girls almost a decade ago with the 50/1.4 vs the 50/1.8
the 50/1.4 wins easily at f/1.8 vs the 50/1.8 at f/1.8, the one thing we noticed is the resolution and micro contrast. :o :o :o
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I did some very boring tests today with my sample og the Ais 50f1.4.
It is just a chair, focus is at the place in both images.
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A few samples from my Nikkor K 50/1.4.
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/849/43930518851_47832511ae_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/29VZoJP)20180808-_P3F6295b (https://flic.kr/p/29VZoJP) by foppa2011 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/62383894@N02/), on Flickr
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1816/43882260902_464e371ce0_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/29RJ4kd)20180808-_P3F6289b (https://flic.kr/p/29RJ4kd) by foppa2011 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/62383894@N02/), on Flickr
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1833/28993617077_5195db9317_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Lb4SeB)20180808-_P3F6287b (https://flic.kr/p/Lb4SeB) by foppa2011 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/62383894@N02/), on Flickr
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1774/28993617357_23b2cde2b9_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Lb4Sjr)20180808-_P3F6283b (https://flic.kr/p/Lb4Sjr) by foppa2011 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/62383894@N02/), on Flickr
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/931/43930519541_2cb608544a_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/29VZoWH)20180808-_P3F6281b (https://flic.kr/p/29VZoWH) by foppa2011 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/62383894@N02/), on Flickr
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/855/43930519611_cc075fde6c_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/29VZoXV)20180808-_P3F6278b (https://flic.kr/p/29VZoXV) by foppa2011 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/62383894@N02/), on Flickr
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/859/28993618057_734ca10b22_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Lb4Swv)20180808-_P3F6273b (https://flic.kr/p/Lb4Swv) by foppa2011 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/62383894@N02/), on Flickr
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that indeed looks like how the Nikkor-S renders :o :o :o
https://richardhaw.com/2016/01/23/project-nikkor-s-50mm-f1-4/
you can see a hint of the glow in the girls skin, very characteristic of nikons faster lenses in the old days like the 55/1.2 ::)
i have a picture of my daughter that i took last week from about 1m and it's sharp at f/1.4 i will share a crop later tonight if i have time tonight.
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I did some very boring tests today with my sample og the Ais 50f1.4.
It is just a chair, focus is at the place in both images.
yes, thats pretty much how it should look like :o :o :o
you can confirm it with my samples after i publish the article some time this weekend or next week.
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Cinestill 800T
both from the K2. preparing a repair and review of the K1 because of this thread :o :o :o
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Nice work Richard.
I have a question. The strange patterned blooming and artefacts on her legs... is it just motion blur, even at 1/2000? Or interplay of some other things?
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1834/43978002531_136438f447_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2a1bKYX)20180811-_P3F6368b (https://flic.kr/p/2a1bKYX) by foppa2011 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/62383894@N02/), on Flickr
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The strange patterned blooming and artefacts on her legs... is it just motion blur, even at 1/2000? Or interplay of some other things?
Hello. i believe thats aberration :o :o :o
I took the K1 out for shooting some samples for the coming article and I can confirm that the K2 works better than the K1 at least in my samples. ::)
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http://richardhaw.com/2018/08/12/repair-new-nikkor-50mm-f-1-4/
here it is now :o :o :o
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I have a question. The strange patterned blooming and artefacts on her legs... is it just motion blur, even at 1/2000? Or interplay of some other things?
Looks like some kind of data artifact rather than an optical one...
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Cinestill 800T
both from the K2. preparing a repair and review of the K1 because of this thread :o :o :o
Looks like PF flare. :o :o :o
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As a much younger version of me, learning photography by books, the 50mm standard drove me to the point of hating them. (I. have close to a half dozen 50's scattered around the house.)
Thank You. This thread is quite informative. My best 50mm seems to be the K1 Version, reddish hue coating, which I Ai'd myself. It took a long time to figure out, but my copy's aperture stop down lever was/had been too wide.
Set wide open at F1.4, the camera would slam the lens' stop down lever, jar the lens & invoke (what would normally be called "Mirror Slap.") I had to lock the mirror up & shoot at a high shutter speed & did quite a bit of head scratching. (I carefully filed the lens' lever outdoors with a lot of puffs from my dust off can.)
Anyone else noticed this?
