Author Topic: Get the Point? Technical Lens Movements and Stacking  (Read 2645 times)

Michael Erlewine

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Get the Point? Technical Lens Movements and Stacking
« on: April 05, 2016, 23:48:18 »
The phrase “Get the Point” is the name of the photo. As I am still new to technical cameras or even doing too much with “Tilt,” etc. I do have some preliminary comments. As we might expect, by leveraging the “tilt” function, we take some stress off the stacking-software procedure. By grouping areas we want to emphasize and apply (in this case) mostly tilt, we can minimize the distance between the front and back of our image and by that reduce artifacts, actually quite effectively.

Here are two photos shot with the Nikon D810, the Nikon Bellows PB-4, oriented so that the tilt works up and down, rather than side to side. This rig sits on the Swiss-Arca Cube C1, which itself can be skewed in various ways.

I took Bjørn Rørslett’s suggestion to not use a large pano arm, but instead use an L-Bracket. In this case I am using the L-Bracket on my D800 (portrait mode) to support the PB-4 and lens, which it does without strain. If I want landscape mode, I use the Swiss-Arca rail already on the base of the PB-4. So, I am not adding any more “rails” to my setup, just switching between the one on the camera and the base of the PB-4. The only downside to this is that I have to re-orient by 90-degrees the Swiss-Arca clamp on my geared head. This is not a huge problem for the convenience.

Anyway, here are two shots, stacked with Zerene Stacker, I took today using the PB-4 and tile (up and down). My first thoughts are that this is a real help in stacking. … just reporting.
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Bjørn Rørslett

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Re: Get the Point? Technical Lens Movements and Stacking
« Reply #1 on: April 05, 2016, 23:50:54 »
A crash course 101 on terminology for view cameras: technically, "tilt" to the side is a swing. Shifting up is rise, shifting down is fall.

Michael Erlewine

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Re: Get the Point? Technical Lens Movements and Stacking
« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2016, 00:00:55 »
A crash course 101 on terminology for view cameras: technically, "tilt" to the side is a swing. Shifting up is rise, shifting down is fall.


What is tilting up and down called?
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Bjørn Rørslett

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Re: Get the Point? Technical Lens Movements and Stacking
« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2016, 00:04:53 »
That is just tilt up and tilt down.

Michael Erlewine

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Re: Get the Point? Technical Lens Movements and Stacking
« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2016, 00:10:22 »
That is just tilt up and tilt down.

I will do some homework. But, you get the idea, I imagine.
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Frank Fremerey

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Re: Get the Point? Technical Lens Movements and Stacking
« Reply #5 on: April 06, 2016, 00:36:04 »
My first thoughts are that this is a real help in stacking. … just reporting.

I am watching in awe where this will take you
You are out there. You and your camera. You can shoot or not shoot as you please. Discover the world, Your world. Show it to us. Or we might never see it.

Me: https://youpic.com/photographer/frankfremerey/

Jakov Minić

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Re: Get the Point? Technical Lens Movements and Stacking
« Reply #6 on: April 06, 2016, 00:40:49 »

What is tilting up and down called?

Jojo.
Free your mind and your ass will follow. - George Clinton
Before I jump like monkey give me banana. - Fela Kuti
Confidence is what you have before you understand the problem. - Woody Allen

Michael Erlewine

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Re: Get the Point? Technical Lens Movements and Stacking
« Reply #7 on: April 06, 2016, 00:54:00 »
The takeaway, for me, form this is that by aligning areas that otherwise might appear more distant, there is a GREAT improvements as far as I see in the amount of artifacts produced by the stacking software. It really helps and looks good too.
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Dr Klaus Schmitt

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Re: Get the Point? Technical Lens Movements and Stacking
« Reply #8 on: April 06, 2016, 03:46:16 »
I dare to say the magic word: SCHEIMPFLUG
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Michael Erlewine

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Re: Get the Point? Technical Lens Movements and Stacking
« Reply #10 on: April 06, 2016, 12:52:31 »
I love the diagrams and used to try to measure out things, but I find it much, much easier just to use LiveView, look through my Zacuto Z-Finder, and visually twist the lens around until it looks right.
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Bjørn Rørslett

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Re: Get the Point? Technical Lens Movements and Stacking
« Reply #11 on: April 06, 2016, 13:18:08 »
Do take your time becoming acquainted with the Scheimpflug principle. This insight can prevent you from wasting time with endless adjustments in a scenario where the principle would be violated by the camera set up and thus no matter how much you twist the lens or alter movements, you cannot achieve a proper configuration. Believe me, this is easily done.

Michael Erlewine

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Re: Get the Point? Technical Lens Movements and Stacking
« Reply #12 on: April 06, 2016, 13:35:14 »
Do take your time becoming acquainted with the Scheimpflug principle. This insight can prevent you from wasting time with endless adjustments in a scenario where the principle would be violated by the camera set up and thus no matter how much you twist the lens or alter movements, you cannot achieve a proper configuration. Believe me, this is easily done.

Of course I will do just that, but so far what I am looking for I can see without any calculation. I am not looking at a field of flowers, but using the movements to obviate the single greatest cause of artifacts in my work, which is the distance between the point of front focus and the point of back focus. By including them into the same plane (or thereabouts) , some of the worst artifacts are avoided.

I can see this with my eyes and the software proves this to me. The most difficult, time-consuming, and "hopeless" part of focus stacking is the retouching required. Some artifacts can be removed, while others cannot. It is much easier, when convenient, to address the artifact problem with bellows movements than in post retouching. So far, that is my experience.
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Frank Fremerey

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Re: Get the Point? Technical Lens Movements and Stacking
« Reply #13 on: April 06, 2016, 13:46:15 »
Do take your time becoming acquainted with the Scheimpflug principle. This insight can prevent you from wasting time with endless adjustments in a scenario where the principle would be violated by the camera set up and thus no matter how much you twist the lens or alter movements, you cannot achieve a proper configuration. Believe me, this is easily done.

I experience that sometimes.
Then I reset the whole to zero, move the tripod away from the scene, zero the camera in all movements, take a few deep breaths and start afresh, ignoring all I have done before.
As you said earlier, a higher vantage point can be the solution.
It can also be a better point to start.
You are out there. You and your camera. You can shoot or not shoot as you please. Discover the world, Your world. Show it to us. Or we might never see it.

Me: https://youpic.com/photographer/frankfremerey/