V3 owners: Does your V3 give you correct exposure in S-mode?

[Bjørn Rørslett]

As explained by Johan and independently tested and verified by Andrea, this is clearly a bug specific to the V3. Report this bug to the nearest Nikon subsidiary (probably Nikon Nordic if you live in Sweden). Meanwhile, use Andrea's clever work-around.

My hunch is the problem is caused by an error in the firmware dealing with video.

[jpgrahn]

Thanks for helping me look at this problem!
Immensely appreciated!
Andrea together with user Dave (on Dpreview) and myself makes six confirmed cases. Maybe we are building a case here!
I don't have much hope of getting av fix for it. Unless it is firmware related. But a rekognition of the problem from Nikon would mean a lot.

I will be in touch with Nikon again on Monday. I promised not to badger them during the weekend.
Will keep you posted.

/Johan

[jpgrahn]

YES !!!!!!!!!!!! I can reproduce the problem in my V3.
It happens in S-mode for all apertures from f/6.3 - f/16 when using the 10 or 20 fps setting

S:        1/200", f/11
6fps:    1/200", f/11
10 fps: 1/200", f/5.6 OVEREXPOSED
20 fps: 1/200", f/5.6 OVEREXPOSED
30 fps:  1/200", f/11

My other settings were --
Auto-focus: Single Point
Metering: Spot
WB: Incandescent (I was indoors.)
ISO: 6400 (I went with the highest just so as to eliminate ISO as a factor.)


*************************

Johan, I have a suggested work-around, a pseudo-S-mode.

Use Manual Mode with Auto-ISO turned on. Dial in your desired fixed Speed and fixed Aperture, then Auto-ISO will work to set the proper exposure. You can switch to any of the continuous fps modes and the Speed and Aperture settings will not change for any of the 6/10/20/30/60 fps settings. If the light does not change, then the original setting chosen by Auto-ISO will also not change. It may go up or down by a fractional stop if the light is variable.
(In good light Auto-ISO may not be needed if you choose the initial ISO wisely.)

I tested this Manual Auto-ISO mode at all continuous frame settings and got no changes in steady light.

Thanks Andrea for your effort!
It is a good suggestion. I also noted that the problem seems to be isolated to S-mode.
To be honest, only recently have I started to use Auto-ISO. Probably just because Auto-ISO was never part of the equation when I learned photography. And my first Nikon DSLRs, the D1H and the D2H, were not very good at higher ISOs. The Nikon 1 cameras are not great either but with good software it is possible to get descent picture at surprisingly high ISO.

/Johan

[Ilkka Nissilä]

One possibility is that the aperture simply doesn't have time to close down that deep and open up at those fps rates (20). At even faster fps settings the camera probably keeps the aperture stopped down during the burst. But if manual mode does allow the correct settings without exception then I can't think of a reason why it would work in this way in S mode. Unless S mode requires wide open between shots to measure the light and M mode does not?

[Bjørn Rørslett]

As the aperture is controlled electronically, it shouldn't matter whether the iris actually is closed down or not for light metering. Wide-open metering confers better accuracy, though, but that isn't an issue here.

[Ilkka Nissilä]

Since the aperture blades are physical they still take a finite time to move. On Sony SLT cameras there are limitations in availability of the highest fps settings depending on aperture selected and whether AF is to be tracking between shots in a burst. Here is some discussion:

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4070345

[Bjørn Rørslett]

If movement of the blades was a limitation, random f-numbers should be achieved. Here the difference for the out-of-order cases is precisely 2 stops all the time.

[jpgrahn]

One possibility is that the aperture simply doesn't have time to close down that deep and open up at those fps rates (20). At even faster fps settings the camera probably keeps the aperture stopped down during the burst. But if manual mode does allow the correct settings without exception then I can't think of a reason why it would work in this way in S mode. Unless S mode requires wide open between shots to measure the light and M mode does not?

As far as can tell the aperture will lock to whatever value was chosen at the beginning of the sequence. If the light changes during the series the aperture does not change.
When I try to let the speed or the ISO be the variable instead (A-mode or Auto ISO) the exposure will change depending on the light.
I guess it is easier to make a change in a value that is electronically controlled only. Changing the aperture meanse to physically move the aperture and at such high frequences there is no time to do this.

I don't find this limitation so much of a problem. Especially since I can let the camera change the ISO automatically.

/Johan

[Jack Dahlgren]

One possibility is that the aperture simply doesn't have time to close down that deep and open up at those fps rates (20). At even faster fps settings the camera probably keeps the aperture stopped down during the burst. But if manual mode does allow the correct settings without exception then I can't think of a reason why it would work in this way in S mode. Unless S mode requires wide open between shots to measure the light and M mode does not?

