Author Topic: I thought DX is long gone....  (Read 8230 times)

Frank Fremerey

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Re: I thought DX is long gone....
« Reply #15 on: March 11, 2017, 15:29:41 »
Peter: as far as I know Fuji is the only company in the world selling cameras for profit.

Sony is losing money on Cameras too but they earn selling sensors.

Canon and Ricoh sponsor their camera business with printing

Nikon used to sponsor cameras selling fab equipment. Now that tge steppers are in deep red too all Nikon departments are losing money. What about the newly acquired medical optics department? Dunno.

So the choice here is not about making money but about containing losses and maybe one day get back on track.

I agree that the cameras are so good noone really has to upgrade fast. But. Sometimes innovation is so profund like coming to fifth gen Nikon from 3rd or 4th gen Nikon, it is mind blowing. Same for some of the current optics. The 1.4/105E is second to none. Pure magic in my hands.

We have D4 >> D5 and D300 >> D500. Next is D810 >> D820 and D750 >> D760 all with Exspeed 5 and the superb other features.

I think it is wise to have 3 levels of FX ... cheapo ... high res ... sports
I do not think if it is wise to have 4 levels of DX
You are out there. You and your camera. You can shoot or not shoot as you please. Discover the world, Your world. Show it to us. Or we might never see it.

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Peter Forsell

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Re: I thought DX is long gone....
« Reply #16 on: March 11, 2017, 15:45:25 »
Peter: as far as I know Fuji is the only company in the world selling cameras for profit.

Sony is losing money on Cameras too but they earn selling sensors.

Ok, haven't really paid attention to their finances.

We have D4 >> D5 and D300 >> D500. Next is D810 >> D820 and D750 >> D760 all with Exspeed 5 and the superb other features.

I don't have any use for the Expeed features either because I shoot raw. No auto white balance, no vignetting correction, no contrast curves, no Active D-Lighting, no noise reduction and I don't shoot video. I shoot raw stills and the raw data goes without processing from sensor to card, AFAIK.


Frank Fremerey

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Re: I thought DX is long gone....
« Reply #17 on: March 11, 2017, 18:23:58 »
The fifth gen cameras feature all the things I mentioned above (IQ, AF, ISO performance, color consitency, white balance, speed) and more. It is all in the chipset of Exspeed5 and AF-Chip. I shoot RAW too, although I long to find a setting for events which I can use to deliver the Camera JPEGs directly to the customer like I did a lot with the D3.

Frankly I do not know how "cooked" the RAWs are. I guess it is different from camera to camera and sensor to sensor. There is a lot or analogue circurity on the Sensor, which is digitally tweaked ...

You are out there. You and your camera. You can shoot or not shoot as you please. Discover the world, Your world. Show it to us. Or we might never see it.

Me: https://youpic.com/photographer/frankfremerey/

Ilkka Nissilä

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Re: I thought DX is long gone....
« Reply #18 on: March 11, 2017, 18:38:14 »
"Cooking" raw data before storing it throws away information and makes the file less valuable. The best raw file is one which is just raw.

Jack Dahlgren

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Re: I thought DX is long gone....
« Reply #19 on: March 11, 2017, 19:47:39 »
"Cooking" raw data before storing it throws away information and makes the file less valuable. The best raw file is one which is just raw.

This is only true in situations where you have the ability to cook it as well or better than the original capture device. And when the cost (time,$, effort, expertise) is in proportion to the benefit.

Sometimes pre-cooking can add a lot of value.

Ilkka Nissilä

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Re: I thought DX is long gone....
« Reply #20 on: March 11, 2017, 21:14:16 »
Some damage done by clipping the blacks in older Nikons (D800E):

http://blog.kasson.com/the-last-word/d810-vs-d800e-dark-field-histograms/

This means if trying to use the camera to photograph nebulae by averaging multiple exposures, at some point no more information is revealed because Nikon tampered with the raw data at high ISO. There is less of it in the newer D810 and on the D5 the histogram appears unclipped.

http://blog.kasson.com/the-last-word/nikon-d5-dark-field-histograms-at-high-iso-settings/

I don't understand the justification of sabotaging the raw data. I understand if the idea is to hide spatial patterns of noise or artifacts but a better solution is to provide the original data to the raw converters and publish the algorithms Nikon recommends so third party raw converter developers can correct the data and yet have access to the original, unprocessed data should the user need it.

David H. Hartman

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Re: I thought DX is long gone....
« Reply #21 on: March 11, 2017, 21:50:39 »
Ilkka Nissilä,

Isn't there a Nikon D810A that addresses this? I haven't read up on the D810A so I don't know but I guessed that's what it's about.

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Matthew Currie

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Re: I thought DX is long gone....
« Reply #22 on: March 11, 2017, 22:57:39 »
I'm not a pro by any means, and tend not to be a super pixel peeper, and have found DX works pretty well for my needs.  When I finally (rather late) went to digital, I got a D3200, largely for cost and portability, and have used it a lot in the last three years or so with rewarding results, except that I have been annoyed by high ISO noise and the cheesy viewfinder which makes manual lens and macro work difficult.  I recently graduated to a D7100, which is nicer in many ways.  But I was always surprised by how good an image even the lowly D3200 can produce under the right conditions.

