Author Topic: number of aperture blades a lens has and its effect  (Read 18037 times)

Roland Vink

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Re: number of aperture blades a lens has and its effect
« Reply #30 on: March 07, 2016, 23:35:26 »
A circular aperture will produce the biggest shift in focus due to spherical aberration. Lenses with shaped apertures offset the shift. Spherical aberration basically means the focal length of the lens is not constant as you go from the center of the lens to the edge of the lens.
I don't understand how this ... Yes spherical aberration means the focal length is not constant as you move from the center to the edge of the lens. For a given aperture, a circular opening will have a minimum overall radius, which surely will minimize the focal length shift from center to edge. A "shaped" aperture will need to have parts of the opening further distance from the center which would tend to increase focus shift. Or am I missing something?

null

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Re: number of aperture blades a lens has and its effect
« Reply #31 on: March 07, 2016, 23:39:20 »
The circular aperture eliminates light from the edges, produces the most dramatic shift.

A shaped aperture accepts light from closer to the center and closer to the edges, mixes light from the different focal-length regions, hence spreads out the DOF.

Akira

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Re: number of aperture blades a lens has and its effect
« Reply #32 on: March 07, 2016, 23:46:05 »
The most dreadful aperture I've ever seen was that of the licensed Planar 85/1.4 for Rollei SL2000F/3003.  There are only three blades which made an exemplary Riemannian triangle.
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Mongo

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Re: number of aperture blades a lens has and its effect
« Reply #33 on: March 08, 2016, 05:03:37 »
Schneider - Kreuznach Tele-Zenar 150mm f5.5

Mongo bought this old Schneider for next to nothing over 30 years ago. Put a "T" mount on it and discovered it was wonderful to use for portrait photos (and probably little else).  Very low contrast with a soft mellow feel which lends itself to portrait work. No less than 18 nicely rounded aperture blades constructed with beautiful precision and movement. Small - about 80mm long and 50mm at its widest. it is quite light but has a very solid feel. Focus wide open and then manually stop down before pressing the shutter button. Bit fiddly but not so much a problem for slow or studio portrait work. 

There is little doubt the number and design of the aperture blades give this lens its distinct character.

Are there any advance bids on 18 blades...?     ;D


Erik Lund

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Re: number of aperture blades a lens has and its effect
« Reply #34 on: March 08, 2016, 10:27:06 »
Old list from another forum:

 Schneider Xenar 3.5/240: 30 blades
 Noflexar 5.6/400mm: 24 blades
 TAIR-11A 2.8/135mm: 20 blades
 Komura Koki Tokyo 2.8/135mm: 20 blades
 Meyer-Optik G�rlitz Orestegor 4/300mm: 19 blades
 CZJ Biotar T 5.8/2, 58/2 (manual): 17 blades
 TAIR-3S 4.5/300mm: 16 blades
 Steinheil M�nchen Culminar 135 & 85mm: 16 blades
 Sankyo Kohki Komura 105mm f/2.5: 16 blades
 Isco-G�ttingen Tele-Westanar 135mm f/3.5: 15 blades
 Ernst Leitz Wetzlar Summarit: 1.5/5cm: 15 blades
 Ernst Leitz Wetzlar Hektor 13,5/4,5: 15 blades
 Vivitar 85/1.8 (T-mount): 15 blades
 Jupiter-9: 15 blades
 Meyer Trioplan V 100/2.8: 15 blades
 Meyer Orestor (preset Pentacon) 135/2.8: 15 blades
 Meyer Telemegor V 180/5.5: 15 blades
 Meyer Orestegor 200/4: 15 blades
 Meyer Primoplan V 75/1.9: 15 blades
 Meyer Primoplan V 58/1.9 (manual, pre-set): 14 blades
 CZJ Flektogon T 35/2.8 (pre-set): 14 blades
 KMZ Helios 44 58/2 (old KMZ version): 13 blades
 ZOMZ Jupiter-3 Π 50/1,5: 13 blades
 Meyer Telefogar V 90/3.5: 12 blades
 Meyer Trioplan 50/2.8: 12 blades
 CZJ Biotar T 58/2 (early pre-set model): 12 blades
 CZJ Biometar 80/2.8 (pre-set): 12 blades
 CZJ Tessar T 40/4.5 (manual): 10 blades
 CZJ Biotar T 75/1.5 (pre-set): 10 blades (round at f/1.8 and f/16)
 Meyer Helioplan V 40/4.5 (pre-set): 10 blades
 Meyer Primagon V 35/4.5 (pre-set): 10 blades
 Asahi Auto Takumar 35/2.3: 10 blades
Erik Lund

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Re: number of aperture blades a lens has and its effect
« Reply #35 on: March 08, 2016, 11:12:35 »
Old list from another forum:

 Schneider Xenar 3.5/240: 30 blades
 Noflexar 5.6/400mm: 24 blades
 TAIR-11A 2.8/135mm: 20 blades
 Komura Koki Tokyo 2.8/135mm: 20 blades
 Meyer-Optik G�rlitz Orestegor 4/300mm: 19 blades
 CZJ Biotar T 5.8/2, 58/2 (manual): 17 blades
 TAIR-3S 4.5/300mm: 16 blades
 Steinheil M�nchen Culminar 135 & 85mm: 16 blades
 Sankyo Kohki Komura 105mm f/2.5: 16 blades
 Isco-G�ttingen Tele-Westanar 135mm f/3.5: 15 blades
 Ernst Leitz Wetzlar Summarit: 1.5/5cm: 15 blades
 Ernst Leitz Wetzlar Hektor 13,5/4,5: 15 blades
 Vivitar 85/1.8 (T-mount): 15 blades
 Jupiter-9: 15 blades
 Meyer Trioplan V 100/2.8: 15 blades
 Meyer Orestor (preset Pentacon) 135/2.8: 15 blades
 Meyer Telemegor V 180/5.5: 15 blades
 Meyer Orestegor 200/4: 15 blades
 Meyer Primoplan V 75/1.9: 15 blades
 Meyer Primoplan V 58/1.9 (manual, pre-set): 14 blades
 CZJ Flektogon T 35/2.8 (pre-set): 14 blades
 KMZ Helios 44 58/2 (old KMZ version): 13 blades
 ZOMZ Jupiter-3 Π 50/1,5: 13 blades
 Meyer Telefogar V 90/3.5: 12 blades
 Meyer Trioplan 50/2.8: 12 blades
 CZJ Biotar T 58/2 (early pre-set model): 12 blades
 CZJ Biometar 80/2.8 (pre-set): 12 blades
 CZJ Tessar T 40/4.5 (manual): 10 blades
 CZJ Biotar T 75/1.5 (pre-set): 10 blades (round at f/1.8 and f/16)
 Meyer Helioplan V 40/4.5 (pre-set): 10 blades
 Meyer Primagon V 35/4.5 (pre-set): 10 blades
 Asahi Auto Takumar 35/2.3: 10 blades

Ohhhh, blast, I only have 3 lenses of this list  8)

Mongo

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Re: number of aperture blades a lens has and its effect
« Reply #36 on: March 08, 2016, 11:20:27 »
oh double blast !......that is a lot more than 18 blades !

Akira

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Re: number of aperture blades a lens has and its effect
« Reply #37 on: March 08, 2016, 12:01:54 »
Wow, I wonder how they can count the blades correctly in the first place.  I always lose where I start counting.   :o :o :o
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Roland Vink

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Re: number of aperture blades a lens has and its effect
« Reply #38 on: March 09, 2016, 00:35:23 »
The circular aperture eliminates light from the edges, produces the most dramatic shift.

A shaped aperture accepts light from closer to the center and closer to the edges, mixes light from the different focal-length regions, hence spreads out the DOF.
OK, but a shaped aperture would have to be extremely "out of round" to have a noticeable effect. In most non-circular apertures, the portion of light transmitted through the irregular outer area is very small in comparison to the central part - even the triangular aperture mentioned earlier - so mixing of light from different-focal-length-edges regions is hardly greater than a circular aperture. Also, most non-circular apertures close down from all directions - light is eliminated from the edges - when stopped down so you are still going to get focus shift. I'd say on most commonly used lenses, the shape of the aperture has a negligible effect on focus shift.

If you are really going to minimize focus shift on stopping down you need an aperture which continues to transmit light across the entire radius on stopping down. For example a cat's eye which is near circular (wide open) for night vision but closes down to a slit in bright light. Such an aperture would produce unusual DOF effects, since the DOF in the vertical direction hardly changes on stopping down, but increases greatly horizontally (hmmm... could be interesting).
Another example are the "sink strainer" stoppers used with some large format cameras. In some ways these act a bit like a neutral density filter in that they reduce the amount of light passing but still transmit across much of the aperture radius, so the DOF is not altered greatly.


Jakov Minić

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Re: number of aperture blades a lens has and its effect
« Reply #39 on: March 09, 2016, 01:11:12 »
Wow, I wonder how they can count the blades correctly in the first place.  I always loose where I start counting.   :o :o :o
Akira, you are so right  ;D
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Akira

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Re: number of aperture blades a lens has and its effect
« Reply #40 on: March 09, 2016, 01:51:51 »
"The eye is blind if the mind is absent." - Confucius

"Limitation is inspiration." - Akira

null

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Re: number of aperture blades a lens has and its effect
« Reply #41 on: March 09, 2016, 01:53:41 »
The West German Carl Zeiss 50/1.5 Sonnar (also under Opton name) and the modern C-Sonnar use a shaped aperture that staggers effects of spherical aberration from ~F2.8 to ~F5.6. This is where the focus shift is greatest on the Sonnar.

Tristin

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Re: number of aperture blades a lens has and its effect
« Reply #42 on: March 09, 2016, 01:55:09 »
Wow, I wonder how they can count the blades correctly in the first place.  I always lose where I start counting.   :o :o :o

It's easy, while looking into the front of the lens, use a metal tool to make a scratch on the front element over the first blade you count.  That way you can't forget where you started!   ;)

Jokes aside, while I love high numbers of rays, 18 is already quite high and I think much higher might make them look too cluttered.  Perhaps 9 is a good balance.
-Tristin

null

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Re: number of aperture blades a lens has and its effect
« Reply #43 on: March 09, 2016, 02:08:56 »
Working on a Leica lens, take off the front section and turn the lens upside down.

You will have an easy time counting them after they fall out. I've only had that happen once.