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As a much younger version of me, learning photography by books, the 50mm standard drove me to the point of hating them. (I. have close to a half dozen 50's scattered around the house.)
Thank You. This thread is quite informative. My best 50mm seems to be the K1 Version, reddish hue coating, which I Ai'd myself. It took a long time to figure out, but my copy's aperture stop down lever was/had been too wide.
Set wide open at F1.4, the camera would slam the lens' stop down lever, jar the lens & invoke (what would normally be called "Mirror Slap.") I had to lock the mirror up & shoot at a high shutter speed & did quite a bit of head scratching. (I carefully filed the lens' lever outdoors with a lot of puffs from my dust off can.)
Anyone else noticed this?
Interesting. Mine is filed too. The lenses in the pic are from left to right, back row first: AI 50/1.2, K1 50/1.4, AIS 28/2 and front row: AI 50/1.8 and AI 55/1.2.
Only the K1 has the filed aperture lever.
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1837/42210594820_13a7ed9913_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/27j1kfd)20180813-_P3F6378b (https://flic.kr/p/27j1kfd) by foppa2011 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/62383894@N02/), on Flickr
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I can confirm that both the K2 and K1 will jitter a bit when actuated,much more so for the K1 i think :o :o :o
My K1 jammed my Df's stop-down lever and I had to bend it back to shape ::)
maybe I should file mine, too ::)
by the way, the iris is adjustable on this lens so maybe that's whats causing this. somebody may have worked on our lenses and set the iris too big and so the stop down lever sits too low or too high
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Does filing the point indicated in the picture affect exposure?
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Does filing the point indicated in the picture affect exposure?
depends on the lens. it will on this one but you can counter it with another adjuster inside ::)
by the way i just realized that mine was also filed :o :o :o
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Richard, thank you. Is there a picture or reference I could study? It is something I have been curious about for a while
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Richard, thank you. Is there a picture or reference I could study? It is something I have been curious about for a while
in my blog richardhaw.com :o :o :o
some irises can be regulated by adjusting the collar inside which I dont recommend unless you can measure f stops.
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Isn't it wonderful that some cameras still come with a DOF preview button?
(While I'm at it..... Please, Nikon, "Make a shutter button with threads, so you can sell me another $20. simple cable release.")
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Isn't it wonderful that some cameras still come with a DOF preview button?
Personally I thought that the DOF preview button on F3 and later Nikon bodies made no sense, because their finder screens has been designed for the brightness and not for the accurate DOF.
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I owned a 50/1.4 Ai and a 50/1.8 Ai at the same time. I was not satisfied with the 50/1.4 at f/1.4 and found the 50/1.8 sharper at f/2.0 than the 50/1.4. If the lens will not be used at f/1.4 frequently I would get the 50/1.8 Ai instead. If a short throw is desired then the 50/1.8 Ais (early) might be the right choice. Most will prefer the long throw for a dSLR myself included. The AF 50/1.8 is a possibility. The current AF-S 50/1.8G is another.
I satisfied with the general rendition of my 50/1.8 Ai and 50/1.2 Ais. These are among my sharpest lenses. Sharpness isn't everything and all of the 50mm Nikkors from the 50/1.4 Nikkor-S.C and foreword should please all but the most dedicated sharpness freak at f/2.8-5.6. I'd choose based on various rendition attributes.
I wish I had time to run off my various 50mm lenses which include: 50/1.4 Nikkor-S (Ai), 50/1.8 Ai, 50/1.2 Ais (SIC) and AF-S 50/1.8G. It's difficult to focus manually with my D800 the AF-S 50/1.8G gets the most use.
I'm posting on a phone so I hope there aren't too many typos and such. I don't have Internet at home anymore and most of the advice above is more useful than mine. My final advice is buy as many 50mm lenses from every era and select your lens by the whim of the moment.
Dave Hartman
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For some reason, Mr. Rorslett did not review the 50/1.4 AI(S) in his legacy site : http://www.naturfotograf.com/index2.html (http://www.naturfotograf.com/index2.html).
However he reviewed the 50/1.4 SC.
I have seen some reviews stating that the 50/1.4 was sharper than the 50/1.8 at f/2.0, i.e. coming to opposite conclusions. However, from experience, it is darn difficult to come to any conclusion when comparing decent lenses. The slightest misfocus, or uncorrected focus shift, will lead to different stories.
