Where companies are in the market (per Thom Hogan)

[chambeshi]

Hear! Hear !! Best synopsis I've read yet why Nikon rocks 

this post + others

Lenses are the heaviest investments; camera backs come and go.

The fact I have an "open door" to Nikon's elder lenses is another reason why I am glad I switched; fascinating history



If anything, Nikon seems to be gravitating to producing the finest-quality they can (D5, D500, D810, Flourite lenses, 105 f1/4, etc.)


I appreciate the efforts of these new companies, as well as fringe older companies, but the grass isn't truly greener "over there" IMO ... it's as green as it gets right here

Jack

[MILLIREHM]

Whereas there is some truth in this analysis, it wont be helpful if Nikon continues to decrease overall sales despite offering quality equipment.

[Ilkka Nissilä]

It takes time to achieve or rebuild a reputation for quality. If people diss Nikon when they make better gear than ever, this is precisely what prevents them from being successful. Making a lot of money on selling rubbish should not be the goal.

[chambeshi]

Whereas there is some truth in this analysis, it wont be helpful if Nikon continues to decrease overall sales despite offering quality equipment.

It takes time to achieve or rebuild a reputation for quality. If people diss Nikon when they make better gear than ever, this is precisely what prevents them from being successful. Making a lot of money on selling rubbish should not be the goal.

I don't have raw statistics [such as sales of items/yr) in each main format. Yet, the photography industry has exploded in raw volume since the first digitals reached the market in the 1990s along different and diverging trajectories. Everybody wants the permanent visual record and the media feeds this lust. Demography = more consumers and GLOBALLY it is one massive primary variable in what is a complex equation. Today, surely the multiple uses of cellular "phones" speak volumes? Especially true in the 3rd world, where smaller "cameras" are easier to carry and avoid theft etc [not only in the street but from bullies of corrupt officials at borders etc... as with Zimbabwean customs %^*&%%$!! ; they confiscate to resell such stolen goods for personal gain

Fascinating examples of Schumpteran economics in real-time....innovations into not one but n+ expanding markets; there are more ways than ever before for Homo sapiens to record a visual record

It follows the single excel across such a diverse ecosystem. The SLR film camera industry that peaked before the millennium  in the 1st Gen AF lenses is not even a dinosaur compared to 4+ decades on. It's analogous to the expansion of biodiversity since the Proterozoic inaugurated by the Cambrian Explosion of multicellular life...followed by the radiations of life on land.

It's probably corporate suicide for the likes of Nikon to innovate all market niches AND succeed. Yes, stay away from rubbish and build innovations into the 21st century on world leading successes, surely.

[CS]

Don't like Thom Hogan's tone.

I've read that Nikon doesn't like his remarks either. OTOH, that doesn't make Hogan wrong in his assessments. Camera sales are down and Nikon has lost market share, which in the scheme of things, is not good for them or their customers. They have also managed to alienate many of their customers with their version of customer support.

Hogan would like to see Nikon not only succeed, but excel. A lot of us share that sentiment, me included. 

[Bjørn Rørslett]

Just a comment from the side line: the quality of Nikon support varies through the world. In some areas, it is excellent.

Canon users also complain about their support. Rumours have it a few other well-known makers face similar complaints.

[John Koerner]

Whereas there is some truth in this analysis, it wont be helpful if Nikon continues to decrease overall sales despite offering quality equipment.

Everyone is going to "decrease overall sales" in a shrinking marketplace.

Nobody really needs budget cameras anymore, with cell phones filling the lower (and even mid-) level niches.

To stay in the camera business, in an age where cell phones have gobbled-up the "general purpose" marketplace, camera companies are going to have to stay with the best, highest-end cameras they make ... and the best, highest-end lenses they make ... SOOO good, that no "phone" can ever duplicate what they do ... and at a price point where they still profit.

