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Author Topic: some tools I found in my room  (Read 8895 times)

Frank Fremerey

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Re: some tools I found in my room
« Reply #30 on: August 23, 2015, 23:32:24 »
The broadcasting companies I reported about earlier set up their Data Centres made of tape libraries of the terabyte scale interconnected by fibre optical cables each roughly 150km away. A three way mirror with uninterruptable Power supply and mains from different parts of the electricity grid.
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You are out there. You and your camera. You can shoot or not shoot as you please. Discover the world, Your world. Show it to us. Or we might never see it.

Me: https://youpic.com/photographer/frankfremerey/

Bjørn Rørslett

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Re: some tools I found in my room
« Reply #31 on: August 23, 2015, 23:51:39 »
I fail to comprehend the relevance of comparing tape libraries with hard drives ...
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armando_m

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Re: some tools I found in my room
« Reply #32 on: August 24, 2015, 00:17:02 »
backup storage on tape is more reliable than on disk
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Armando Morales
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Bjørn Rørslett

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Re: some tools I found in my room
« Reply #33 on: August 24, 2015, 00:54:00 »
Perhaps. Perhaps not. Data errors are more common. But error corrections might function better. Access time shouldn't be mentioned at all of course.

I have a backup server cluster running multiple LTO tape drives myself.
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Fons Baerken

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Re: some tools I found in my room
« Reply #34 on: August 24, 2015, 11:49:51 »


Anyone familiar with this contraption and what you can do with it?
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Fons Baerken

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Re: some tools I found in my room
« Reply #35 on: August 25, 2015, 07:50:45 »
Anyone as in noone? ;)
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Bjørn Rørslett

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Re: some tools I found in my room
« Reply #36 on: August 25, 2015, 08:04:42 »
Projection of some kind or a beam splitter? Shine a light into the lens and see if the opaque glass lights up.
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Akira

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Re: some tools I found in my room
« Reply #37 on: August 25, 2015, 08:07:18 »
Camera obscura?
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"The eye is blind if the mind is absent." - Confucius

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Jørgen Ramskov

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Re: some tools I found in my room
« Reply #38 on: August 25, 2015, 14:33:48 »
Frank:
1) I don't understand why you say never store anything on SSD's? Yes, I know there were issues early on with SSD's, but today? I haven't seen any statistics but my hunch is that SSD's are more reliable than HDD's.

2) If I understand you correctly, you say that RAID is something that few people should ever need or use. You are completely correct that RAID can fail in many ways, among them the controller can fail and corrupt the data on your RAID system, in which case you'd simply have redundant, corrupt data. That said, RAID controller failures are much more rare than HDD's. This means you'll have far fewer systems crashing due to disk issues. At least, that is my experience from working in a data center. One issue with RAID systems today is that they take a long time to re-sync because the disks have become so big. Unless you go for enterprise storage systems, the primary way to create bigger storage systems, is RAID. I'm not sure what your suggestion is if you need +10TB storage?

There is of course Samsungs new +15TB SSD: http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2015/08/samsung-unveils-2-5-inch-16tb-ssd-the-worlds-largest-hard-drive/

As for the endurance of SSD's, they are generally performing quite well: https://techreport.com/review/27909/the-ssd-endurance-experiment-theyre-all-dead
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Jørgen Ramskov

Frank Fremerey

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Re: some tools I found in my room
« Reply #39 on: August 25, 2015, 14:46:18 »
Jørgen:

1) I store operating systems and programmes there, sometimes the one big file I am currently editing and its children.

2) My main safety principle is to only have the data "online" I really need currently. Archives and everything else are external  drives mirrored and outsourced to a building on the other end of the city.

One copy I have here sitting on the shelve and 5 free hot plug bays in my workstation. If I need archive files, I sATA hot plug what I need, get it and eject it.

Soooo:

RAID is IMO for people who need large amounts of data ONLINE which is not the case for most photographers

In rare cases, like checking through ALL DRIVES to eliminate obsolete redundancy or integrate files over a huge amount of disks into a new file structure, I can fill all 7 Bays of my Lian Li with drives and have a lot of data online.

Most of my drives are 2TB still, but there are some 3TB and 4TB and still some earlier generation 1TB drives.

Which user scenario do you think of?

Frank
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You are out there. You and your camera. You can shoot or not shoot as you please. Discover the world, Your world. Show it to us. Or we might never see it.

Me: https://youpic.com/photographer/frankfremerey/

Bjørn Rørslett

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Re: some tools I found in my room
« Reply #40 on: August 25, 2015, 15:08:25 »
"RAID is IMO for people who need large amounts of data ONLINE which is not the case for most photographers"

A curious blanket statement. Surely this should be left to each photographer to answer? The average photographer is no photographer.

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Jørgen Ramskov

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Re: some tools I found in my room
« Reply #41 on: August 25, 2015, 15:13:38 »
1) That doesn't explain why you mistrust SSD's?

2) Are you keeping your storage offline to hopefully keep the drives in good shape? You do know that, a lot can also go wrong when you hot plug HDD's?
For me, convenience is king. I'm lazy and I know I will fail at some point and Murphy would make sure I would forget to archive some data right when my laptop crashes. Why should I manually keep a schedule when I know the machine is much better at doing that?
I have my LR catalog on my laptop and it's backed up hourly (or something like that) through Time machine to my NAS. When I import new images, they are stored on my laptop until I have edited them, at which point I move them to the NAS over the network. I have automatic daily local and remote backups of my NAS. I'm of course notified if something fails. Where I honestly do fail, is checking my backup's frequently enough. I do test them once in a while as you should, but probably not often enough.
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Jørgen Ramskov

Bjørn Rørslett

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Re: some tools I found in my room
« Reply #42 on: August 25, 2015, 15:52:42 »
Early SSDs had issues with "stuttering" or untimely demises. Sequential reading might go pretty fast, but randomly writing lots of small files, like an OS does, could slow the drive dramatically.

These days SSD controllers apparently are much improved and much of the early problems sorted or at least brought under better control. Still one should leave a significant part of the drive allocated for over-provisioning to extend the longevity and durability of the SSD. 

Although modern SSDs should be amazingly efficient in withstanding massive write operations over time, it is a worrying fact that the drives might suddenly die when the wear levelling no longer can provide healthy data blocks for writing. Even more worrisome, the read-out capability tends to be intact at the point of drive death, but of no use since the drive throws in its towel completely to become totally bricked.

Perhaps as a safety measure one should replace SSDs with fresh drives on a 3-5 year cycle. One tends to get equal or bigger capacity for less money as well in this scheme.
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rosko

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Re: some tools I found in my room
« Reply #43 on: August 25, 2015, 17:33:38 »
Quote from: Fons Baerken on August 24, 2015, 11:49:51

Anyone familiar with this contraption and what you can do with it?

Kind of measuring device ?

Ancestor of laser spirit level or length ?



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Francis Devrainne

Frank Fremerey

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Re: some tools I found in my room
« Reply #44 on: August 25, 2015, 17:49:32 »
I keep drives offline to not waste energy.

Everbody might keep their dogs in any box.

I do not use more than 10.000 files at a time
and my biggest single drive contains more than
200.000 RAWs

If I summerise my impression of this RAID
 discussion, Bjørn seems to enjoy keeping
his files on RAID systems and killing HDDs.

People are different.
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You are out there. You and your camera. You can shoot or not shoot as you please. Discover the world, Your world. Show it to us. Or we might never see it.

Me: https://youpic.com/photographer/frankfremerey/
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