My main motivation for getting a full frame camera, if I did, would be the relative ease of getting wider angles and shallower depth of field, and the relatively better viewfinder.  As a secondary issue, because I have a lot of older lenses, it seems as if it would be a nice thing to get the fields of view they were originally good for.  But I'm finding I'm in no big hurry for this.  The ability to use older lenses, even if the field of view is different, is a feature I really like. 

Of course this will vary with what you do and how you do it.  I travel a good bit these days, and need something light, and also not so valuable that it would break my heart to lose it.  I try not to have to check any baggage. The D3200 with cheap lenses is a perfect traveling rig for me, and the D7100, though a bit bigger, is still in the running.

If I were a wedding photographer or worked in a studio, I'd likely choose differently.

John Geerts

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Re: I thought DX is long gone....
« Reply #23 on: March 12, 2017, 09:43:25 »
I am rediscovering the joys of the DX format with the Fuji S5 Pro (although I wished it was a Full Frame sensor).   On the wide side the 10-20 Sigma f/4-5.6 is a pretty good lens with a 15mm Full Frame equivalent.

chambeshi

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Re: I thought DX is long gone....
« Reply #24 on: March 12, 2017, 13:27:53 »
I'd say I'm pretty format agnostic these days.

I'm also format agnostic, but only regarding bodies. After trials with several DX lenses, I now only use FX.

I use the D500 with FX supertelephotos (300 - 600 with TCE14 and TCE2 III) for wildlife. Nearly always use ultrawides only on FX, I now finally have a Df (wonderful instrument). Awaiting the outcomes on the future of the "new D810" this year but will get a D810 should Nikon disappoint.

My wish for a D500-like FX-body is also caused by ergonomics, and the wonderfol responsiveness I experience in the D500.

I tried the D750 but prefer the Df and D810, and the D500 especially for its controls and ergonomics. If hoepfully Nikon might choose to expand on the superb design of the D500 as a scaled brand-wide design, day to day life with Nikon would be even better :-)

BTW I just bought at Foyles here in London this very useful guide to the D500 published last year. A meaty volume that solves a few mysteries in the inner workings and Menu settings etc:

DAVID BUSCHS NIKON D500 GUIDE TO DIGITAL SLR PHOTOGRAPHY

https://www.rockynook.com/shop/photography/david-buschs-nikon-d500-guide-to-digital-photography/

Ilkka Nissilä

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Re: I thought DX is long gone....
« Reply #25 on: March 12, 2017, 14:01:03 »
Isn't there a Nikon D810A that addresses this? I haven't read up on the D810A so I don't know but I guessed that's what it's about.


The D810A has increased red sensitivity which makes it enhance nebulae. However, it is a full frame camera and nebulae would require extremely long focal lengths to fill the frame with. The advertising material Nikon presented showed what you could do if you can afford a $200000 5600mm telescope, among others. For most amateur astrophotography enthusiasts, I believe DX may be a better choice. For night landscapes with the Milky Way, and generally wide angle images FX is better, but then does the difference in filtration warrant the high price for such applications alone? I guess if one is  wealthy enough then this camera is a good option among others. The SNR at high ISO is reported to be better than the normal D810 because of the lower filtering of light but then color accuracy may suffer.

Anyway the D810A does have a better live view which permits longer shutter speeds for use at night. I would like to see this implemented in the "normal color" DSLRs. For deep sky objects probably Nikon should have considered a DX model as a platform for a modified sensor but they didn't. I don't quite understand the decision making on this one.

I guess it is an example of Nikon making a camera which is targeted at a very small group of users. However, I believe for financial success Nikon should think more about the intermediate level (and intermediate budget) user.

Frank Fremerey

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Re: I thought DX is long gone....
« Reply #26 on: March 12, 2017, 18:38:27 »
The D810A has increased red sensitivity which makes it enhance nebulae. However, it is a full frame camera and nebulae would require extremely long focal lengths to fill the frame with. The advertising material Nikon presented showed what you could do if you can afford a $200000 5600mm telescope, among others.

If you require long telephoto for a reasonable price, you might want to talk to my father who build his own:



His website including some amazing footage is here, if you understand German: http://astro-vr.de/

You are out there. You and your camera. You can shoot or not shoot as you please. Discover the world, Your world. Show it to us. Or we might never see it.

Me: https://youpic.com/photographer/frankfremerey/

Jack Dahlgren

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Re: I thought DX is long gone....
« Reply #27 on: March 12, 2017, 19:39:44 »
If you require long telephoto for a reasonable price, you might want to talk to my father who build his own:

His photos of the moon are spectacular. I also appreciate the achievements of capturing the other planets, but have been spoiled by images from probes which have visited those places.

Akira

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Re: I thought DX is long gone....
« Reply #28 on: March 12, 2017, 23:27:28 »
Frank, is that a schiefspiegler?  Looks nice!
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Frank Fremerey

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Re: I thought DX is long gone....
« Reply #29 on: March 13, 2017, 03:10:43 »
Ask him. He can speak English. I am neither interested in deep space or planet photos nor do I know much. I just like the simplicity of his approaches and the fun that people do not believe the open construction can work until they see the results. The idea to get high resolution still images from video feeds with and without color filters seems very interesting to me and I ask myself what would be gained or lost if the video feed came from a D500 or D810A.

For this thread it was only a hint that one can build 3 meters focal length for relatively cheap.
You are out there. You and your camera. You can shoot or not shoot as you please. Discover the world, Your world. Show it to us. Or we might never see it.

Me: https://youpic.com/photographer/frankfremerey/