To me, that is exactly what Nikon is doing ... and kicking butt doing 

[Akira]

I'm not particular about brands, but at least here in Japan, Nikon offers the best user support among Panasonic, Sony, Canon and Nikon that I've used, even for me as amateur, non-NPS member.  The user support of Sony and Panasonic is just like that for the home appliances.

[John Koerner]

I've read that Nikon doesn't like his remarks either. OTOH, that doesn't make Hogan wrong in his assessments. Camera sales are down and Nikon has lost market share, which in the scheme of things, is not good for them or their customers.

I really believe all camera sales are down, because of cell phones (not because of inter-camera-company competition). The ease and quality of modern cell phone cameras have gobbled-up a HUGE share of the marketplace ... and that will never change.

The "other" share of the marketplace is high-end ... and now, with the Sony, Fuji, Pentax, etc. all rising in their "portrait-landscape" type cameras, these are eating into Nikon's territory, and maybe more so than Canon's. But the fact is Nikon is still FAR and away enjoying the 2nd Place position (behind only Canon) in overall sales ...

The really big point of consideration is, Nikon occupies The #1 Position in more high-end segments than anyone in the camera/lens business.

On another thread I showed, of the absolute best cameras and lenses made, Nikon is the leader. [Check out DxO Mark, or LenScore, and you will see the total domination of Nikon at the highest end. 2-1 (or more) over the others.]

Hogan is mute on this. If he really cared about "Nikon's sales," he would underscore this fact.

They have also managed to alienate many of their customers with their version of customer support.

I haven't had to experience Nikon support, because their products are good

Still, as Bjørn said, customer support (of any brand) varies because the temperaments of people vary ...

I am sure Nikon has great, supportive customer people in place (as well as lousy ones), like anyone else.

Hogan would like to see Nikon not only succeed, but excel. A lot of us share that sentiment, me included. 

Hogan comes off like a pompous jerk, IMO. His tone is neither friendly, intellectual, nor positive, only critical and arrogant.

IMO, he unnecessarily-negative.

If a person were to look at the facts, and study which camera/lens manufacturer came out with the MOST significant products in 2016, they would see Nikon came out with more of the absolute best cameras/lenses than anyone.

Nikon's D5 and Canon's 1DX II were equivalent ... but the D5's AF system is the true advancement ...

None of Canon's other cameras hit the grand slam that the D500 did.

Nikon's 105 f/1.4 is in a class by itself ... and it 70-200 VR III is a good as Canon's 35 ...

The new Fuji is "interesting," but it is nowhere near the overall powerhouse that the D500  is.

Canon's APC-Ss are anemic weaklings compared to the D500 as well.

IMO, Hogan doesn't really underscore this ... he spends way too much time "bitching and moaning" ... and way too little time appreciating how GOOD Nikon's products really are, compared to the competition.

As a public figure, for Thom Hogan to over-exaggerate the negative, and downplay what is truly positive, isn't even "honest" ... it is negatively-biased.

Hogan is no "friend" of Nikon IMO.

Jack

[richardHaw]

I'm not particular about brands, but at least here in Japan, Nikon offers the best user support among Panasonic, Sony, Canon and Nikon that I've used, even for me as amateur, non-NPS member.  The user support of Sony and Panasonic is just like that for the home appliances.

I can confirm this. I get NPS-style services from Nikon because I used to use my cameras for work and people at the counter know me for years

[Ron Scubadiver]

I love my D800, but if I was starting from scratch I would get something else, probably Canon.  The problem is Nikon will only supply parts to certain repair shops with all their special tools.  This is required even for repairs not needing the special tools.  Although I live in the 4th largest city in the US, there is not a single Nikon approved repair shop here.  That means a minimum of 3 weeks to send something off.  The result is minor problems do not get fixed.

There is some dust in my viewfinder but I could not get a repair shop to touch it because they said if the focusing screen got scratched they can't order another one from Nikon and the camera would have to be sent off.

Nikon, bite me.

