Cedar Waxwing

[bobfriedman]

i don't really like this BG either..  your point is valid and i want to find out under what conditions amplify the problem..  (i don't use VR by the way unless i absolutely need it - and with shutter speeds less than 1/500s)

Nikon D5 ,Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 600mm f/4E FL ED VR
1/3200s f/9.0 at 600.0mm iso2800

[bobfriedman]

an excuse to buy an 800mm, a D850 or both

not sure that solves the problem Erik.  and i have a D850 but the 16k USD for the 800 is a bit much for me.


Nikon D850 ,Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 600mm f/4E FL ED VR
1/1000s f/8.0 at 850.0mm iso1600

[Jakov Minić]

Bob, I haven't seen better bird images.
The passion you have for bird photography is clearly seen in your images.

I can only guess what causes the not so pleasing background, whether it is the use of a TC, or whether it is the use of VR probably has something to do with the out of focus rendering.
Another guess of mine would be that you have slightly oversharpened the images?
Most likely it is just about the new 600mm f/4 FL ED VR. A comparisson between the two 600mm lenses might provide some answers.

[bobfriedman]

I can only guess what causes the not so pleasing background, whether it is the use of a TC, or whether it is the use of VR probably has something to do with the out of focus rendering.
Another guess of mine would be that you have slightly oversharpened the images?
Most likely it is just about the new 600mm f/4 FL ED VR. A comparisson between the two 600mm lenses might provide some answers.

if you notice i have examples of both lenses above.. i try not to oversharpen.. and i as said i don't use VR unless i absolutely need to and under 1/500s shutter speed..

VR and a TC used below

Nikon D5 ,Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 600mm f/4E FL ED VR
1/160s f/8.0 at 850.0mm iso5000


Nikon D5 ,Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 600mm f/4E FL ED VR
1/500s f/8.0 at 1000.0mm iso16000

[bobfriedman]

VR used here with monopod.. and i smoothed the BG is was so bad.. NO TC

Nikon D5 ,Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 600mm f/4E FL ED VR
1/250s f/8.0 at 600.0mm iso12800

[Frank Fremerey]

VR can cause these artifacts. Yes, have seen it with my 300PF. Convincing examples. I was not aware that the TC has such a strong influence on bokeh. I knew that the 14E3 has a clear influence on detail rendering (softens).

I love your pictures, knowing how long it takes exploring and waiting for these situations I can estimate the time and effort it took to shoot these. World Class shots.

[Jakov Minić]

if you notice i have examples of both lenses above.. i try not to oversharpen.. and i as said i don't use VR unless i absolutely need to and under 1/500s shutter speed..

VR and a TC used below

Hi Bob,

What i did notice is that you are recording bad bokeh when shooting against the light and with light being diffracted through the leaves, branches, or ground foliage.
That is something that i strive for in my blurry quest
Below an example, ok, used with Zenit 85/1.5, a lens that has all the qualities to achieve such a bokeh.
Nevertheless, even with exemplary lenses, like the Nikon 600mm, harshness in the out of focus areas can easily be visible (and accentuated when sharpening).

In your latest images above in low contrast and when the light isn't harsh, you will never experience bad bokeh

[Nikkor Shooter]

Niiiice… great number of captures here Bob, though I
would have different rendition views… so personal!

[bobfriedman]

Could have been VR in the first but I think I shut it off as it was long ago now.

Also. The images I posted were to illustrate the points I was making. As such they all had one sort of problem or other.

[Kuri]

This term 'rendition', 'render', etc., seems to be popping up a lot here and there. I suppose it might mean a lot of different things. A group of things?
Could anyone define that term a little better?

Bob, I always appreciate your list of equipment and settings used for each photo. Some don't show any info at all, it is really nice to know.
I also am always curious about the names of each bird/animal. That would be great info for each photo also.

[bobfriedman]

rendition: the practice of sending a foreign criminal or terrorist suspect covertly to be interrogated in a country with less rigorous regulations for the humane treatment of prisoners. 

[bobfriedman]

What i did notice is that you are recording bad bokeh when shooting against the light and with light being diffracted through the leaves, branches, or ground foliage.

In your latest images above in low contrast and when the light isn't harsh, you will never experience bad bokeh

interesting observation as it definitely fits with my experience.. thx!

[Nikkor Shooter]

This term 'rendition', 'render', etc., seems to be popping up a lot here and there. I suppose it might mean a lot of different things. A group of things?
Could anyone define that term a little better?

synonyms: performance, rendering, interpretation, presentation, execution…


The RAW data — recorded by the mineral sensor — has to be
translated in a more organic rendition through a given set of
tweaks on the different attributes of the recorded data.

Those tweaks — applied with pertinence, experience and good
taste — will yield more or less successful renditions.

[Kuri]

That's what I thought, a broad category and set of possible adjustments.
Nothing specific to the term, just meaning a different version, but undefined other than that.
Specific adjustment suggestions are more meaningful or helpful.
Thanks for your explanation.

[Nikkor Shooter]

That's what I thought, a broad category and set of possible adjustments.
Nothing specific to the term, just meaning a different version, but undefined other than that.
Specific adjustment suggestions are more meaningful or helpful.
Thanks for your explanation.

No, and there can't be!


Technical rendition, artistic or natural renditions are all left
to the arbitrary of the author… he defines the rendition,
tastefully or not.


Different cooks will propose the same mean with each his
own twist… you to decide which is good, bad or the best.