It is striking to see how strong opinions (starting with my own) may be, where careful tests will rather raise doubts.
Ultimately, I can only support your last piece of advice (own several and choose by the whim of the moment).
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The first Nikon F3 came with a DP-2 prism and non-Red Dot focus screens. The DP-2 offers me the best viewfinder experience of any Nikon from the Nikon F to Nikon D800 and I wear and shoot through glasses. The DP-2 has higher finder magnification than the DP-3 (HP) and the non-Red Dot screen optics are identical to the F/F2 screen opics so I recomend DP-2 and non-Red Dot screens for fast lenses. If the eye point isn't high enough for one who wears glasses then I'll recommend the DP-3 prism.
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I have seen some reviews stating that the 50/1.4 was sharper than the 50/1.8 at f/2.0 [...]
It might depend on which 50/1.8 is being compared. The "long nose" 50/1.8 AI and AIS is different optically from the "pancake" series-E/AIS versions.
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could be that, or (for instance) the distance. The Noct for instance is not impressive at close range...
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Personally I thought that the DOF preview button on F3 and later Nikon bodies made no sense, because their finder screens has been designed for the brightness and not for the accurate DOF.
While it is possible that the DOF preview experience of the F3 and later cameras declined in comparison to the earlier cameras, all of them, from the F forwards, were extremely dark and grainy when trying to see at f/11 or f/16, which made the DOF preview, in effect, a novelty feature. The best one could do was to look through the dark, hotspotted graininess and make an educated guess about what would be in acceptable focus.
Digital fixed that, mainly due to the rear viewing screen and the ability to zoom in during playback
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could be that, or (for instance) the distance. The Noct for instance is not impressive at close range...
That does not correlate with my findings, It does however have strong field curvature up close, so a little tricky,,,
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That does not correlate with my findings, It does however have strong field curvature up close, so a little tricky,,,
it can be difficult to focus on subjects closer than 6m. it can fool the rangefinder of the camera :o :o :o
what I do is test and i found that focusing from infinity to your subject until just after the dot highlights worked for my NOCT on both the Df and D750.
this is also true for my other 1.2 lenses.
focusing from minimum to you subject and shooting just after the dot lights up doesn't yield good results. I am not sure what causes this but it's repeatable at least on my lenses and cameras. maybe somebody here knows?
this may differ from lens to lens. ::)
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Maybe it has sth to do with the position of your ground glass.
I observe the same with my Df : focus is best when near the point where the -> arrow would light up. Maybe that is bad calibration, but on the other hand it is much more informative than perfect focus in the middle of the "green dot" area, which is too wide for my taste and lenses.
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Maybe it has sth to do with the position of your ground glass.
I observe the same with my Df : focus is best when near the point where the -> arrow would light up. Maybe that is bad calibration, but on the other hand it is much more informative than perfect focus in the middle of the "green dot" area, which is too wide for my taste and lenses.
"too wide" is the best term. :o :o :o
I am not sure about the ground glass. i suppose the AF module of the df et al is under the mirror? ::)
I can ask mr Goto next time I meet him.
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AF Module is under the mirrorbox, so reflected via a sub mirror behind the mirror. all of this can be out of calibration giving all sorts of mistakes also alignment of mount etc.
Using green dot as focusing is not something i rely on to judge how sharp a lens is, maybe we are talking about different things :o :o :o
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AF Module is under the mirrorbox, so reflected via a sub mirror behind the mirror. all of this can be out of calibration giving all sorts of mistakes also alignment of mount etc.
Using green dot as focusing is not something i rely on to judge how sharp a lens is, maybe we are talking about different things :o :o :o
no. same thing. i was thinking that my NOCT wasn't sharp but it was just tricky to focus it properly when relying on the dot. so it's sharp but just a bit off focused :o :o :o
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f/1.4
f/2
f/4
f/5.6
the compression made it looked :'( :'( :'(
trust me, they look better on my monitor :o :o :o
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f/1.4 @ infinity on a bright day with a shiny subject :o :o :o
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f/1.4 @ infinity on a bright day with a shiny subject :o :o :o
I love it. Maybe I'm nostalgic or just strange, but at the moment I cherish lenses with less than perfect rendering... I like the yesteryear feeling. I have plenty of lenses with high-contrast, neutral, sharp, low-distortion rendering, but at the moment I'm interested in something else. Perhaps in six months I'll pursue some other things.