[Akira]

D800/800E were really epoch-making models that made a lot of Canon users to switch to Nikon, most notably the landscape photographers.  Prior to that, D3 had played the same role.  I heard that Canon professionals, especially sports and journalism photographers, asked Canon to allow them to use Nikon D3 because they couldn't compete with the high-ISO image quality yielded by D3.

Another problem of Canon is that Canon Marketing Japan has too strong a control on the lineups of their products.  Regardless of the attractiveness of the products the designers are developing, they cannot release them or implement nice features if the products compete with the ones in other segments of Canon's own.  Canon has at least three self-competing EOS segments now, DSLR, mirrorless M and Cinema.  The awkward implementation of 4k video of the latest 5D MkVI (motion JPEG!) is one sad example.  This is really ironical because 5D Mk II was epoch-making "thanks to" its video function.  I'm not sure if there was Cinema EOS line at that time, but surely the line has grown to compete with the DSLR line.  The belated implementation of the dual pixcel sensor into M model (M5) was another example (to avoid the competition with the DSLR line).

This is very sad, because I've thought about the switch from Nikon to Canon for good a couple of times, and I actually used 5D Mk III with 40/2.8 pancake for a while.  One of the great thing about Canon was that, in live view mode, you could use the DSLR virtually as a dedicated mirrorless camera, thanks to its fast shutter response.  Up to this point, D5 is the only Nikon DSLR that can offer relatively (yes, only "relatively") acceptable response, but that is still way behind Canon's responses of even their entry-level models.  The current Canon DSLRs, especially those with the dual pixel sensors, can freely and admirably switch between DLSR and "dedicated" mirrorless.

[CS]

Please don't misunderstand, I'm not here to bash Nikon, my favorite camera manufacturer, nor am I a shill for Thom Hogan. But. facts are facts, and if Hogan points them out, I don't think that means that we should "shoot the messenger" because we don't like the facts. The thread topic is "Where companies are in the market (per Thom Hogan)", so here's the latest sales info for the Japanese market http://www.dslrbodies.com/newsviews/nikons-slow-failure-in.html.

Hardly enthusiastic results for Nikon, although the entire market is down. This is not about who makes the best camera(s), it'a about market position, current sales volume for the major players.

Look at Ron's post if you think that I was incorrect about Nikon's customer service here in the US, and he's just the tip of the iceberg. You can love or hate Thom Hogan, but he isn't controlling sales or how Nikon treats their customers here in the US. Now, I will say that Hogan and I are often on opposite sides of things, but, I can't argue with sales volume reports just because I don't like what I see. 

[Ilkka Nissilä]

Worldwide market share both in units as well as monetary terms would be more interesting than just unit sales in one country. Anyway, I think we all agree that Nikon has lost market share but from these data we cannot make conclusions about worldwide sales.

Also it seems customer service level by Nikon USA has been declining for a while now. Again this doesn't tell us about the situation in other countries. In Finland I have found the service to be excellent. The service is done by JAS (Nikon used to have their own in house repair but they outsourced it). No complaints from me. Sometimes they repair stuff for free even though it was my fault something broke. Quite the opposite of what I hear from some US customers.

[CS]

Worldwide market share both in units as well as monetary terms would be more interesting than just unit sales in one country. Anyway, I think we all agree that Nikon has lost market share but from these data we cannot make conclusions about worldwide sales.

Also it seems customer service level by Nikon USA has been declining for a while now. Again this doesn't tell us about the situation in other countries. In Finland I have found the service to be excellent. The service is done by JAS (Nikon used to have their own in house repair but they outsourced it). No complaints from me. Sometimes they repair stuff for free even though it was my fault something broke. Quite the opposite of what I hear from some US customers.

Indeed, a good example of service in a place other than the US, and as Bjørn has pointed out, things are not the same everywhere. Personally, I would love to see Nikon excel everywhere, as well as reestablish their good customer relations here.

Still, Nikon's results against it's competition in it's home market is newsworthy, IMO, and in keeping on topic can't be blamed on Hogan's remarks, which is my point.