The data seems to suggest it is a firmware problem.

[jpgrahn]

The data seems to suggest it is a firmware problem.

My thought, and hope, as well.
If this turns out to be hardware related there is absolutely no way Nikon is going to fix it. That is, if this problem exists in every V3. That is at this moment unclear. Sofar nobody has come back and told me clearly that their V3 can set small apertures at 10fps and 20 fps.
However, if my camera was one of the early ones manufactured and Nikon discovered the problem and fixed it on later models there is still hope. There might be spare parts that can be used.
I don't know much about manufacturing of high tech electronics but I assume that this kind of thing is not possible to buy at your nearest Radio Shack. These are highly specialized boards manufactured to exact specifications in limited numbers. And we all know what happened to DL...

Thanks to all of you for your interest in my problem!
I just sent a message, one more of many, to Nikon Support reporting the confirmation I got here plus one confirmation I got from a Facebook group (Nikon 1 Enthusiasts).
I will keep you posted about this.

/Johan

[Andrea B.]

My AW1 (the waterproof Nikon 1) also has this S-mode bug when set to 15fps.
At the other settings of S, 5, 30 and 60 fps there is no change to the aperture setting.

Here are my basic settings and one data sample.
ISO 6400. WB Auto. Matrix Metering. AF-S. AF Single Point.

S        1/250" f/8
5fps    1/250" f/8
15fps  1/250" f/5.6 OVEREXPOSED
30fps  1/250" f/8
60fps  1/250" f/8

Again, the Workaround is to use Manual Mode with Auto-ISO (as mentioned above). I would suggest using the A800 Auto-ISO to restrict ISO changes to between 160-800. If you are choosing your initial Speed and Aperture settings carefully according to the ambient light, then you should not expect to see much ISO variation. Once you have tested your settings, then while remaining in Manual/Auto-ISO mode, you can select any of the continous fps settings and the aperture will remain fixed. (Well, unless the light changes, of course.  )

[jpgrahn]

My AW1 (the waterproof Nikon 1) also has this S-mode bug when set to 15fps.
At the other settings of S, 5, 30 and 60 fps there is no change to the aperture setting.

Here are my basic settings and one data sample.
ISO 6400. WB Auto. Matrix Metering. AF-S. AF Single Point.

S        1/250" f/8
5fps    1/250" f/8
15fps  1/250" f/5.6 OVEREXPOSED
30fps  1/250" f/8
60fps  1/250" f/8

Again, the Workaround is to use Manual Mode with Auto-ISO (as mentioned above). I would suggest using the A800 Auto-ISO to restrict ISO changes to between 160-800. If you are choosing your initial Speed and Aperture settings carefully according to the ambient light, then you should not expect to see much ISO variation. Once you have tested your settings, then while remaining in Manual/Auto-ISO mode, you can select any of the continous fps settings and the aperture will remain fixed. (Well, unless the light changes, of course.  )

Thanks for checking this out. Personally I would like to hear someone with a J5 try it.
I got another confirmed user seeing the same thing from the Facebook user group.
I am pretty sure all V3s have this problem. Nobody has come back saying that their V3 CAN set the correct aperture at 10 fps and 20 fps.

Maybe someone thinks "What is the big fuss about?"
Well, it's true I can manage to get around it. I just don't like being told to read the manual in a rather condenscending manner. So the first objective is to get Nikon to rekognize the problem.
Which I am sure they eventually will do.

/Johan

[Øivind Tøien]

My AW1 (the waterproof Nikon 1) also has this S-mode bug when set to 15fps.
At the other settings of S, 5, 30 and 60 fps there is no change to the aperture setting.

Confirmed problem at 15fps with AW1 in S-mode, but only if aperture is set above f/5.6. The funny thing is that the AW1 apparently "knows" that it is doing something wrong and not exposing correctly, as f/5.6 is blinking when this happens. Tested with 50mm f/1.8 and FT-1 that happened to be mounted.

I think this must be the first time I ever used my AW1 in S mode...

[jpgrahn]

Quick update.

Nikon got back to me today and the camera will go back to them.
Meanwhile I have had a few more responding that they can see the same thing.

I only have a V1 and a V3 to check.
AW1 has the problem and one person has confirmed that the V2 has a similar problem as well.
If I get a chance I will check out a J5 to see if it is fixed there.

Will let you know as soon as I get more information from Nikon.
On the whole, Nikon cameras has given me very few problems over the years. Big reason for me to keep using them. And the few times I have had them serviced it has been well done.

/Johan

[Bent Hjarbo]

The V2 follows the pattern from the AW1, only in 15 FPS it won't use smaller aperture than 5.6, but it blinks with the value.