Very nice images Richard.
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I may not have been clear about the optical performance of Nikon F/F2 viewing screens v. Nikon F3 non-Red Dot viewing screens: they are identical save for aluminum frame.
If any of these viewing screens gives a bright center and dark edge the screen is mismatched to the lens or has no Fresnel or the lens has strong vignetting or there is some other factor such as the lower eye point compared to the F3 HP and later. As one who wears glasses I find the finder image slightly shaded in the F/F2 but not in the F3 non-HP. One can find viewing screen charts for Nikon F through F5 and many others at Photography in Mylashia.
I believe the F3 Red Dot viewing screens are quite similar to the F4 viewing screen except the frames are not compatible between the F3 and F4.
Beat
Dave Hartman
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I love it. Maybe I'm nostalgic or just strange, but at the moment I cherish lenses with less than perfect rendering... I like the yesteryear feeling. I have plenty of lenses with high-contrast, neutral, sharp, low-distortion rendering, but at the moment I'm interested in something else. Perhaps in six months I'll pursue some other things.
Very nice images Richard.
for sure, its the vintage look that i am pursuing ::)
but not the super blooming sphero-chromatic aberrations :o :o :o i guess that was a bit too much. my sample is a lemon by the way so maybe you can do some tests and see if yours behave like this too
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I notice pale colored coating for Super IC lenses and flare and ghost if present is pale accordingly. The only lenses I have with IC and SIC coatings are a pair of 28/2.0 Ais Nikkor. These don't give up ghosts even with the sun in the frame and flare isn't an issue. I'd love to see a pair of 24/2.8(s), with IC and SIC compared.
I'd pay more for Super IC particularly for lenses prone to flare and ghost.
Dave Hartman
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I have a 50/1.4 Nikkor-S that is nicely sharp and seems a bit mellow on my D800 pointed away from the sun compared to my 50/1.8 Ai and 50/1.2 Ais with SIC (all at f/4.0-5.6). Am I fooling myself?
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I notice pale colored coating for Super IC lenses and flare and ghost if present is pale accordingly. The only lenses I have with IC and SIC coatings are a pair of 28/2.0 Ais Nikkor. These don't give up ghosts even with the sun in the frame and flare isn't an issue. I'd love to see a pair of 24/2.8(s), with IC and SIC compared.
I'd pay more for Super IC particularly for lenses prone to flare and ghost.
Dave Hartman
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I have a 50/1.4 Nikkor-S the is nicely sharp and seems a bit mellow on my D800 pointed away from the sun compared to my 50/1.8 Ai and 50/1.2 Ais with SIC. Am I fooling myself?
my https://richardhaw.com/2016/01/23/project-nikkor-s-50mm-f1-4/ article showed a few pictures of the Nikkor-S in various versions including the C, you will notice that the coatings really do work :o :o :o
https://richardhaw.com/2016/10/24/repair-zoom-nikkor-43-86mm-f3-5-23/
heres another for the 43-86, same conclusions
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https://richardhaw.com/2018/09/06/repair-new-nikkor-50mm-f-1-4-v1/
version 1 :o :o :o
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Set wide open at F1.4, the camera would slam the lens' stop down lever, jar the lens & invoke (what would normally be called "Mirror Slap.") I had to lock the mirror up & shoot at a high shutter speed & did quite a bit of head scratching. (I carefully filed the lens' lever outdoors with a lot of puffs from my dust off can.)
Anyone else noticed this?
Steve, thank you for mentioning this. I've been scouring the interwebs for information on the "mirror slap" I'm experiencing.
To answer your question, yes, I have noticed this.
I recently got a 50mm f1.4 K1 non-AI lens which I modified myself to work with AI. Now it mounts on my D700 FX DSLR, where I've set it as one of the non-CPU lenses. Metering is perfect, the camera recognizes where I've set the aperture ring and gives me perfect exposures every time.
But there's that wince-inducing shudder every time you take a photograph, and I'm worried about damaging my camera.
I would like to fix the issue - I take it that I have to file off a bit of the stop down lever? Any idea by how much, or how much should the final size be? I have two other lenses, both factory AI (28mm f2.8 and 105mm f2.5) that I can use to compare. Also have a micrometer/vernier to measure.
