Author Topic: Can a 180 2.8D perform good in Macro?  (Read 4275 times)

Marco Lanciani

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Can a 180 2.8D perform good in Macro?
« on: September 27, 2015, 20:06:23 »
What do you think about the Nikon PN-11 + AF 180 2.8D as a macro combo?
Marco Lanciani

Erik Lund

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Re: Can a 180 2.8D perform good in Macro?
« Reply #1 on: October 05, 2015, 10:52:05 »
The AF versions has IF Internal Focusing so image quality will be degraded to some extent due to the optical formula using elements that move according to subject distance.

A far better choice for using with PN11 would be the MF 180mm ED 2.8 Ais! It uses unit focusing, all elements move at the same time...
Erik Lund

Marco Lanciani

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Re: Can a 180 2.8D perform good in Macro?
« Reply #2 on: October 05, 2015, 11:12:22 »
Erik, thank you for the information.
Marco Lanciani

Roland Vink

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Re: Can a 180 2.8D perform good in Macro?
« Reply #3 on: October 06, 2015, 09:35:01 »
The AIS 180/2.8 ED has unit focusing as Erik says. The lens is optimised for far-medium distances, at close range the performance starts to decline since the optics don't adjust for close range (no floating elements), which may be why the close focus is limited to a rather long 1.8m. Performance still remains very good provided you stop down a little. When using extension tubes, the performance at close range continues to decline as the amount of extension is increased. Even with the PN-11 (52.5mm extension, plus built-in extension of the lens focused close), quality results can be obtained at medium apertures. This is one of the combinations John Shaw used for long distance closeups.

The AF 180/2.8 has IF focusing - the inner focusing optics move with respect to the fixed front and rear elements. This allows the lens to be better corrected over a wider range of focus distances, so the focus limit was reduced to 1.5m. When using this lens on extension tubes, if the lens is "focused" at infinity the optics will be corrected for far distances, even though the whole setup now focuses relatively close, so the results will be less good (similar to the unit focusing AIS 180/2.8 ED). However if the lens is focused close, the correction will improve and you should get better results. In general, when using any lens with floating elements (CRC, IF, RF) on extension tubes, you will get best results if the lens is also focused close and not at "infinity". But don't believe me, try it for yourself and see what happens.

If you intend to do a lot of closeups with this focal length, it may be best to investigate the 180mm and 200mm macro lenses from Nikon, Sigma and Tamron. The AFS 300/4 (VR and non-VR) also focus very close for non-macro lenses (to about 1:4 magnification) so are very useful for closeups.


Erik Lund

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Re: Can a 180 2.8D perform good in Macro?
« Reply #4 on: October 06, 2015, 09:45:40 »
Thanks for the confirmation Roland.

200mm f/2.0 AFS and 300mm f/2.8 AFS both perform very badly, unusable with extension no matter how you focus it...
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Marco Lanciani

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Re: Can a 180 2.8D perform good in Macro?
« Reply #5 on: October 06, 2015, 15:48:24 »
Roland, thank you very much for your extended clarification.

So if I understand you right, I might still have chances of decent results with the AF 180, but only if I focus it at its closest range.

Any idea what magnification could I reach with such a combo - AF 180 + PN-11 and lens focused at its closest range?
I still don't have the PN-11... do you encourage the purchase and any compatibility issue with a D7000?
Marco Lanciani

Akira

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Re: Can a 180 2.8D perform good in Macro?
« Reply #6 on: October 06, 2015, 16:20:15 »
So if I understand you right, I might still have chances of decent results with the AF 180, but only if I focus it at its closest range.

Any idea what magnification could I reach with such a combo - AF 180 + PN-11 and lens focused at its closest range?
I still don't have the PN-11... do you encourage the purchase and any compatibility issue with a D7000?

Marco, I used PN-11 with D7000 for various contraptions, but I didn't encounter any compatibility issue or mechanical interference.  The problem of PN-11 itself is that the footprint of the tripod collar is so small that it is a bit tricky to mount solidly on a tripod head.  RRS used to make a dedicated A-S plate which is the best solution if you can still find one.

The length of PN-11 is 52.5mm, but it is difficult to culculate the magnification unless you know the focal length of this IF lens when set to the closest distance.
"The eye is blind if the mind is absent." - Confucius

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Bjørn Rørslett

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Re: Can a 180 2.8D perform good in Macro?
« Reply #7 on: October 06, 2015, 16:30:18 »
Expect roughly 1:3 with the PN-11 so not "macro" by definition, but nice for flowers, butterflies, and sundry other smaller objects.

Several Arca-Swiss plates fit the PN-11 well. Jjust ensure the foot base is situated into a suitable groove in the plate itself. Most plates have such grooves.

Sören Hese

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Re: Can a 180 2.8D perform good in Macro?
« Reply #8 on: January 26, 2016, 16:35:40 »
Had the 180 f2.8 AIS and used it a lot with the PB-4 extension bellow and it worked very well for me. But for serious Macro work I would go for one of the 180-200 mm Macro lenses (the 200mm AF-D is supposed to be a very good performer). The 180 f2.8 is however also a nice performer for other situations. I always regretted selling this lens and its on my AIS-purchase-list again since a while :)
 Regards, Sören