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Steve, thank you for mentioning this. I've been scouring the interwebs for information on the "mirror slap" I'm experiencing.
To answer your question, yes, I have noticed this.
I recently got a 50mm f1.4 K1 non-AI lens which I modified myself to work with AI. Now it mounts on my D700 FX DSLR, where I've set it as one of the non-CPU lenses. Metering is perfect, the camera recognizes where I've set the aperture ring and gives me perfect exposures every time.
But there's that wince-inducing shudder every time you take a photograph, and I'm worried about damaging my camera.
I would like to fix the issue - I take it that I have to file off a bit of the stop down lever? Any idea by how much, or how much should the final size be? I have two other lenses, both factory AI (28mm f2.8 and 105mm f2.5) that I can use to compare. Also have a micrometer/vernier to measure.
Technically, "mirror slap" is made of three parts:
- Mirror rising
- Aperture stop-down
- Shutter opening and closing
Unless the mirror actually strikes something on the rear of the lens as it rises and falls (which shouldn't happen with any Nikon lens except for some very old "mirror-up" fisheyes and the Nikkor-O 2.1cm) then mirror slap will be the same regardless of which lens is mounted. Similarly, the shutter opening and closing is independent of the lens used.
The aperture stop-down action is the only thing which could vary for each lens. Here it is useful to understand what happens. When the lens is mounted, the camera holds the lens aperture stop-down lever so the lens is wide open. When the picture is taken, the camera releases stop-down lever. The lens stop-down lever is spring-loaded and closes the aperture down. If the aperture ring was used, the lens stops down to the setting on the aperture ring. If the camera command dial is used, the camera only releases the stop-down lever a precise distance so the aperture closes to the required setting. After the exposure is taken, the camera slams the stop-down lever up again to re-open the lens.
The stop-down part of the process should be fairly gentle since the aperture is only closed down by a small spring inside the lens. Any jarring is more likely to be after the exposure when the camera re-opens the lens. Even this should be relatively smooth. Take the lens off the camera and compare with your other AI lenses. Set the lens to minimum aperture and flick the stop-down lever, the aperture blades should open and close freely. It's possible the stop-down lever was bent or moved out of alignment when it was AI modified, and is catching on the side of the slot. Could that be the problem? Maybe also try some test shots with very long exposure (1 sec or more) and notice if the shudder is occurring at the start or end of the exposure (or both). If the camera is exposing properly with the lens, then I don't think you need to file the stop-down lever.
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I have in the past experiences with lenses where one could feel a mechanical "kick" in the focus ring at release. This was caused by a maladjusted stop down lever. As I recall the culprit was that the lever hit the hard stop when the lens opened up again. On some lenses (for instance the 55 micros) this lever can be adjusted with two screws. Once the lever was correctly adjusted the "kicking" went away. For some other lenses the adjustment is as I recall in the position of the optical assembly.
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its pretty common for the Nikkor-S family for some reasons :o :o :o
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I know this post is on the old side now and has pretty much served its purpose but I have one more question regarding the Nikkor K 50mm 1.4 lens (version 1). I've found one listed for sale online but the seller does not know very much about it. He has it for sale with a 2X adapter and he says it is the only way he can get the lens to mount on his Nikon D7000. He bought the camera used and this lens and adapter came with the camera. From the posted pictures it looks like it has had the AI conversion completed. Unfortunately, the pictures are not the best. Could it just be the problem that was noted in this post about the mirror on some cameras hitting a post on the lens mount? I would be using the lens on a Nikon FM and FM2n. Any help would be greatly appreciated! Oh, and the seller has it listed for $100 Canadian. That's with the 2X adapter, which I don't want. Is that reasonable? Cheers! Robert
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The asking price is a trifle high, if you ask me ....Looks to be pretty beaten up too.
The lens needs further modification before you can fully exploit it on your cameras.
The TC is probably just junk.
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From the posted pictures it looks like it has had the AI conversion completed. Unfortunately, the pictures are not the best.
To reinforce or restate Birna's comment, it looks to me that this lens has not had any kind of Ai conversion. Because it needs an Ai adaption or conversion, the real, net cost to you is effectively higher than CDN$100 because you will have to supply the Ai conversion.
Plus: We don't know if it needs any other repairs. Is it easily returnable to the seller if it arrives in lousy condition?
Personally, I would look for the next optical version of the lens, either in K or early Ai configuration(preferred). I occasionally see them used from KEH at reasonable prices. I don't know if ordering from KEH is practical for those in Canada.
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If the "rabbit ears" are removed from the lens it might be possible to mount the lens so it does not conflict with the AI-ring on the camera. But I am not 100% sure....but in this case the camera has to be operated in full manuel mode of course. On my D5200 which has no AI-ring I just mount non-AI lenses and it is quite easy to use as first couple of shots are used as "exposure meter" by looking at the histogram to find the right aperture/exposure combination.
Non-AI Nikkors can now be used on all kinds of digital rangefinders with adapter rings.....
Maybe it is because of that non-AI nikkors seems to have gone a bit up in price?
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The lens shown has not been AI converted - that is why it would not mount directly to the D7000. Some pre-AI lenses will mount on AI cameras if the aperture ring is thin enough - the lower edge can slip under the AI follower if the rabbit ears are removed. That is not the case with this lens.
If you are keen to use this lens, send it to Marcel Van Engen (https://magnimopus.com/services/) I think his AI conversion method would be suitable for this lens, and it looks much neater than other AI conversions.
If you are using the lens with an FM, I believe the AI follower on the camera can be flipped up so the lens will fit, but metering will be difficult. Much better to have the lens AI converted, or get a proper AI lens instead (AI 50/1.8 is good)
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Birna, Pluton, Meper and Roland, thank you so much for your very informative replies. It is good to know that this lens has not had the AI conversion. Since the selling price of this lens is a bit high and the conversion cost will only add to that along with the fact that it looks to not be in the best condition, I've decided to pass on it. To my surprise, another 50mm f/1.4 Nikkor surfaced on a Canadian buy & sell site today. It's an actual AI lens from the first production batch in March 1977. It looks pretty clean. The owner is an elderly gentleman who just retired from the photography profession and is selling off a lot of his gear. He said it is clean and in great working order except that the focusing ring is a little stiff. He is asking $100 Canadian as well. I do have a Nikkor 50mm AI-S f/1.8 but thought it would be nice to have a 1.4. Thanks again! Any additional thoughts? Robert
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If you already have an AI-s 50/1.8 then I would say that you only need a 50/1.4 if you like to use it at 1.4. But of course it is always nice with a new lens and they all have their weaknesses and strengths. And a 50/1.4 looks good. I checked price at the local store. They have a near-mint AI-s version at 335 Euros. This is with warranty and 1 month where you can swap the lens to something else.
It is this one:
https://www.photografica.com/brugt-51/brugt-nikon-ai-s-50-1-4.html
An AI-s 50/1.2 in same like new condition is about double up in price and then the "noct" goes a bit higher but no at sale at the moment.
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https://richardhaw.com/2018/08/12/repair-new-nikkor-50mm-f-1-4/
:o :o :o
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These lenses looks simple from outside but quite complex when you try to disassemble.
The few times I have tried the infinity adjustment has been the most "tricky" and also the helicoid cleaning and lubricating (right lubrication and also right amount). Also to be able to assemble 100% dust free is not easy either.
All the Nikkor lenses with helicoid you have seen is helicoid always aluminium against aluminium or does aluminium against brass or brass against brass also exists?
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Richard, thanks for that link to your excellent page on that lens. It is exceptionally well written and shows how knowledgeable you are!
Meper, thanks for your replies as well. 335 Euros is $550 Canadian so $100 for this AI lens sounds good. The seller is an hour away from where I live but I think I will go his way and check it out in person to see how "stiff" the focus ring is.
I am wanting this lens to shoot at 1.4 as I find myself using my 50mm 1.8 wide open quite often. I like the shots my daughter gets with her 50mm 1.4 EF lens on her full-frame digital camera and I would like to get similar results on my FM2n. She can use my 1.8 on my old FM. It will be an improvement on the lens currently on it.
So... thanks again for your replies. You all have been exceptionally kind and helpful. I hope you are all handling self-isolation well. Robert
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A good way to check the glass of the lens if to use a small strong flash light and set the lens to full aperture and light through it from both sides and see if you can see any scratches etc....